[spd98]

The 335i would be a great alternative to this vehicle as it's performance is really eye opening. C&D estimated a 4.9 0-60 and a 13.5 quarter mile for a 2011 model. However, with a 40k price it is a few thousand out of the GS league. A much better comparison would be the new 2012 328i at $35,795. C&D first drive of this car led them to estimate a 5.6-5.8 0-60 and a quarter mile time of 14.3-14.5 and thank God at this price it is rwd with a 7000 rpm redline and the new 8speed transmission. The craziest aspect of this car though has to be the fuel economy at 23-24 city and 34-36 highway. They expect the avg fuel economy to come in at about 30. This would be the true competition for the GS in the BMW lineup.

Let me sum this up. the 328i get's better mpg and marginally better performance at roughly the same price point once you add the BMW badge mark up? And let's not forget to mention that all of the BMW's come with maint for what the first 100k miles? I think your proving the point that this car is overpriced and under performing.

 

[Quixote88]

Does anyone commenting here intend to actually purchase a Regal GS? I suspect it won't come close to G8 GT sales figures but should at least be profitable.

I'm about a year away from purchasing a new vehicle, however, the GS is on my short list...

I do know a couple of folks who are at least interested in test driving the Regal GS, including one who owns an '87 GNX (which I've been blessed to have driven multiple times over the past 3 years... It's the second GNX that he's owned.)... All of his other daily driver passenger cars have been Pontiacs over the past 25+ years: 2 or 3 Grand Prixs, 1 Bonneville, 1 GTO, 1 Trans Am...(He also keeps a Yukon or Tahoe in his stable at all times for boat towing duties and poor weather driving)

The sales figures may not be as high as for the G8 GT, but then again, the entry fee for the Regal GS is considerably higher... And as you stated, the Regal GS should prove to be profitable, and that's all that matters at this time for GM.

 

[1487]

The 335i would be a great alternative to this vehicle as it's performance is really eye opening. C&D estimated a 4.9 0-60 and a 13.5 quarter mile for a 2011 model. However, with a 40k price it is a few thousand out of the GS league. A much better comparison would be the new 2012 328i at $35,795. C&D first drive of this car led them to estimate a 5.6-5.8 0-60 and a quarter mile time of 14.3-14.5 and thank God at this price it is rwd with a 7000 rpm redline and the new 8speed transmission. The craziest aspect of this car though has to be the fuel economy at 23-24 city and 34-36 highway. They expect the avg fuel economy to come in at about 30. This would be the true competition for the GS in the BMW lineup.

1. Good luck finding a $36k 328i
2. The new 3 series comes with only a few option packages and few stand alone features. What does this mean? Expect a 328i equipped like the GS to be WELL over $40k. The BMW is faster and for a premium of $5k you can get better efficiency than the Regal. How long will it take for you to save enough gas to make up for the price premium?
3. Competitors for the GS are CC V6, TSX V6, Maxima, TL, MKZ. Its not hard to come up with a list of competitors. Its only hard for those who want to compare it to RWD German sports sedans costing far more.

 

[1487]

Does anyone commenting here intend to actually purchase a Regal GS? I suspect it won't come close to G8 GT sales figures but should at least be profitable.

since GM didnt break out GT sales figures and WONT break out GS sales figures you will never know. You can guess all you want however.

 

[1487]

Let me sum this up. the 328i get's better mpg and marginally better performance at roughly the same price point once you add the BMW badge mark up? And let's not forget to mention that all of the BMW's come with maint for what the first 100k miles? I think your proving the point that this car is overpriced and under performing.

Please spare us the "roughly the same price" argument. The GS comes with 19s, leather, HIDS, premium sound, Brembos, IDC, 12 way heated seats and push button start STANDARD. You CANNOT compare a stripped BMW to the GS and then say the BMW is at "the same price point". No it isnt. Expect to pay at least $42k-$45k for a 328i equipped like the GS. If you look at the 2011 version the 328i is about $5k+ more than the GS with the same kit.

