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While charts and tables are of some use, I think real world injury and death stats would serve a more realistic function. Crashing into barriers is not what happens out on the highways.....
Real world injury and death rates are pretty hard to come by on cars that haven't been around very long. And those crash barriers are usually representative of another vehicle, a pole, etc. You know, the kind of things one might crash into on the highways.

And quite a few cars (say, sports cars) would figure way too high in those "real world" stats. But that could very well be more of a rating on how safe the average DRIVER of said car is, not really the car.
 
Cloth on the dash: "I hope wall-to-wall carpeting is not the next trend in auto interiors," Geiger said, and she wasn't alone. "That big swath of upholstery cloth wrapping the dash contours is a question mark for durability and cleaning," Meier said. "I like the fact that they are trying something different," Robinson said, "but this doesn't really work for me." "I'd be worried about the fabric on the dash," Katie said. "I can't wipe it clean."

Odd design choices: Beyond being described as "polarizing" by several of the judges, "the quirky interior is missing things: height-adjustable seat belts, a trunk release lever, a max air conditioning button," Bragman said. "These are common things made notable by their absence." Robinson bemoaned the "awkward placement of the start button."

Stop. Start. Stop. The biggest praise for the auto stop-start came from Meier: "I barely noticed it - but you should be able to turn it off." Bragman offered a good reason for that: "There's no way to shut off the stop-start and, as a result, it kills the air conditioning while you're sitting at a stoplight. That's very annoying in hot, humid Atlanta."

And there you have it-all the things I criticized about the car.
Now, what will GM do about it? Absolutely nothing as usual
The new Malibu is a great car but has many annoying GM strings attached. Not only are the above things a bit off putting but it also loses some badly needed interior storage including a place to put your glasses/sunglasses, it also lost the very handy hidden storage behind the touch screen along with the pull out drawer to the left of the steering wheel.

The way Chevy packages these cars is very annoying as well. Why is there both an L and LS with no options being offered other than color etc? Just make the L and give it a simple option package with the alloys wheels and touch screen. Dropping the 2LT trim level was also a mistake as it gave customers another option to get into a peppier 2.0T engine without the stop start feature without having to spend well over 30K. Now for 2017 the only way to get a 2.0t is the most expensive Premier trim level which will be over 30K for starting price. Meanwhile you can get virtually any competitor with a more powerful engine save Mazda in a lower trim level car in the mid to upper 20's.

About that cloth on the dash. Well if you can't wipe it clean there what do they think people are going to do about the seats themselves? That harsh fake cloth they use on these new cars absorbs stains and dirt like a sponge and cleaning those stains out is super difficult in most cases. Tan and light gray are the worst. We see many late model cars with this fake cloth in tan and light gray go through auctions with irremovable stains and marks all the time. The soft cloth in my 2013 Impala is 10 times easier to clean and keep clean even in light gray.

It would also be really nice if the Malibu had something features wise that its competition lacked like a fold flat passenger seat, a chilled glovebox, power pedals or a rear seat armrest with flip open storage. Note that the older generation Malibu from 2004 on the Epsilon body offered the power pedals, fold flat passenger seat and the 2013-2016 Malibu/Limited models had the rear storage armrest with cup holders along with the above missing items.

The new Malibu is a great car and a very solid effort on GM's part. The above is a few things that could make it even better and GM would be wise to keep things fresh and at least consider making the following changes/adjustments in upcoming model years:

1) Make the 2.0T available on the LT model or offer a Sport package for that same trim that includes the 250 Hp engine, tire upgrade, firmer suspension etc
2) Change the silly fabric trim on the dash to soft touch vinyl as in the upper leather trimmed cars.
3) Stop the GM mentality with the stop/start and offer a defeat feature like most everybody else does
4) Lose either the L or LS trim levels and just have one cheap entry car with an option package for those that want the screen and wheel upgrade
5) Put in an upper sun glasses holder like every competitor does
6) Make the seat belts height adjustable ( I can't believe this was omitted)
7) Offer at least one thing the competition doesn't have from the above list and advertise the hell out of it
8) Did I mention advertise the hell out of it. Advertise advertise advertise!!!
 
Real world injury and death rates are pretty hard to come by on cars that haven't been around very long. And those crash barriers are usually representative of another vehicle, a pole, etc. You know, the kind of things one might crash into on the highways.

And quite a few cars (say, sports cars) would figure way too high in those "real world" stats. But that could very well be more of a rating on how safe the average DRIVER of said car is, not really the car.
All you say is so. But the outcome for actual, warm bodies in real-world crashes tells us more. Older data are older data. Past can be prologue.

