[Ute]

When we talk about VSS-R at this stage it feels like no new information is coming out about the same at all. Instead, it seems like everyone is just linking any new info that trickles out to old VSS-R info. Put more simply, with the decline/demise of Alpha based vehicles and Omega getting shelved for Caddy it seems more than a little likely that VSS-R as it was initially planned is dead. As in stone cold dead.

Wrong. It gets a more multipurpose and flexible structure than previously thought, and will be spread among the major GM brands (mainly Cadillac and sub-Corvette).

Would you happen to have a link you could share? Did he indicate timing of these VSS-R vehicles?

I think the product plan through to 2025 will just improve. It’s really exciting. Part one of the product portfolio plan was just to catch up with the conventional owners and to be in the segments where the customers were buying. So it’s common knowledge, bringing the little crossover [the XT4], bringing in the XT6, updating the new Escalade—the new one’s going to be absolutely fantastic.

https://www.automobilemag.com/news/johan-de-nysschen-interview-gm-cadillac-autonomy/

He did not say it directly, but you can clearly see it between the lines.

 

[PastorChevyGuy]

If the XT-line are all place holders, why not make them the best damn place holders ever? Give them better engine options, go all out on the interior and styling. Make people ask "How could they make these better?" then WHAM them with the next gen on VSS-R. For engines, the XT4 should have the 2.0t and 2.7t, the XT5 the 2.7t and 3.0t and the XT6 should get the 3.6t as the standard and only engine.

 

[sdotjeezy]

If the XT-line are all place holders, why not make them the best damn place holders ever? Give them better engine options, go all out on the interior and styling. Make people ask "How could they make these better?" then WHAM them with the next gen on VSS-R. For engines, the XT4 should have the 2.0t and 2.7t, the XT5 the 2.7t and 3.0t and the XT6 should get the 3.6t as the standard and only engine.

All of those especially the 3.6TT in the XT6 are pipe dreams...there isn't a single trans-axle available to GM today that can handle those levels of power. There are some rumblings of issues w/ the 3.6/9sp combo as is. those motors will tear the 9sp to shreds.

Also, none of those engines are stamped for FWD applications, the hardpoints between a FWD and RWD mounted engine are completely different. Just because a motor is in GM's inventory doesn't necessarily mean it can be used in whatever application they want it to be.

 

[CMiatso DaBang]

The Cadillac badge is worth $15K

actually it is. It really is. Every argument people make contrary to it.. or comparing it to the Enclave at Buick.. is the same argument one has probably defended in an Escalade vs Denali argument. People buy badges. I've seen it and so have U. Hell.. somethings are simply name. I've been looking at more Harleys like the Breakout and Vrod.. they are $7-10K more than any of their competition.. just because of the Life that is Harley. Do U really think anything from Audi is really worth the difference in price over a VW? I've yet to see anything. The Q7 vs Tuarehg(whatever, I'm not even gonna try) is an example. GM(and Ford sometimes) is the only company I know of that has a multi brand/platform share strategy that gets ridiculed like SDotJeezy pushes.. and they do more outward differentiation than any of them. YES!!! They definitely need to just go with their own new engine proposition of Forced Induction on almost everything cars.. but the 3.6L is not a bad engine in any sense of the word.

 

[sdotjeezy]

actually it is. It really is. Every argument people make contrary to it.. or comparing it to the Enclave at Buick.. is the same argument one has probably defended in an Escalade vs Denali argument. People buy badges. I've seen it and so have U. Hell.. somethings are simply name. I've been looking at more Harleys like the Breakout and Vrod.. they are $7-10K more than any of their competition.. just because of the Life that is Harley. Do U really think anything from Audi is really worth the difference in price over a VW? I've yet to see anything. The Q7 vs Tuarehg(whatever, I'm not even gonna try) is an example. GM(and Ford sometimes) is the only company I know of that has a multi brand/platform share strategy that gets ridiculed like SDotJeezy pushes.. and they do more outward differentiation than any of them. YES!!! They definitely need to just go with their own new engine proposition of Forced Induction on almost everything cars.. but the 3.6L is not a bad engine in any sense of the word.

Maybe it is...maybe it isn't...IMO I just do not think a Caddy badge alone can move this thing. There's too much competition in the segment to just slap a badge on a meh-mobile and demand a higher price just because. People are going to want content to go w/ it...that is the point that is being missed. The XT6 just doesn't have the content, or the "IT" factor. Hell I'd get a Palisade Limited and pocket $20 grand all day every day before I buy a XT6.

6 years ago on Lambda, maybe this could've moved some units...today w/ all the options available in the market, nope...but maybe buyers will scoop them up when they're in the mid/high 40s.

