[germeezy1]

Do I win an award, because I accurately predicted within a 3 tenths of a second window exactly what this car would perform like. Where are all the naysayers that swore on every deity that this car would only do 0-60 in 6.7 seconds?

 

[germeezy1]

The problem with all Buick bashers is their chronic allergy to tri-shield badge, not the package that GS delivered. Any common sense would suggest that was the limit for current 2.0T design and what was accomplished with GS 100%. Knowing how regular 220 HP turbo performs on daily basis I can imagine how good GS may be if C&D and one of its grumpiest columnist had to admit that Buick did a good job on this one. Back in a days C&D managed to squeeze 6.8 sec. 0-60 with 220 HP turbo with the stick and 6.2 sec for GS was not a shocker for me.

You were one of the few with an innate understanding of how this car would perform, however I no longer see many of the naysayers posting in the Regal threads in disgust.

 

[germeezy1]

I'm very interested to see what the tuner market will have available for this car.

Trifecta Performance is already working on a tune for this car, also like most vehicles with forced induction an ECU tune , induction modifications and exhaust will add performance.

 

[germeezy1]

I like the overall packaging of the GS but feel it is underpowered & overpriced for its older 2.0T engine and lacks any actual exterior color options, only shades of black, white or beige. Had this car been offered with the 323HP 3.6L 6-speed combo at slightly less cost I would have seriously considered it over my 2SS Camaro.

When did you have a chance to drive one, and how was the ride/ handling balance in comparison to your car?

After 21 consecutive month over month sales increases, Buick still fails to sell HALF of what Pontiac sold even after its demise was announced. The new Buick's are nice but too overpriced to woo in many Pontiac owners, myself included.

BUICK IS NOT CHASING PONTIAC CUSTOMERS, THEY ARE A NEAR LUXURY BRAND THAT IS TO SOME CONSIDERED AN ENTRY LUXURY BRAND IN THE MOLD OF SAAB , VOLVO OR ACURA.

I think a large part of the source of the great Regal debate is that some want to put the Regal GS in the same performance category as the Pontiac G8 GXP and even (as I have read) the great Cadillac CTS-V. I really do not think GM's intention is to put the GS in the same category. That is not the purpose of the Regal GS. The purpose is to lure in a more sophisticated buyer who is looking for a bit of performance and style, while not being too in-your-face, flashy. As a Buick Regal owner and a person who takes his Regal to his selling Buick dealer for service, I receive about four times a year the Buick B Magazine. If you have ever read this magazine or received an electronic copy via email, you will see the type of consumer GM is targeting with the current line of Buicks. Each "model" (no, I don't mean model of car) depicted in the magazine looks like a young, professional, urbanite, who is more into style and technology than they are serious performance one would receive from a RWD Pontiac GXP, BMW M3, or a Cadillac CTS-V. Such a buyer is probably not into blowing the doors off the V6 Camry sitting next to them at a traffic light, but more into the style of the automobile and the gadgets that come with the automobile. I imagine some Regal GS owners will consider themselves "car" guys who dabble in performance... a little. They are most likely not going to be the hard-core performance enthusiast.

Just my opinions.

No people don't know how to read, or are having a bout of feigned illiteracy. Buick is about inclusive luxury, they are not positioned or planned to replace Pontiac....GM already has a volume brand in the absence of Pontiac.

QFT



QFT.



I don't care who you are, I'll be frank and earnest as well, when I hear Hollywood "famous" I think pompous overpaid actor and I tend to ignore anything spewn from their mouths. I'll take a "salt-of-the-earth" Pontiac owner as a friend over a Hollywood type any day of the week. If you want to talk cars, talk cars and drop the air of self-importance. Say what you drive, don't beat around the bush. No one here cares who you are, at least no one that isn't some sycophantic toadie.

Back to the heart of your post though.....

You never addressed what the GTO, Firebird, G8, G5/G6 coupe and Solstice owners buy as a direct replacement from Buick. That's because there aren't any. I won't even address some of the other garbage Pontiac put out as it was nothing but filler. So again Buick has ONE, I say ONE vehicle that overlaps SOME former Pontiac owners wants. That doesn't make it a wholesale replacement. Its great you like the Regal, its not and will never be a replacement for an entire division.

Your posts are usually fairly good, but this one comes across as a crazed angry at GM Pontiac owner. Buick will never and has never in its storied history been positioned or placed to be Pontiac. Buick made more of a gentlemans hotrod compared to Pontiac and there far more overt offerings.

