[VMax2007]

Your options for cheap V6 sedan will shrink to very few makes (if any) very soon.

I doubt it, if there is a demand for it, someone will build it.

If necessary, I will spend more to get the V6.

 

[krusshall]

I doubt it, if there is a demand for it, someone will build it.

If necessary, I will spend more to get the V6.

They are going away slowly but surely from mainstream midsize cars. The Altima is the latest casualty. The Fusion will probably be next. You will have to step up to the next class to get one: Lacrosse, Taurus, Azera, Maxima, Avalon (well Toyota is the exception as they still offer the V6 Camry). We'll see what Honda does with their next Accord. The Passat still has it as well.

 

[Orbit Orange]

As always a quality post, from someone not so obtuse as to think that because GM closed Pontiac that they owe Pontiac customers a brand of their own.

Did I say GM owes me a brand of my own? Quit putting words in my mouth (or keyboard in this case). I like being obtuse as well. Much better than being squarish. If GM doesn't produce something I want, I'll go elsewhere, end of story. And again, that doesn't help GM in the long run as I have many new car purchases left (knock on wood) and a lot of influence over my sons brand of choice in the future as well. You could always put me on your ignore list if my posts are so "un"quality. I've got a few on mine and there is always room for more.

 

[VMax2007]

They are going away slowly but surely from mainstream midsize cars. The Altima is the latest casualty. The Fusion will probably be next. You will have to step up to the next class to get one: Lacrosse, Taurus, Azera, Maxima, Avalon (well Toyota is the exception as they still offer the V6 Camry). We'll see what Honda does with their next Accord. The Passat still has it as well.

Maybe...for now. Just like they did in the 70's. History has a way of repeating itself.

I have yet to see a 4-banger (NA or FI) get much better fuel economy than a V6 in a mid-size car (sometimes worse, as in the case of the 2.0T compared to my 271hp 3.5 V6 or the LFX 3.6L V6). The only time a 4-banger gets much better fuel economy is in a little tiny econobox. It's basic physics.

 

[schmallz]

I said how many SPORTS SEDANS have that kind of power for that kind of money. And there is more to a car than hp. The Camaro is affordable in LS form because its sparsely equipped. The Regal GS has more features standard than the Camaro has with all the options. What camaro customers expect and what potential GS customers expect are two different things.

Camaro customers are looking for pure performance, where Regal GS customers are not.

This thing with the new 3.6L V6 would be a much better sports sedan than the Regal GS could ever hope to be. Pure performance, no excess Navigation or heavy power seats or anything, a true sports sedan.

20k for the 2.5L I4
26k for the 3.6 V6
32k for the TT V6.

 

[Break80]

I'm with nsap...If the base ATS does come in at $30-$35k, and with all the hype being a 3series fighter..it sure as h-e-double hockey sticks better be sub 6.0 0-60..I'd buy that

 

[Envoy4Life]

I'm with nsap...If the base ATS does come in at $30-$35k, and with all the hype being a 3series fighter..it sure as h-e-double hockey sticks better be sub 6.0 0-60..I'd buy that

Depends on weight. It's supposed to come in around 3700 lbs. If this new 2.0T can avoid turbo lag, it may be possible!

 

[ledfoot73]

I have to contend that the GS versus the 2012 328i is a valid comparison. Since the GS is marketed as a sport sedan it will have to face competition in this segment. If it was a GL and marketed as a luxury sedan it might get a bit more of a break as it seems to put more emphasis on its luxury features than the drivetrain. As C&D test vehicle the GS with the performance tire option came in at 38,750. The 328i is a nicely equipped vehicle that seems to place more weight on it's performance features. With the M sport package, power seats, xenon headlights, 10 speaker stereo etc. it comes in at $40,545. $1795 more than the GS. What it may lack in some of the baubles it more than makes up for with it's increase in acceleration, markedly better fuel economy and definitely the rwd platform that it is based on. If you want the all wheel drive option that would be another $1700. Can't get that on the GS. Want the 8 speed transmission instead of the manual or 6 speed automatic it adds another $1375, add another $100 for the sport steering wheel with paddle shifters, can't get the 8speed or paddle shifters on the GS. I think that if you are looking for more of a luxury sedan the GS is a great option, but if you are looking for a performance sport sedan with amazing fuel economy, the 2012 328i with the M sport package and manual transmission would be my choice at $1795 more than the $38,750 GS that C&D tested. For $3170 more than the GS you get this package with the paddle shifters and 8speed. By comparison, the Volvo that C&D used for a comparison with the GS came in at over $46K. I think that a magazine comparison of the 328i and the GS in the future is definitely not an unlikely proposition.

