[YEH]

The dealer experience is only part of the picture, and it comes to the fore of the conversation because the car was simply not compelling enough. I can emphatically assure you that Lexus easily shades BMW, and MB for sales/ service experience yet they still experience notable sales due to the strength of their brands, and compelling vehicles.

Except Lexus's "compelling vehicles" (to the more enthusiast minded), the GS and IS really don't sell.

What sells are the ES, RX and to a lesser extent the LS; and the next big seller for Lexus will be the RAV-4 based CUV.

 

[Jesda]

Except Lexus's "compelling vehicles" (to the more enthusiast minded), the GS and IS really don't sell.

What sells are the ES, RX and to a lesser extent the LS; and the next big seller for Lexus will be the RAV-4 based CUV.

The LS, GS and IS are necessary to give Lexus an image of parity with BMW and MB.

The ES and RX sell in part because of their better-performing showroom companions.

 

[2b2]

The LS, GS and IS are necessary to give Lexus an image of parity with BMW and MB...

I was thinking, "^yeahBut, Lexus STARTED with the LS"
which
made me think,
"MAYBE if Lincoln had come out with the MKS's big brother, originally planned "E386", as a Modern TownCar replacement;
thus not alienating & freaking out their traditional customers QUITE so much;
they would've made a smoother sequential transition & kept some of their old mojo (such as it was) going?

 

[Jesda]

I was thinking, "^yeahBut, Lexus STARTED with the LS"
which
made me think,
"MAYBE if Lincoln had come out with the MKS's big brother, originally planned "E386", as a Modern TownCar replacement;
thus not alienating & freaking out their traditional customers QUITE so much;
they would've made a smoother sequential transition & kept some of their old mojo (such as it was) going?

They've bragged about MKZ being the core of Lincoln's renaissance which was a big mistake.

 

[Andrew L]

They've bragged about MKZ being the core of Lincoln's renaissance which was a big mistake.

I agree. MKZ is a step in the right direction, but don't get me wrong it is not the car that is the core of their renaissance. Multiple product should be their once they have a solid lineup, I still also desire a halo car for the brand but who knows if they will ever get one.

 

[wescoent]

They've bragged about MKZ being the core of Lincoln's renaissance which was a big mistake.

False. The message was that the MKZ was the first example of the type of vehicles that will fuel the revival. We still have 6-7 more to go, none of which anyone has seen yet.

 

[ponchoman49]

IMHO, Lincoln died when the Mark VIII and Continental died. Those cars were Lincoln's soul.

I would add the LS and TC to that list. Since Ford started copying the foreign makes with letter names, boring plain generic austere exteriors and re-branded FWD based Ford sedans, I have lost much interest in there products. 4 cylinder luxury cars, the none too reliable Sync and the soulless plain center stacks with numerous look alike tiny touch buttons and trying to pass off the ubber ugly MKwhatever Ford Flex thing is just more nails in there coffin. The push button replacement for a normal shifter in the MKZ is goofy and takes much sport out of the car not to mention the center console looks really odd and lonely.

 

[germeezy1]

The MKZ is simply not good enough, and if anything its evidence that at the time of its conception that Lincoln still was at a loss to actually discern as to what makes a Lincoln a Lincoln. If their cars are not good enough than the SUV's alone will not lend the brand credibility. Porsche did not transition to SUV's to bolster the brand image before the 911 became one of the worlds best sports cars. Mercedes would not have discontinued the S Klasse , made an E Klasse that suffered in comparison to the class leaders, and expected the GLK to bolster the brand.

 

[alex725]

I would but... this is a silly thing but I really want to have cooled seats, my LS has them now and its a feature I love to have specially here in FL. I think I am just going to keep my LS for now, she hasn't really let me down and she is still an absolute joy to drive.

Keep your eye out for the 2014 fusion..heard there will be cooled seats offered in the titanium next year.

 

[CaddyFanFL]

Keep your eye out for the 2014 fusion..heard there will be cooled seats offered in the titanium next year.

That would be nice...

 

[stew1001]

My experience was terrible, left a $1,000 in October on a loaded hybrid, they never called me or responded to my inquiries. Never kept me updated of the status. I changed my mind when I saw how small the back seat was in real life, they refused to return my deposit, then they said they would return my deposit, then they did not call me back and never gave me back the deposit. Really bad publicity for a company that, for whatever good valid reasons, strung out their customers for 6 months with zero feedback. This dealership Queens Ford Lincoln was supposed to replace a rogue dealership who went belly up or were shut down because of their unethical behavior (had a really bad experience with them) but seems these guys are no better. Anyway, I ended up with a Cadillac XTS that I love, and the Caddy dealer was much more professional. I think Lincoln has a lot to learn about how to treat a luxury car buyer. They are going to miss a lot of opportunities to convert buyers from other brands. (it would not hurt if they stretched the MKZ wheelbase 2 inches and gave it to the back seat.)

 

[megeebee]

My experience was terrible, left a $1,000 in October on a loaded hybrid, they never called me or responded to my inquiries. Never kept me updated of the status. I changed my mind when I saw how small the back seat was in real life, they refused to return my deposit, then they said they would return my deposit, then they did not call me back and never gave me back the deposit. Really bad publicity for a company that, for whatever good valid reasons, strung out their customers for 6 months with zero feedback. This dealership Queens Ford Lincoln was supposed to replace a rogue dealership who went belly up or were shut down because of their unethical behavior (had a really bad experience with them) but seems these guys are no better. Anyway, I ended up with a Cadillac XTS that I love, and the Caddy dealer was much more professional. I think Lincoln has a lot to learn about how to treat a luxury car buyer. They are going to miss a lot of opportunities to convert buyers from other brands. (it would not hurt if they stretched the MKZ wheelbase 2 inches and gave it to the back seat.)