Buick was profitable prior to the bankruptcy. I assume we can thank the Enclave and Lucerne for that.

Pontiac, on the other hand, was not.

As usual, a very good and concise TRUTH courtesy of those who are in the know.

They said they bench-marked the handling of the G8 GXP with regards to the concept's handling. There was no discussion of performance vs. G8 GXP.

I personally know the guy who said that, he is legit. I'd also argue that the handling aspect of the GS does follow the G8 very closely, if not a little better. I don't notice the weight of the GS like I do the G8.

Actually, that guy (Jim Federico) is probably the reason Buick is doing so well. He has become sort of the "godfather of Buick," cutting through the typical GM BS and making decisions off of his vision of the brand. GM needs more of him.

Buick has done a phenomenal job, and that was reinforced when I opened up one of my Automobile editorials. Inside was a comparison test between a Volvo S60 and a Regal GS. I know most of you don't do marketing for a livelihood but for Buick to be considered by many to be an entry luxury brand this soon after their renaissance is nothing short of miraculous!

No, but the GS is more of a performance car than any modern day Pontiac outside of the G8 and GTO. I think Buick is aware that they are not covering the entire Pontiac base yet. Rome wasn't built in a day and neither is the new Buick brand. Between the Z2xx Chevrolet and a future Buick...I think those of us that own a RWD Pontiac will have something to turn to.

Though me personally...I'm probably swapping the G8 for an ATS next year. I have a 2012 CTS-V right now from the press fleet...I'd sell body parts for that car.





You'd be surprised. It's a very, very polished handler.

That can't be true because its FWD , and although I have not driven one I am far more of an expert on how it drives than you who has. / sarcasm

Thats so true. Looking back i can now say it was needed.

GM knows the whole story, they have all the data that we don't have. I know then as I know now that it is hard to trust GM due to some of the past decisions, but their is a method to their madness. China market sales make the product better overall so that is is something to be applauded, Buick just made sense as they were already profitable.

 

[germeezy1]

I've test driven a Turbo Regal on two occasions, even wrote up a little review about it on GMI here: http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f21/new-buick-turbo-regal-test-drive-98886/

It doesn't even remotely compare to my near 50/50 balanced G8 GT in handling and the performance factor is incomparable. I just completed a near 500 mile round trip road trip(daughter back to college) since I last posted this morning and the GT's high speed road manners on lousy pavement in maddening Holiday traffic are impeccable.




Then why is Buick incessantly mailing me Regal propaganda? They even gave me $50 to test drive a Regal and they continue to send me electronic copies of B magazine. Clearly Buick marketing is targeting Pontiac owners.

Pray tell could you perhaps jog my memory and tell me if we were conversing about the Regal Turbo or the Regal GS?

 

[germeezy1]

Right. Which is why the more expensive Enclave sold so well in that exact same GFC. Sure.

You also conveniently ignored the following:



THAT'S the GFC argument.



How many tenths was the total lack of refinement worth in the G6 GXP?



Just the opposite. Why would GM need to save the Buick brand here if it wasn't profitable? Why would success in China dictate the need to have the brand here? You have NEVER sufficiently answered that question and it still stands.

We get ZERO products from China. We actually export the Enclave TO THEM. The Regal is a rebadged Opel. The Verano is an Astra with a trunk. If anything, Buick was saved here to add profit potential to GM Europe's thin-margin volume cars.



Good Lord, you're sensitive! How is that an insult to say thay you're in the VAST minority of Pontiac buyers?

There weren't enough "high line" Pontiac buyers to justify keeping the brand. There just weren't. Accept it and move on. Except for the G8 GXP, Pontiac had to give away G8s and Solstices.



Yes, yes, we get it. Your endless muttering on every Buick post about how stupid GM was for cancelling Pontiac instead of Buick to no avail makes you want to take your ball and run home.

If you followed my postings on Pontiac threads, you'll note that I have said repeatedly that I get why Pontiac enthusiasts are upset. But "upset" and "butthurt in every posting" are two different things. You refuse to listen to reason, and no matter what anyone else says...no matter how poignant the arguments for keeping Buick, you robotically parrot the tired, patently false line that "GM kept Buick because of China".