And it's true, the make and model do have an effect on injury and death data.

If you're so statistically paranoid that you won't drive anything but the top 1% in the crash database, well have at it.

Those people will probably never be in a car crash. But they might trip on stairs :sad: and bonk their heads while walking and studying crash data obsessively.
 
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The new Malibu is in a TBD status awaiting NHTSA / IIHS results.
NG Malibu IIHS crashworthiness ratings were released today. The car achieved the institute's 'Top Safety Pick Plus' honor, with ratings of 'good' for all five crashworthiness tests plus a 'superior' rating for front crash prevention when equipped appropriately.

With this latest result, all nine midsize sedans in the Cars.com/MotorWeek comparison test earned IIHS' Top Safety Pick Plus award:
  • Chevrolet Malibu
  • Honda Accord
  • Hyundai Sonata
  • Kia Optima
  • Mazda 6
  • Nissan Altima
  • Subaru Legacy
  • Toyota Camry
  • Volkswagen Passat

Of these, all except Altima, Camry, and Passat can be equipped with a front crash mitigation system with the highest possible score of 6 points.
 
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Do not care in the slightest for IIHS data alone - in a vacuum.

As handled by Informed For Life first, and myself second after that - fine.


Accord, Altima, Camry and Passat are dropped implicitly in that post - as per that part you clipped, for their lack in some cases serious lack, with the NHTSA regime.

Besides, want Informed For Life to do their now weaker but still important thing with the meld - and then take the final lookie see over here.

To each his own.
 
Part of the need..... part of that discussion for something like what Informed For Life provides is covered here.

Old - but still very relevant.


Quote :

NHTSA and IIHS Fail to Identify the Most Safe Vehicles




Vehicle crash tests measure crashworthiness—the ability of a vehicle to protect the occupants during impact with a stationary barrier, such as a bridge abutment. A vehicle's weight is not indicative of its crashworthiness—some small, light-weight vehicles have excellent crashworthiness, while many large SUVs and pick-up trucks do not. However, when two vehicles collide head-on the relative weight of your vehicle compared with your opponent's vehicle determines the severity of forces you experience. Since 60% of traffic accidents involve multiple vehicles you must consider both crashworthiness and size/weight to identify a safe vehicle.



There are two agencies that perform crash testing for rating the crashworthiness of vehicles sold in the United States: The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA)—an agency within the U.S. Department of Transportation, and the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS)—an organization created and funded by approximately one hundred automobile insurance companies. Crash tests performed by each agency use different protocols and their results complement each other, which is why the agencies only agree about half the time as to which vehicles have the best crashworthiness. You must review ratings posted by both agencies to evaluate the crashworthiness of any vehicle.



Next, you need to interpret the ratings. This is not as easy as it may first appear considering that the majority of vehicles (60% of all 2011-2016 vehicles) are rated “Top Pick” by IIHS; 45% are rated “5-Stars Overall” by NHTSA. However, of approximately 1800 vehicles with sufficient data for evaluation, only 14% are both “Top Pick” and “5-Stars Overall”. You may be surprised to learn that many of these "Safe" vehicles do not rate in the top quartile in some individual crash modes. Specifically, NHTSA designates some vehicles as "5-Stars Overall" despite receiving only "4-Stars" in side impact and/or in frontal impact. Also, IIHS designates some pre-2014 vehicles as “Top Pick”, despite receiving “Poor” or “Marginal” ratings in the small-overlap frontal test. As a general rule-of-thumb your risk of serious injury/death increases 30%-50% when going from either agency's best rating category to their 2nd best, i.e., 5-stars-to-4-stars, or Good-to-Acceptable.



After you cull from the safest 14% list those vehicles with ratings below the top quartile in one or more individual crash mode, the resulting short list consists of approximately 5% of vehicles, all with top-quartile crashworthiness ratings in every crash mode. Included within this 5% list however are light-weight vehicles that need to be removed from consideration. Although both agencies warn the consumer to avoid light-weight vehicles their ratings data are presented without factoring in this important consideration. Separately, IIHS publishes data showing the dramatic correlation between vehicle weight and fatalities in multi-vehicle accidents. For example, these data show that drivers were twice as likely to die in a 2,500 lb. car as in a 4,000 lb. car; 4x as likely as in a 4,500 lb. SUV. These data enable you to compare fatality rates of vehicles based solely on class/weight, and as a practical matter you can avoid vehicles that have an inherent disadvantage compared with the average vehicle you are likely to collide with, such as an average weight (3,200 lb.) passenger car.