 

[CMiatso DaBang]

Maybe it is...maybe it isn't...IMO I just do not think a Caddy badge alone can move this thing. There's too much competition in the segment to just slap a badge on a meh-mobile and demand a higher price just because. People are going to want content to go w/ it...that is the point that is being missed. The XT6 just doesn't have the content, or the "IT" factor. Hell I'd get a Palisade Limited and pocket $20 grand all day every day before I buy a XT6.

6 years ago on Lambda, maybe this could've moved some units...today w/ all the options available in the market, nope...but maybe buyers will scoop them up when they're in the mid/high 40s.

We'll see. Same thing could have been said about a buyer purchasing an SRX.. XT5 or whatever versus an Equinox IF they didn;t read up on the platforms and just went on the size similarities vs the Chevy. Hell.. some people could say to U and your wife that U guys were crazy getting an Enclave when U could have gotten a Traverse Premier. Just saying.

 

[sdotjeezy]

We'll see. Same thing could have been said about a buyer purchasing an SRX.. XT5 or whatever versus an Equinox IF they didn;t read up on the platforms and just went on the size similarities vs the Chevy. Hell.. some people could say to U and your wife that U guys were crazy getting an Enclave when U could have gotten a Traverse Premier. Just saying.

Ah...that's the kicker, the Traverse Premier was actually more Expensive than the Enclave I ended up buying. Funny thing is I actually would've probably gone for the Traverse had the lower models not looked so damn cheap, my thing is if I'm going to pay 40K for something it better look like I paid 50 not 25. The Enclave on the other hand looks the same regardless of trim, if you looked at my Essence, you'd think it were a Premium.

 

[Ute]

If the XT-line are all place holders, why not make them the best damn place holders ever? Give them better engine options, go all out on the interior and styling. Make people ask "How could they make these better?" then WHAM them with the next gen on VSS-R. For engines, the XT4 should have the 2.0t and 2.7t, the XT5 the 2.7t and 3.0t and the XT6 should get the 3.6t as the standard and only engine.

Well, XT4 will get 2.7T, refresh XT5 will get 2.0T. As for the XT6, I am not sure that 90% of buyers need such power for typical family CUV.

 

[ral1960]

They could use the XTS Vsport engine/trans, though it is an older version of the 3.6.

I wonder how well the XT6 will do in the mountains with 6 adults and luggage or a trailer. Our expectations are so different from those of 20 years ago, or even 10.

 

[Vagon11]

They could use the XTS Vsport engine/trans, though it is an older version of the 3.6.

I wonder how well the XT6 will do in the mountains with 6 adults and luggage or a trailer. Our expectations are so different from those of 20 years ago, or even 10.

Yes, 20 years ago you had less power. A 2000 Tahoe maxed out around 275hp with a 4sp tranny. The 3.6 in the lighter XT6 has 300.

 

[megeebee]

Well, XT4 will get 2.7T, refresh XT5 will get 2.0T. As for the XT6, I am not sure that 90% of buyers need such power for typical family CUV.

XT6 Chief Engineer John Plonka speaks here. Starts at 2:16. He implies other drivetrains for the XT6 @15:20 and @ 27:00 mentioning a "possible" V Series. The entire interview goes about a half-hour. Recorded in Mid-February.

http://www.autoline.tv/journal/?p=59783

 

[sdotjeezy]

XT6 Chief Engineer John Plonka speaks here. Starts at 2:16. He implies other drivetrains for the XT6 @15:20 and @ 27:00 mentioning a "possible" V Series. The entire interview goes about a half-hour. Recorded in Mid-February.

http://www.autoline.tv/journal/?p=59783

How about they get SuperCruise rolled out first like MB claimed would be available at launch. At least that would sprinkle some sugar on that bitter $70k turd sandwich they're trying to serve up. Deliver on what you promised first, then worry about hypothetical non-performance, performance, people movers.

Why would you want a V XT6 anyway, there is nothing performance oriented about how a C1XX handles. My recommendation, go back to the drawing board, figure out how to get Alpha to accommodate a taller cabin then come back in a couple years w/ a true XT6. If it sounds like I'm being harsh, just wait until the press gets their hands on one...if they even bother.

 

[Ute]

How about they get SuperCruise rolled out first like MB claimed would be available at launch.

Escalade will get Super Cruise 2.0 at launch.

My recommendation, go back to the drawing board, figure out how to get Alpha to accommodate a taller cabin then come back in a couple years w/ a true XT6.

Alpha is done. CT4 was the last Cadillac to adopt this architecture.

 

[megeebee]

Why would you want a V XT6 anyway, there is nothing performance oriented about how a C1XX handles. My recommendation, go back to the drawing board, figure out how to get Alpha to accommodate a taller cabin then come back in a couple years w/ a true XT6. If it sounds like I'm being harsh, just wait until the press gets their hands on one...if they even bother.