 

[germeezy1]

Did I say GM owes me a brand of my own? Quit putting words in my mouth (or keyboard in this case). I like being obtuse as well. Much better than being squarish. If GM doesn't produce something I want, I'll go elsewhere, end of story. And again, that doesn't help GM in the long run as I have many new car purchases left (knock on wood) and a lot of influence over my sons brand of choice in the future as well. You could always put me on your ignore list if my posts are so "un"quality. I've got a few on mine and there is always room for more.

I was not talking directly to you , as I previously noted your posts are typically quality.

I have to contend that the GS versus the 2012 328i is a valid comparison. Since the GS is marketed as a sport sedan it will have to face competition in this segment. If it was a GL and marketed as a luxury sedan it might get a bit more of a break as it seems to put more emphasis on its luxury features than the drivetrain. As C&D test vehicle the GS with the performance tire option came in at 38,750. The 328i is a nicely equipped vehicle that seems to place more weight on it's performance features. With the M sport package, power seats, xenon headlights, 10 speaker stereo etc. it comes in at $40,545. $1795 more than the GS. What it may lack in some of the baubles it more than makes up for with it's increase in acceleration, markedly better fuel economy and definitely the rwd platform that it is based on. If you want the all wheel drive option that would be another $1700. Can't get that on the GS. Want the 8 speed transmission instead of the manual or 6 speed automatic it adds another $1375, add another $100 for the sport steering wheel with paddle shifters, can't get the 8speed or paddle shifters on the GS. I think that if you are looking for more of a luxury sedan the GS is a great option, but if you are looking for a performance sport sedan with amazing fuel economy, the 2012 328i with the M sport package and manual transmission would be my choice at $1795 more than the $38,750 GS that C&D tested. For $3170 more than the GS you get this package with the paddle shifters and 8speed. By comparison, the Volvo that C&D used for a comparison with the GS came in at over $46K. I think that a magazine comparison of the 328i and the GS in the future is definitely not an unlikely proposition.

You do realize that the car you built is an E90 328i with the N52 6 cylinder right? Keep in mind the F30 3 series with the N20 2.0T actually starts over a $1,000 higher than the current gen car you just built.

 

[krusshall]

I have to contend that the GS versus the 2012 328i is a valid comparison. Since the GS is marketed as a sport sedan it will have to face competition in this segment. If it was a GL and marketed as a luxury sedan it might get a bit more of a break as it seems to put more emphasis on its luxury features than the drivetrain. As C&D test vehicle the GS with the performance tire option came in at 38,750. The 328i is a nicely equipped vehicle that seems to place more weight on it's performance features. With the M sport package, power seats, xenon headlights, 10 speaker stereo etc. it comes in at $40,545. $1795 more than the GS. What it may lack in some of the baubles it more than makes up for with it's increase in acceleration, markedly better fuel economy and definitely the rwd platform that it is based on. If you want the all wheel drive option that would be another $1700. Can't get that on the GS. Want the 8 speed transmission instead of the manual or 6 speed automatic it adds another $1375, add another $100 for the sport steering wheel with paddle shifters, can't get the 8speed or paddle shifters on the GS. I think that if you are looking for more of a luxury sedan the GS is a great option, but if you are looking for a performance sport sedan with amazing fuel economy, the 2012 328i with the M sport package and manual transmission would be my choice at $1795 more than the $38,750 GS that C&D tested. For $3170 more than the GS you get this package with the paddle shifters and 8speed. By comparison, the Volvo that C&D used for a comparison with the GS came in at over $46K. I think that a magazine comparison of the 328i and the GS in the future is definitely not an unlikely proposition.

You are conveniently picking and choosing options that minimize the price differential and neglect making an apples to apples comparison.

 

[germeezy1]

You are conveniently picking and choosing options that minimize the price differential and neglect making an apples to apples comparison.

On a car that does not have the ability to be built on BMW's website as we speak, in other words skewing the argument in the direction of not being truthful.