I don't care if bashing Pontiac hurts your feelings or not. Buick gets bashed all the time, too. You're the one who can't see the two sides, I'm afraid. You're the one with a lousy life ahead if you refuse to JUST LET GO. You're the one with your head in the sand about the BILLIONS GM pumped into Pontiac to keep it viable, to reinvent its image. To bring the brand back into relevance. You're the one with your head in the sand whenever someone says Buick was profitable and Pontiac wasn't. You're the one with your head in the sand about how the GFC dictated decision-making for a bankrupt GM under enormous public pressure at the time. And how Pontiac had FAR LESS GOING FOR IT when it came to making GM money at the time than Buick did.

They could have "saved" Pontiac...if they cut it down to a niche brand to save a couple thousand "high line buyers". Then they'd have to PUMP BILLIONS OF DOLLARS THEY DIDN'T HAVE IN 2009 SINCE THEY WERE GOING BANKRUPT into marketing to try to woo conquest buyers who still thought "Aztek" when you said "Pontiac" after 20 years of peddling overstyled Chevys in gobs of plastic cladding.

Like it or not, when it was time to make the tough calls the Enclave showed that Buick had a future in the US. The loss-making, low-volume Solstice and G8 showed that Pontiac didn't.

As always a quality post, from someone not so obtuse as to think that because GM closed Pontiac that they owe Pontiac customers a brand of their own. GM intrinsically knows why they kept Buick and no Pontiac as well as Saturn , and its as you aptly stated due to the fiscal black hole that Pontiac had become.

So after 130 posts we've learned, yet again:

• Buick is not Pontiac
• Regal GS is not a muscle car
• More expensive ($10k+) German sedans are faster
• Camry/Accord/etc V6 are faster if you want to drag race at a green light

:clap:

Humorous, but concise and correct in every way!

1. Good luck finding a $36k 328i
2. The new 3 series comes with only a few option packages and few stand alone features. What does this mean? Expect a 328i equipped like the GS to be WELL over $40k. The BMW is faster and for a premium of $5k you can get better efficiency than the Regal. How long will it take for you to save enough gas to make up for the price premium?
3. Competitors for the GS are CC V6, TSX V6, Maxima, TL, MKZ. Its not hard to come up with a list of competitors. Its only hard for those who want to compare it to RWD German sports sedans costing far more.

Its amazing that so many who proclaim to be luxury car experts, that do not buy in this class at all are so obviously oblivious to the blatant fact that BMW's have few standard features. Also pray tell when do FWD sedans that are loaded at $40k instantly become competitors to the more expensive and one of the top selling luxury cars in the world?

Please spare us the "roughly the same price" argument. The GS comes with 19s, leather, HIDS, premium sound, Brembos, IDC, 12 way heated seats and push button start STANDARD. You CANNOT compare a stripped BMW to the GS and then say the BMW is at "the same price point". No it isnt. Expect to pay at least $42k-$45k for a 328i equipped like the GS. If you look at the 2011 version the 328i is about $5k+ more than the GS with the same kit.

That argument is as obtuse as it is assinine the GS, is a FWD sports sedan in the mold of the TSX its not a direct 3 series competitor in any way especially when it comes to price.

How many sports sedans offer 320hp for $32k? At that price the G25 offers 218hp. But you're right, its only GM coming up short in the hp per dollar department.

BTW, those who think the all new 3 series will be "about the same" as the Regal should price a 2011 328i. I came up with a price of about $48k for a 328i with sport package, heated seats, keyless go, HIDs, HK sound, heated seats, etc. Sorry, they arent close to being the same price. So you can get a GS or you get get a stripped down 328i or you can get a well equipped 328i (when it comes out) for at least 10 grand more.

Finally someone who gets it, and understands that the 3 series is not a direct competitor for the Regal GS. I must say its quite refreshing to observe the postings of someone who understands.

The FWD LFX only makes 260-264lb ft of torque so its down at least 30lb-ft to the 2L turbo. The FWD application doesnt make the hp or torque of the RWD configuration in the CTS/Camaro.

I am sure it has much to do with transaxle limitations, as GM follows this trend with all FWD vs RWD LFX variants.

 

[germeezy1]

Did I say GM owes me a brand of my own? Quit putting words in my mouth (or keyboard in this case). I like being obtuse as well. Much better than being squarish. If GM doesn't produce something I want, I'll go elsewhere, end of story. And again, that doesn't help GM in the long run as I have many new car purchases left (knock on wood) and a lot of influence over my sons brand of choice in the future as well. You could always put me on your ignore list if my posts are so "un"quality. I've got a few on mine and there is always room for more.

I was not talking directly to you , as I previously noted your posts are typically quality.