First, welcome to GMI.

I'm sorry you had such a bad experience. Have your lawyer call the dealership and I think you'll get your deposit back.

By the way, the MKZ's wheelbase is actually 3/10 ths of an inch longer than your new XTS, yet apparently doesn't have the same rear legroom. I'm glad you like your new Cadillac.

 

[Jesda]

False. The message was that the MKZ was the first example of the type of vehicles that will fuel the revival. We still have 6-7 more to go, none of which anyone has seen yet.

This "just wait and see what's coming!" garbage was GM's mantra for three decades until it went bankrupt. In this industry, you put up or shut up.

 

[germeezy1]

My experience was terrible, left a $1,000 in October on a loaded hybrid, they never called me or responded to my inquiries. Never kept me updated of the status. I changed my mind when I saw how small the back seat was in real life, they refused to return my deposit, then they said they would return my deposit, then they did not call me back and never gave me back the deposit. Really bad publicity for a company that, for whatever good valid reasons, strung out their customers for 6 months with zero feedback. This dealership Queens Ford Lincoln was supposed to replace a rogue dealership who went belly up or were shut down because of their unethical behavior (had a really bad experience with them) but seems these guys are no better. Anyway, I ended up with a Cadillac XTS that I love, and the Caddy dealer was much more professional. I think Lincoln has a lot to learn about how to treat a luxury car buyer. They are going to miss a lot of opportunities to convert buyers from other brands. (it would not hurt if they stretched the MKZ wheelbase 2 inches and gave it to the back seat.)

Sorry to hear this took place, and welcome to GMi. We hope that you stay, and share with us your experience on your XTS.

 

[wescoent]

This "just wait and see what's coming!" garbage was GM's mantra for three decades until it went bankrupt. In this industry, you put up or shut up.

Or, rush products to market before they're ready, and deal with the devastating aftermath...

 

[germeezy1]

Or, rush products to market before they're ready, and deal with the devastating aftermath...

The Sensotronic brake recalls, and ensuing debacle were unfortunate but they did not bring MB to their knees as Lincoln's latest miscues have.

 

[wescoent]

The Sensotronic brake recalls, and ensuing debacle were unfortunate but they did not bring MB to their knees as Lincoln's latest miscues have.

Absolutely correct... Mercedes proceeded to funnel $10B+ out of Chrysler's Ram profits, and into emergency updates to its lineup to prevent a catastrophic sales collapse, and cut Chrysler's development budget to practically nothing.

Annoyingly, Ford doesn't have the benefit of a cash cow they can suck the life out of, without stockholders noticing or caring.

 

[jpd80]

Absolutely correct... Mercedes proceeded to funnel $10B+ out of Chrysler's Ram profits, and into emergency updates to its lineup to prevent a catastrophic sales collapse, and cut Chrysler's development budget to practically nothing.

Annoyingly, Ford doesn't have the benefit of a cash cow they can suck the life out of, without stockholders noticing or caring.

That's what I hate about Luxury brands like MB, Daimler basically did a smash and grab of Chrysler's cash to feather their own nest and now like BMW, carry the pretense l of all conquering high profit luxury marques. The truth is they got there by sucking the guts out of Chrysler.

Part of me thinks that Chrysler might have weathered the GFC storm if its coffers hadn't ben raided so badly and no doubt, even stronger to day than it is....

 

[jpd80]

This "just wait and see what's coming!" garbage was GM's mantra for three decades until it went bankrupt. In this industry, you put up or shut up.

Agreed that "wait and see" only buys so much timeand this is all about Ford's motivation,
how dedicated Ford is to the entire plan - that's the question on most critic's lips.

IMO, "the new Lincoln" should not have been mentioned until after several products have arrived, like in 2014 and
making the announcement in front of a product that's not truly representative of proposed changes is a waste of time.

The only thing in Lincoln's favor is that the market is way more forgiving than non-buyer critics passing judgement,
give buyers great luxury cars that appeal to them and that they actually want to own and Lincoln will be back.

The preoccupation with profit over increased differentiation is there and this is something Ford is wrestling with,
I hope that stance is softened and Lincoln evolves towards vehicle more fitting of its desired stature..

 

[germeezy1]

Agreed that "wait and see" only buys so much timeand this is all about Ford's motivation,
how dedicated Ford is to the entire plan - that's the question on most critic's lips.

IMO, "the new Lincoln" should not have been mentioned until after several products have arrived, like in 2014 and
making the announcement in front of a product that's not truly representative of proposed changes is a waste of time.

The only thing in Lincoln's favor is that the market is way more forgiving than non-buyer critics passing judgement,
give buyers great luxury cars that appeal to them and that they actually want to own and Lincoln will be back.

The preoccupation with profit over increased differentiation is there and this is something Ford is wrestling with,
I hope that stance is softened and Lincoln evolves towards vehicle more fitting of its desired stature..

Ford already invested in differentiation between the MKZ, and the Fusion it is the execution of the differentiation that is called into question. Why invest the money in making a vehicle different if you execute in a way that suggests to some that the cars are directly related, and to others that the Ford variant is the more premium variant sans badges?