 

[1487]

Camaro customers are looking for pure performance, where Regal GS customers are not.

View attachment 9991
This thing with the new 3.6L V6 would be a much better sports sedan than the Regal GS could ever hope to be. Pure performance, no excess Navigation or heavy power seats or anything, a true sports sedan.

20k for the 2.5L I4
26k for the 3.6 V6
32k for the TT V6.

in 2011, how many $30k+ sports sedans dont have things like power seats and navigation? One of the flaws of the G8 was its lack of luxury kit.

 

[1487]

I have to contend that the GS versus the 2012 328i is a valid comparison. Since the GS is marketed as a sport sedan it will have to face competition in this segment. If it was a GL and marketed as a luxury sedan it might get a bit more of a break as it seems to put more emphasis on its luxury features than the drivetrain. As C&D test vehicle the GS with the performance tire option came in at 38,750. The 328i is a nicely equipped vehicle that seems to place more weight on it's performance features. With the M sport package, power seats, xenon headlights, 10 speaker stereo etc. it comes in at $40,545. $1795 more than the GS. What it may lack in some of the baubles it more than makes up for with it's increase in acceleration, markedly better fuel economy and definitely the rwd platform that it is based on. If you want the all wheel drive option that would be another $1700. Can't get that on the GS. Want the 8 speed transmission instead of the manual or 6 speed automatic it adds another $1375, add another $100 for the sport steering wheel with paddle shifters, can't get the 8speed or paddle shifters on the GS. I think that if you are looking for more of a luxury sedan the GS is a great option, but if you are looking for a performance sport sedan with amazing fuel economy, the 2012 328i with the M sport package and manual transmission would be my choice at $1795 more than the $38,750 GS that C&D tested. For $3170 more than the GS you get this package with the paddle shifters and 8speed. By comparison, the Volvo that C&D used for a comparison with the GS came in at over $46K. I think that a magazine comparison of the 328i and the GS in the future is definitely not an unlikely proposition.

Why would you compare loaded up GS with a less than loaded 328i and then say the price gap is only $1800? If you dont care about options just compare the base GS at $35k to the 328i you priced- the gap is $5000, not $1800 and even then the GS has more stuff than the 3 series. The new model will be even more expensive. The base price released by BMW means nothing- wait until we see the options. I predict at least a $10k premium for a well equipped 328i. In my earlier post I priced a 328i as closesly as possible to the $38K GS and came up with $48k.

 

[tripowergto]

since GM didnt break out GT sales figures and WONT break out GS sales figures you will never know. You can guess all you want however.

It turns out quite a few more of us purchased G8's, GTO's & Solstice's then just the exalted 12.

Total 04-06 GTO sales = 40808
Total 08.5-09 G8 sales = 38449
Total 05-09 Solstice sales = 65,724(+34,414 Sky's)

Those sales figures en-total 144,981 high quality and loyal Pontiac sales that GM walked away from without any similar replacement except for the new Camaro.

The G8 GT sales breakdown is also readily available @ G8board.com so I don't have to "guess".

08.5 G8 sales:
V6 = 5,902
GT = 6,143

09 G8 sales:
V6 = 8,089
GT = 16,486
GXP = 1829

Total GT/GXP(both V8, all $30k+ w/most well over) sales over 1-1/2 model years = 20,808. While GM may never share any GS sales figures outside of total Regal sales until well after the fact, I fail to believe they will sell anywhere near the # of 09 G8 GT's in any given model year.

Resale value of all G8's have held up exceptionally well. It has proven to be a wise performance purchase for all those that took the leap. It's an AWESOME ride!!

 

[Orbit Orange]

Resale value of all G8's have held up exceptionally well. It has proven to be a wise performance purchase for all those that took the leap. It's an AWESOME ride!!

Ain't that the truth. My G8GT is actually worth more than I owe on it. I took the 0% for 60 months. Theorhetically I could sell it or trade it and be UP on my money. That was not the case with either my GP GTP or the GTO. Maybe that is why GM doesn't want a Zeta here yet, as they would be paying we G8 owners to trade in. ???

I was not talking directly to you , as I previously noted your posts are typically quality.

Understood, my apologies at the offense. Forum discussions are difficult to tell what is aimed at who many times. I still don't mind being obtuse though.