Once you remove vehicles whose class/weight have a higher driver fatality rate than the average weight passenger car, the 4% list is reduced to only 2% of vehicles. These 2% are the only vehicles judged to be “safest”.



I created this website to enable consumers to easily identify the safest vehicles.


by Mike Dulberger, Founder, Informed For Life



***

End Quote.

http://informedforlife.org/viewartcl.php?index=131

----


There is a lot more to it and IFL also covers some of that elsewhere on the site.

Part of that would include that IFL closes the gap as best possible and in decent usable fashion, given the data limitations between real world result and the ratings where both IIHS and NHTSA both far more than struggle.

Another fail with NHTSA and IIHS - touched on above but well worth a more detailed look is that the rating systems ( as opposed to the physical testing which is a seperate consideration and topic ) - how scores and Stars and groupings are assigned have at least several shortcomings.

1. ) Too easy to get a 'good' net score of some kind because windows for each star rating as an example, are far too broad.

2. ) This leads to the next rating informational fail both provide ie lack of relative discernment.


So in sum, much harder and ultimately less complete in terms of allowing those interested in discerning more finely between the the so so s and the top.

One thing for certain.

Nobody would accept all these shorts including the ones not mentioned here....... which is often the bulk of it - with regard to road performance ratings and MPGs etc and soon..... with regard to EM.

IFL does a real service including by the already mentioned relating of scores to real world result. But even there and because of the inherent shorts @ NHTSA and IIHS - that could be improved as well and would be if the other two got up and really did something more useful. They also deserve a big shout out for bringing the two Testing Regimes and resulting Data sets together into something very usable which is something both IIHS and NHTSA have been steadfast in ignoring / preventing over the course of their often frosty, and sometimes outright antagonistic relationship.
 
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^^ Thanks, America. Coolness. :cool:
 
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Understand your earlier and earlier concerns which were in fact well placed..... this whole 'area' is loaded with less than what we all ( self included ) end up naturally assuming.

Somewhere somebody had - besides IFL, and @ least one well ahead of IFL's creation - a great Paper or two on how many of the tests ( back when ) were not predictive in a statistically acceptable way to Real World Results - and when they were, rarely in the way expected.

Now that is a really really complicated and still controversial area - and really messy because the basic accident data is so far from less than ideal that a bunch of ranging and modeling has to essentially take it's place. Others did and still do feel differently about it.

Anyway....

Weight was of great worth and also some stuff with at least some of the Frontal was somehow useful as well.

Helped push more than a few improvements with all this along so what we have today is better but still.... far short of what could realistically and easily be.

Part of that reluctance is .... about many things starting with.... MPGs if you follow.

( The fear is along the lines that everybody or too many would want a Suburban and not a Prius etc .... if they really knew the truth.... )

Also helped push IIHS along who still has an ( often ) strong tendency to gravitate towards what's best for the Insurance Industry... including and especially for the 95 % of the House that is on the 'otherside' of the biz ie Investment Portfolio Management optimisation. Remember too, they had a terrible start with their stuff - until MB 'helped' them straighten it out .......

So.... we all must make do with what we have available as imperfect as it all is and while IFL does not solve all that ( they can't ) they do move the Ball forward a good and useful amount.

Still have to crosscheck some stuff though and again, especially but not exclusively so, if you go off the Winner list.

Also that is a rolling list so ( good ) stuff ( imo ) gets pushed off that may still be highly relevant in a particular Class of Product.

Or to and for your own interest - as you yourself define it.

NHTSA as they have already announced, will be bringin' some semi serious augmentation and revisions fairly soon to theirs ..... but do not seem to have gone after it all in terms of spreading it for discernment.

I'm not really after what the stanadrds and tests should be with all this - more about making a better presentation - a more usable one of what we already have.

Speaking of which, both NHTSA and IIHS need to do some of the sacred cows that never get tested because of cost and sales volumes etc.

That's long over due as well.

Really..... why do we not have some sort of minimum data set on any and everything on sale ?

See, this is one of the areas where the feuding between NHTSA and IIHS has been harmful - via a lot of waste.

Why not get serious and fully harmonize to a large degree anyway - and get them all essentially.
 
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........the outcome for actual, warm bodies in real-world crashes tells us more. Older data are older data. Past can be prologue.....
No, not really. It's quite the opposite. Real world crashes are of such wildy different events, that they don't accurately predict future results. F'rinstance, car A hits a wall, car B hits a tree, car C hits a motorcycle, car D hits a pedestrian, car E drives into a lake, on and on - the variation is endless. There is little there to tell us what happens when the next car hits a bus (or whatever).