 

[1487]

It just so happens that they were actual competitors in my particular "marketplace". Had the GS offered a nice 320 HP V6 coupe at around the $32k mark I'd be stylin' a new Buick instead of a Camaro but(of course) new GM fails to offer any such option despite its four remaining divisions.

- One of the exalted "12"

How many sports sedans offer 320hp for $32k? At that price the G25 offers 218hp. But you're right, its only GM coming up short in the hp per dollar department.

BTW, those who think the all new 3 series will be "about the same" as the Regal should price a 2011 328i. I came up with a price of about $48k for a 328i with sport package, heated seats, keyless go, HIDs, HK sound, heated seats, etc. Sorry, they arent close to being the same price. So you can get a GS or you get get a stripped down 328i or you can get a well equipped 328i (when it comes out) for at least 10 grand more.

 

[tripowergto]

This cool Kia coupe could make for interesting competition for the GS should they confirm it for production.

 

[tripowergto]

How many sports sedans offer 320hp for $32k? At that price the G25 offers 218hp. But you're right, its only GM coming up short in the hp per dollar department.

Keep in mind the 361HP V8 G8 GT started at $30k so I don't feel a $32k 320HP V6 is an unreasonable request especially since the $23k Camaro offers the 323HP 3.6 V6 standard and a new rental grade, base Impala can be had for $24k(or less) with 302HP V6 so why does the top-dog $35k+ Regal GS get short changed?

 

[krusshall]

Keep in mind the 361HP V8 G8 GT started at $30k so I don't feel a $32k 320HP V6 is an unreasonable request especially since the $23k Camaro offers the 323HP 3.6 V6 standard and a new rental grade, base Impala can be had for $24k(or less) with 302HP V6 so why does the top-dog $35k+ Regal GS get short changed?

Buick Lacrosse is about the closest you'll get to what you want.

And this just in: The next Altima is ditching its V6 as well. Hi-po V6's are slowly being sequestered to higher end models.

 

[neshapop]

Keep in mind the 361HP V8 G8 GT started at $30k so I don't feel a $32k 320HP V6 is an unreasonable request especially since the $23k Camaro offers the 323HP 3.6 V6 standard and a new rental grade, base Impala can be had for $24k(or less) with 302HP V6 so why does the top-dog $35k+ Regal GS get short changed?

...and you are comparing G8, Impala and Camaro interiors with Regal asking for the same price range? That's a good one. Why don't you try to sell that math to any Acura, Volvo or Audi dealer to get that kind of package out the door. Maybe for CPO 2009-2010 units, they would treat you badly for 2012 MY.

Bob Lutz said back than that future success of Buick as a brand will lay in simple math: you will need more money to get one than for your Chevy/Pontiac car. I am happy that Buick does not go for low rent pricing war until it sells better than competitor premium/entry luxury models.

 

[All Star]

So after 130 posts we've learned, yet again:

• Buick is not Pontiac
• Regal GS is not a muscle car
• More expensive ($10k+) German sedans are faster
• Camry/Accord/etc V6 are faster if you want to drag race at a green light

:clap:

This guy gets it.

Keep in mind the 361HP V8 G8 GT started at $30k so I don't feel a $32k 320HP V6 is an unreasonable request especially since the $23k Camaro offers the 323HP 3.6 V6 standard and a new rental grade, base Impala can be had for $24k(or less) with 302HP V6 so why does the top-dog $35k+ Regal GS get short changed?

You people get too hung up on horsepower...the GS would still be under-powered with the LFX. It may be up 30-40 horses, but the turbo 4 has 15-20 more lb-ft of torque, not that significant of a difference. Apparently the turbo 4 is replacing the V6 in performance applications, whether we like it or not.

 

[Orbit Orange]

So after 130 posts we've learned, yet again:

• Buick is not Pontiac
• Regal GS is not a muscle car
• More expensive ($10k+) German sedans are faster
• Camry/Accord/etc V6 are faster if you want to drag race at a green light

:clap:

Yep and all of this could have been avoided several pages ago if DenaliHD66 would have replied to my rebuttal and said, "oops, my bad, Buick is NOT replacing Pontiac". Could have been the end of the matter right there.