 

[ledfoot73]

On a car that does not have the ability to be built on BMW's website as we speak, in other words skewing the argument in the direction of not being truthful.

I used the leftlane news new car price guide for the 2012 BMW 328i options. They did not have the pricing for the base msrp so I used the amount that C&D listed. In the first drive reviews they have stated that the new 4 cylinder will replace the 6 in the 328i. The Msport package adds some really nice interior/exterior upgrades with performance wheels and tires. The car was priced with power seats. This car is apparently quite an improvement over the 2011 328i. Like I said if you are looking for a sport sedan in this price range the car optioned this way makes a compelling rwd alternative and you would be trading performance features for some of the luxury options in the GS. If you look at the options and standard features with this package as I listed it you will see that it is really a nice vehicle that is hardly austere, but it does lack the nav feature. If you want to trade luxury for performance and fuel economy the GS is a compelling package, just don't order it without the super sticky Pirelli's unless you really just don"t care. If I were cross shopping these 2 vehicles i would go with the rwd BMW just as I priced it over the GS because I prefer a nicely optioned rwd platform with increased performance in a sport sedan versus the emphasis of more luxury over performance. The 2012 328i is supposed to be quite an improvement over the 2011 model. That being said, I'm not particularly a BMW fan and when I bought my last "family sedan" cross shopped the SRT8 Charger versus Ford's Shelby. I went with the Shelby, the kids can always squeeze in the back and there are no dangerous extra back doors for them to throw open as we fly down the highway "we do have a Tahoe also".

 

[schmallz]

in 2011, how many $30k+ sports sedans dont have things like power seats and navigation? One of the flaws of the G8 was its lack of luxury kit.

Since when do sports cars, or sports sedans require luxury?

The G8 was never intended to be "luxurious", it would have encroached on the STS in terms of price and pecking order if it did.

Australia can get away with the luxury Zetas there because there are no Cadillac's to interfere with.

 

[ledfoot73]

Why would you compare loaded up GS with a less than loaded 328i and then say the price gap is only $1800? If you dont care about options just compare the base GS at $35k to the 328i you priced- the gap is $5000, not $1800 and even then the GS has more stuff than the 3 series. The new model will be even more expensive. The base price released by BMW means nothing- wait until we see the options. I predict at least a $10k premium for a well equipped 328i. In my earlier post I priced a 328i as closesly as possible to the $38K GS and came up with $48k.

Because if you priced the GS at it's base price you would lose the Pirelli tire option which accounts for much of the braking and handling potential of the car. You would really start to lose the sport in the GS. I figured the BMW with the optional performance wheels and tires also. I think that if luxury over performance potential is what you are looking for, this is he way to go. If you value performance over luxury features the 2012 328i offers a little different take.

 

[Amphibian]

Those sales figures en-total 144,981 high quality and loyal Pontiac sales that GM walked away from without any similar replacement except for the new Camaro.

"High quality and loyal Pontiac sales" or made up of that and people who just felt the Pontiac was better than its competition (which when we compare a GTO to the Mustang at the time or G8 to the Charger is not unreasonable at all)?

 

[1487]

It turns out quite a few more of us purchased G8's, GTO's & Solstice's then just the exalted 12.

Total 04-06 GTO sales = 40808
Total 08.5-09 G8 sales = 38449
Total 05-09 Solstice sales = 65,724(+34,414 Sky's)

Those sales figures en-total 144,981 high quality and loyal Pontiac sales that GM walked away from without any similar replacement except for the new Camaro.

The G8 GT sales breakdown is also readily available @ G8board.com so I don't have to "guess".

08.5 G8 sales:
V6 = 5,902
GT = 6,143

09 G8 sales:
V6 = 8,089
GT = 16,486
GXP = 1829

Total GT/GXP(both V8, all $30k+ w/most well over) sales over 1-1/2 model years = 20,808. While GM may never share any GS sales figures outside of total Regal sales until well after the fact, I fail to believe they will sell anywhere near the # of 09 G8 GT's in any given model year.

Resale value of all G8's have held up exceptionally well. It has proven to be a wise performance purchase for all those that took the leap. It's an AWESOME ride!!

The GS may not outsell the GT. One reason for that? The regal has 4 powertrain choices vs 2 for the G8 when it was launched and 3 in its final year. Either way it doesnt really matter since the Regal isnt a G8 replacement.