You can't really get even remotely close to any "average" crash results on any particular car until you've got years and years of data. And by then that particular car has been replaced by something newer, and you start all over.

That's why we have standardized crash tests. No single driver is likely to have that exact crash, but if ALL cars are tested to that standard crash, you get a pretty good baseline on how that car does, safety-wise, vs other vehicles that are also tested to that same standard. And there are a set of standardized crashes to help cover some variations of crashes. But again, ALL the cars get tested to that exact standard.
 
I see these cars and would only lease the least expensive from www.legendleasing.com

These are mostly throw away vehicles in my opinion...

I see these four door sedans as basic transportation and the key feature of all these vehicles is lowest cost. They are all competent enough to be considered good.

I guess if I were purchasing I'd lean towards the best performing version but why? I'd rather lease these as the lowest cost version and just buy a sports car for fun.

Honda has pretty impressive lease deals of around 600 bank fee and low 200 a month for 36 months...

Just pick the color and have it delivered without ever having to go to a dealer.

If there was one less than the Honda I'd get that.

Save the money for the sports car...

Jmo
 
No, not really. It's quite the opposite. Real world crashes are of such wildy different events, that they don't accurately predict future results. F'rinstance, car A hits a wall, car B hits a tree, car C hits a motorcycle, car D hits a pedestrian, car E drives into a lake, on and on - the variation is endless. There is little there to tell us what happens when the next car hits a bus (or whatever).

You can't really get even remotely close to any "average" crash results on any particular car until you've got years and years of data. And by then that particular car has been replaced by something newer, and you start all over.

That's why we have standardized crash tests. No single driver is likely to have that exact crash, but if ALL cars are tested to that standard crash, you get a pretty good baseline on how that car does, safety-wise, vs other vehicles that are also tested to that same standard. And there are a set of standardized crashes to help cover some variations of crashes. But again, ALL the cars get tested to that exact standard.
Yes and no. Standardized tests are still standardized tests. Some students ace standardized tests, but in the real world they can do great or poorly academically and professionally.

We all know people who got great SATs or ACTs and wouldn't know if a locomotive was about to roll over them. Conversely, there are poor test takers who can do anything but leap tall buildings with a single bound.

This is an imperfect (or you could argue perfectly imperfect) world.

You are simply NOT going to get real-world results from standardized tests for the very reasons you state, that all real-world crashes are unique.

IF a maker's IIHS and NHTSA test results correlate well with real world, that indicates their design teams are good at the art.

The only judgement we have for real world crashes is past performance. Yes, those results take years to compile. Updates/upgrades happen annually and sometimes during a yearly cycle if a glaring fault is discovered and it needs to be patched.

In so many instances, past performance is a good indicator of future results. Or as Shakespeare put it, past is prologue.
 
Yes and no. Standardized tests are still standardized tests. Some students ace standardized tests, but in the real world they can do great or poorly academically and professionally.

We all know people who got great SATs or ACTs and wouldn't know if a locomotive was about to roll over them. Conversely, there are poor test takers who can do anything but leap tall buildings with a single bound.

This is an imperfect (or you could argue perfectly imperfect) world.

You are simply NOT going to get real-world results from standardized tests for the very reasons you state, that all real-world crashes are unique.

IF a maker's IIHS and NHTSA test results correlate well with real world, that indicates their design teams are good at the art.

The only judgement we have for real world crashes is past performance. Yes, those results take years to compile. Updates/upgrades happen annually and sometimes during a yearly cycle if a glaring fault is discovered and it needs to be patched.

In so many instances, past performance is a good indicator of future results. Or as Shakespeare put it, past is prologue.
"Past performance is not an indicator of future results". Perhaps you've read that quote many, many times.

Shakespeare wrote plays, that doesn't really make him an engineering expert. He wasn't even particularly good with history.

But sure, the past is the only way we have to judge some things, although hardly ever with any accuracy. Cars don't respond as well regarding "real world" testing. Cars are in a constant state of change, and safety is one of biggest of those changes. And since past crash data is going to be (at best) a generation of cars out of date, the tests done before the first car even gets sold are WAY more informative if you're looking to buy a car.

No way of testing is perfect, but arguing against standardized testing (in cars or schools) is pretty ridiculous. And way too many people keep complaining that a narrowly targeted aptitude test doesn't apply to areas that weren't even tested. Imagine that!
 
I am not arguing against standardized testing. Where did you get that, I never said anything like that.

Anyway, this discussion is pointless, I'm done with you. You don't even understand what reputation means.
 
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