I have to contend that the GS versus the 2012 328i is a valid comparison. Since the GS is marketed as a sport sedan it will have to face competition in this segment. If it was a GL and marketed as a luxury sedan it might get a bit more of a break as it seems to put more emphasis on its luxury features than the drivetrain. As C&D test vehicle the GS with the performance tire option came in at 38,750. The 328i is a nicely equipped vehicle that seems to place more weight on it's performance features. With the M sport package, power seats, xenon headlights, 10 speaker stereo etc. it comes in at $40,545. $1795 more than the GS. What it may lack in some of the baubles it more than makes up for with it's increase in acceleration, markedly better fuel economy and definitely the rwd platform that it is based on. If you want the all wheel drive option that would be another $1700. Can't get that on the GS. Want the 8 speed transmission instead of the manual or 6 speed automatic it adds another $1375, add another $100 for the sport steering wheel with paddle shifters, can't get the 8speed or paddle shifters on the GS. I think that if you are looking for more of a luxury sedan the GS is a great option, but if you are looking for a performance sport sedan with amazing fuel economy, the 2012 328i with the M sport package and manual transmission would be my choice at $1795 more than the $38,750 GS that C&D tested. For $3170 more than the GS you get this package with the paddle shifters and 8speed. By comparison, the Volvo that C&D used for a comparison with the GS came in at over $46K. I think that a magazine comparison of the 328i and the GS in the future is definitely not an unlikely proposition.

You do realize that the car you built is an E90 328i with the N52 6 cylinder right? Keep in mind the F30 3 series with the N20 2.0T actually starts over a $1,000 higher than the current gen car you just built.

 

[germeezy1]

You are conveniently picking and choosing options that minimize the price differential and neglect making an apples to apples comparison.

On a car that does not have the ability to be built on BMW's website as we speak, in other words skewing the argument in the direction of not being truthful.

 

[germeezy1]

We can lament, and gnash at the teeth for hours about the demise of Pontiac but that will not bring them back. The aforementioned debate about the G8 and the Zeta program is another argument that has been repeated ad naseum so lets not revisit that again either. Also people do not expect their $30k sports sedans to be faster than the Camry, you ever heard of cars such as the G25, IS250, and A4 2.0T?

 

[germeezy1]

The base models like the G25, IS250, 328i, C250 and A4 2.0T are not sports cars...

These are every day commuter/economy cars.

I would say the

G37, Is350, 335i, C360 and S4 are all "sports" cars.

Where the

IS-F, M3, C 63 AMG and RS4 are hardcore performance cars.

None of those are sports cars, or hardcore performance cars they are all considered sports sedans.

It's a 2SS non RS with orange/black leather interior. Leftover 2010 clearance sale with Pontiac owner 'Loyalty' incentives applied.

A little hindsight:

That is definitely a hard bargain to say no to, enjoy the new Camaro!

 

[germeezy1]

I've gone to the Audi and BMW sites and priced them. A desirable model is $50k easy. I put leather and some pretty paint on a 335i and it's up to $45k already. S4 starts at $47k. C350 starts at $44k with leather.

The bottom line is that I suspect that I personally would be happier with the Regal GS, which is essentially a loaded trim at around $35k, rather than a 335i in stripper format at $43k. If I was going to spend $40k+ on a car, I'd probably buy a 328i and put some options on it. And yes, I'd still have that possibility of getting "killed" at the green light by a much cheaper and more pedestrian Camry V6.



It does seem to typically tack on a significant fee with just about everybody else who is making "sports sedans", so I don't know why this Buick would be exempted in this regard.

	base		base	difference
Audi A4 Premium Plus Quattro	$38475	Audi S4 Premium Plus Quattro	$48175	$9700
BMW 328i	$35475	BMW 335i	$42925	$7450
MB C250 Sport	$35675	MB C350	$41450	$5775
Infiniti G25 Journey	$34695	Infiniti G37 Journey	$37095	$2400
Buick Regal Turbo III	$33395	Buick Regal GS	$35310	$1915

Granted, you may get some additional content beyond just a more powerful engine between some of these trim levels selected above. The G37 seems incredibly competitive. The fact still remains that if "go fast" is your number one priority, the 2012 Regal GS isn't and won't ever be your car. Perhaps the ATS-V will satisfy some of these demands a bit better. Just don't be surprised when it costs $10k more than the Regal GS.

Very , very quality post concise but unnervingly correct in every way. The Regal GS for not much more money offers a compelling alternative to the higher priced competition but more notable for what it offers Regal 2.0T buyers.