Did you watch the interview?

 

[sdotjeezy]

Did you watch the interview?

Ok....I sat through the entire interview just for grins...at the 15 min mark, he says "they looked at the heart of the segment and the V6 is right there w/ the rest of the segment"...no mention of other powertrains. My take...pretty much the 3.6 is it.

At the 27 min mark he says "V series would be something interesting to work on, we don't have anything to announce".

Anyway, that was a lotta words and a long interview to say, we took a GMC Acadia and slapped some Escala design cues on it and we're not really competing with all those vehicles that are better than it...just one vehicle that is better than it...the Q7.

On SuperCruise "not something we're doing for 2020" and kinda trailed off like its something that they're ultimately not going to do.

 

[megeebee]

Ok....I sat through the entire interview just for grins...at the 15 min mark, he says "they looked at the heart of the segment and the V6 is right there w/ the rest of the segment"...no mention of other powertrains. My take...pretty much the 3.6 is it.

At the 27 min mark he says "V series would be something interesting to work on, we don't have anything to announce".

Anyway, that was a lotta words and a long interview to say, we took a GMC Acadia and slapped some Escala design cues on it and we're not really competing with all those vehicles that are better than it...just one vehicle that is better than it...the Q7.

On SuperCruise "not something we're doing for 2020" and kinda trailed off like its something that they're ultimately not going to do.

Ha! I just wanted to waste a half hour of your time and you took the bait.

 

[sdotjeezy]

Ha! I just wanted to waste a half hour of your time and you took the bait.

Not as funny as you think...you had to have watched it first. And on top of that, I don't think it was a trap, you can take that cop out but IMO you posted something, got called on the BS posted, then when called on it...take the cop out. Whatever helps you sleep at night dude.

Escalade will get Super Cruise 2.0 at launch.

I'm talking about Mary Barra's announcement that SC was going to be available on the XT6 @ launch, which from the interview..isn't happening for MY2020 and probably not going to ever happen, at least not in this generation.

Alpha is done. CT4 was the last Cadillac to adopt this architecture.

Very much aware of that as well...VSS-R is the new thing that may or may not happen. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if VSS-R turns out to be a CUV capable revision of the Alpha/Omega platforms under some sort of VSS-R and VSS-R(L?) subsets.

 

[Ute]

I'm talking about Mary Barra's announcement that SC was going to be available on the XT6 @ launch, which from the interview..isn't happening for MY2020 and probably not going to ever happen, at least not in this generation.

What does the XT6? I'm talking about Escalade as the Cadillac flagship SUV, which will get the Supercruise 2.0 at launch.

VSS-R is the new thing that may or may not happen. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if VSS-R turns out to be a CUV capable revision of the Alpha/Omega platforms under some sort of VSS-R and VSS-R(L?) subsets.

It will happen. Alpha is dead and Omega (as we know) too. VSS is a future clean sheet structure , which is much more complex and versatile.

 

[sdotjeezy]

What does the XT6? I'm talking about Escalade as the Cadillac flagship SUV, which will get the Supercruise 2.0 at launch.

You are aware that the topic of this entire thread is the XT6? I'll give you benefit of the doubt to the extent because English is likely not your first language but following the context of a conversation should be universal.

How the conversation is going so far:
Everyone else: ... ... XT6
Me: XT6 won't have supercruise
You: Escalade will have supercruise 2.0
Me: We're talking about the XT6
You: What does the XT6 have to do with this...I'm talking about the Escalade.

doesn't make sense right?

It will happen. Alpha is dead and Omega (as we know) too. VSS is a future clean sheet structure , which is much more complex and versatile.

The more financially responsible thing is take Alpha and Omega and expand their versatility, but knowing GM and their penchant for un-necessarily throwing away money on new platforms, you're right...a clean sheet is probably what they're going to do.

 

[Ute]

You are aware that the topic of this entire thread is the XT6? I'll give you benefit of the doubt to the extent because English is likely not your first language but following the context of a conversation should be universal.

They probably want to use Super Cruise 2.0 (true 3 Level) on all models, include XT4, instead of the current version of the system. This is what I meant.

The more financially responsible thing is take Alpha and Omega and expand their versatility, but knowing GM and their penchant for un-necessarily throwing away money on new platforms, you're right...a clean sheet is probably what they're going to do.

As far as I know, Alpha and Omega have multiple limitations on the electrical /electronic part, in a rigid structure (especially important for SUV) etc. In addition, GM switches to a all new electric platform (Global B) instead current A, therefore, it is much easier and cheaper to design a new architecture instead of update an outdated Alpha and an aging Omega. Also VSS platforms will be compatible with BEV3 for electric vehicles.