 

[VMax2007]

You people get too hung up on horsepower...the GS would still be under-powered with the LFX. It may be up 30-40 horses, but the turbo 4 has 15-20 more lb-ft of torque, not that significant of a difference. Apparently the turbo 4 is replacing the V6 in performance applications, whether we like it or not.

And GM will not be getting my money for a turbo 4-banger, whether they like it or not.

 

[1487]

Keep in mind the 361HP V8 G8 GT started at $30k so I don't feel a $32k 320HP V6 is an unreasonable request especially since the $23k Camaro offers the 323HP 3.6 V6 standard and a new rental grade, base Impala can be had for $24k(or less) with 302HP V6 so why does the top-dog $35k+ Regal GS get short changed?

I said how many SPORTS SEDANS have that kind of power for that kind of money. And there is more to a car than hp. The Camaro is affordable in LS form because its sparsely equipped. The Regal GS has more features standard than the Camaro has with all the options. What camaro customers expect and what potential GS customers expect are two different things.

 

[1487]

This guy gets it.



You people get too hung up on horsepower...the GS would still be under-powered with the LFX. It may be up 30-40 horses, but the turbo 4 has 15-20 more lb-ft of torque, not that significant of a difference. Apparently the turbo 4 is replacing the V6 in performance applications, whether we like it or not.

The FWD LFX only makes 260-264lb ft of torque so its down at least 30lb-ft to the 2L turbo. The FWD application doesnt make the hp or torque of the RWD configuration in the CTS/Camaro.

 

[germeezy1]

Right. Which is why the more expensive Enclave sold so well in that exact same GFC. Sure.

You also conveniently ignored the following:



THAT'S the GFC argument.



How many tenths was the total lack of refinement worth in the G6 GXP?



Just the opposite. Why would GM need to save the Buick brand here if it wasn't profitable? Why would success in China dictate the need to have the brand here? You have NEVER sufficiently answered that question and it still stands.

We get ZERO products from China. We actually export the Enclave TO THEM. The Regal is a rebadged Opel. The Verano is an Astra with a trunk. If anything, Buick was saved here to add profit potential to GM Europe's thin-margin volume cars.



Good Lord, you're sensitive! How is that an insult to say thay you're in the VAST minority of Pontiac buyers?

There weren't enough "high line" Pontiac buyers to justify keeping the brand. There just weren't. Accept it and move on. Except for the G8 GXP, Pontiac had to give away G8s and Solstices.



Yes, yes, we get it. Your endless muttering on every Buick post about how stupid GM was for cancelling Pontiac instead of Buick to no avail makes you want to take your ball and run home.

If you followed my postings on Pontiac threads, you'll note that I have said repeatedly that I get why Pontiac enthusiasts are upset. But "upset" and "butthurt in every posting" are two different things. You refuse to listen to reason, and no matter what anyone else says...no matter how poignant the arguments for keeping Buick, you robotically parrot the tired, patently false line that "GM kept Buick because of China".

I don't care if bashing Pontiac hurts your feelings or not. Buick gets bashed all the time, too. You're the one who can't see the two sides, I'm afraid. You're the one with a lousy life ahead if you refuse to JUST LET GO. You're the one with your head in the sand about the BILLIONS GM pumped into Pontiac to keep it viable, to reinvent its image. To bring the brand back into relevance. You're the one with your head in the sand whenever someone says Buick was profitable and Pontiac wasn't. You're the one with your head in the sand about how the GFC dictated decision-making for a bankrupt GM under enormous public pressure at the time. And how Pontiac had FAR LESS GOING FOR IT when it came to making GM money at the time than Buick did.

They could have "saved" Pontiac...if they cut it down to a niche brand to save a couple thousand "high line buyers". Then they'd have to PUMP BILLIONS OF DOLLARS THEY DIDN'T HAVE IN 2009 SINCE THEY WERE GOING BANKRUPT into marketing to try to woo conquest buyers who still thought "Aztek" when you said "Pontiac" after 20 years of peddling overstyled Chevys in gobs of plastic cladding.