 

[germeezy1]

The argument I always had, that if they put more power into this car, there would be no need for a Caddy. Also the power that is in it, is not gutless. 6.2; 0-60, mid 14 1/4's, feels and is pretty quick.....certianly enough to kill you good if you loose it.... and enough to put you a length or two at the end of 1320 ft vs a Camary.... it that sort of thing really matters to you.

I suspect many of the folks critisizing the car on here would have a pleasent smile on their face if they drove this car, and considering the content for the price point, the smile would get bigger.

I wonder what would stop this endless arguement on here .... 5.9; 0-60? .... 5.7? Honestly, does a couple tenths make that much of a difference that people on here would pay $5-10K more? Would those same people that would then consider buying this car race at every stop light, or hammer on it constently to feel those extra couple tenths?

Folks this is a 4 door Buick, the people that will buy this are likely middle age upper middle income earners..... perspective is everything. The disdane for this cars performance on here is fuelled buy some passionate car enthusiasts that harken back to the days where staright line was the measure of status and street cred.... again, perspective is everything.

I just don't get the need (or feasibility) for a bigger engine or more power past what is in this vehicle for this price point.

One small edit: If someone is so hell bent on straightline and is upset with the power inthis car but absolutely loves everything else about this car ....get a damn tune put into it, its a Turbo, I suspect you can crank this bad boy up like crazy!!

You are making far too much sense, especially when you realize that the fastest time for the top level non V series CTS is 5.9 0-60 and typical is closer to 6.2 0-60. This car is positioned as a top level Regal and realistically is competition for base engine cars like the TSX, C250, IS250, G25 and A4 its performance is better in many ways than all of these cars in base trim. Nothing else gives you appreciably more performance, better handling and this level of equipment in its class for similar money.

How many people brag about track performance of TSX, A4, S60 or VW CC or low end RWD as C250 Series, 3 Series, IS250/350 or G25/35? They bought those models in almost the same numbers as Regal. That's where Buick Turbo models belong price-wise along with the package that came with it. Why on earth I would spend money on some V6 with potato sack seats that handles like a wedding cake just because has one spec sheet feature better than Regal (0-60 time)? That's like saying Big Mac is better than whole wheat gourmet sandwich because is cheaper and bigger.

Now do you feel the exasperation I feel when people so freely compare cars based on spec sheets, and cars based on price versus other cars outside of their class?

Well ...The Camary doesn't beat the GS in any way, and a fully popped V6 Camary is $32K+. It can't stop handle or out run the GS which is much better equipped than the Camary for under $37K. Not to mention the GS is a far more attractive car ....inside and out. You can't get a Camary with half of the Suspension features, interior features, materials and even looks as you can on the GS, so even fully popped out the Camary is half baked poor mans solution that only compares in a straight line for $5K less. As for your comment about bragging at a water cooler, would like to see the f"n loser that brags about a Camary 0-60 times at a water cooler ..... can someone say "office loser"!

Jokes dude ....don't compare the two.

Its all just a way to discredit the Regal GS, depending on driver and surface the GS is only negligibly slower. In fact due to its mid range torque the Regal will most likely feel faster to the average driver. When the road surface does anything that diverges from the straight ahead, thats where the GS excels in comparison to appliances like the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry. If John Force is your idol, and your nickname is Toretto the Regal GS is not the car for you in fact nothing less than this will do for many of you it seems based on your posts.

I mean its mind boggling that many of the posters decrying the GS and its performance are driving slower cars , its not like anyone would think 14 second 4 doors are the realm of real performance.

 

[germeezy1]

Repeat after me, the Regal GS is intended to be a competitor to entry luxury sedans and offer a loaded sports sedan for less than the competition. This competition includes cars like the 211 hp A4, 201 hp TSX, 218 hp G25 and 204 hp IS250. The Regal GS outperforms all of the aforementioned SPORT sedans and offers a compelling blend of handling, equipment and value that none of its competition does.

If you can not truly get that, than quit posting in this thread and go buy a Top Fuel dragster for your commute the GS is clearly not the car for you.

 

[germeezy1]

I again look at sales numbers. This is how and whether GM decides to keep a car around or not. All the models you mention outsells the Regal models period. All other offers more power.

Perfect, so all the Regal GS needs to do is sell better than its competition? So if the Regal GS is a sales success you don't care if it comes with a 1.4 T as long as it sells in an exemplary fashion?