Like it or not, when it was time to make the tough calls the Enclave showed that Buick had a future in the US. The loss-making, low-volume Solstice and G8 showed that Pontiac didn't.

As always a quality post, from someone not so obtuse as to think that because GM closed Pontiac that they owe Pontiac customers a brand of their own. GM intrinsically knows why they kept Buick and no Pontiac as well as Saturn , and its as you aptly stated due to the fiscal black hole that Pontiac had become.

So after 130 posts we've learned, yet again:

• Buick is not Pontiac
• Regal GS is not a muscle car
• More expensive ($10k+) German sedans are faster
• Camry/Accord/etc V6 are faster if you want to drag race at a green light

:clap:

Humorous, but concise and correct in every way!

1. Good luck finding a $36k 328i
2. The new 3 series comes with only a few option packages and few stand alone features. What does this mean? Expect a 328i equipped like the GS to be WELL over $40k. The BMW is faster and for a premium of $5k you can get better efficiency than the Regal. How long will it take for you to save enough gas to make up for the price premium?
3. Competitors for the GS are CC V6, TSX V6, Maxima, TL, MKZ. Its not hard to come up with a list of competitors. Its only hard for those who want to compare it to RWD German sports sedans costing far more.

Its amazing that so many who proclaim to be luxury car experts, that do not buy in this class at all are so obviously oblivious to the blatant fact that BMW's have few standard features. Also pray tell when do FWD sedans that are loaded at $40k instantly become competitors to the more expensive and one of the top selling luxury cars in the world?

Please spare us the "roughly the same price" argument. The GS comes with 19s, leather, HIDS, premium sound, Brembos, IDC, 12 way heated seats and push button start STANDARD. You CANNOT compare a stripped BMW to the GS and then say the BMW is at "the same price point". No it isnt. Expect to pay at least $42k-$45k for a 328i equipped like the GS. If you look at the 2011 version the 328i is about $5k+ more than the GS with the same kit.

That argument is as obtuse as it is assinine the GS, is a FWD sports sedan in the mold of the TSX its not a direct 3 series competitor in any way especially when it comes to price.

How many sports sedans offer 320hp for $32k? At that price the G25 offers 218hp. But you're right, its only GM coming up short in the hp per dollar department.

BTW, those who think the all new 3 series will be "about the same" as the Regal should price a 2011 328i. I came up with a price of about $48k for a 328i with sport package, heated seats, keyless go, HIDs, HK sound, heated seats, etc. Sorry, they arent close to being the same price. So you can get a GS or you get get a stripped down 328i or you can get a well equipped 328i (when it comes out) for at least 10 grand more.

Finally someone who gets it, and understands that the 3 series is not a direct competitor for the Regal GS. I must say its quite refreshing to observe the postings of someone who understands.

The FWD LFX only makes 260-264lb ft of torque so its down at least 30lb-ft to the 2L turbo. The FWD application doesnt make the hp or torque of the RWD configuration in the CTS/Camaro.

I am sure it has much to do with transaxle limitations, as GM follows this trend with all FWD vs RWD LFX variants.

 

[neshapop]

And GM will not be getting my money for a turbo 4-banger, whether they like it or not.

Your options for cheap V6 sedan will shrink to very few makes (if any) very soon.

 

[NHRATA01]

And GM will not be getting my money for a turbo 4-banger, whether they like it or not.

I never would've guessed that based on your posts in Regal-themed topics.

 

[1487]

wow, no more comments about how this car is a poor deal compared to the Almighty 3 series? No posts about the G8 V6 doing 0-60 in 5.5 secs?

 

[CorsaTurboC]

I'd LOVE to test drive one! I keep asking my local Buick dealers. One Sales associate told me on Sunday they expect one in January. I haven't even SAT in one and I attended the Main Street in Motion event!