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Where do you get "recent history"? Cadillac was known and advertised as a big luxury car for most of 100 years before they went performance. Most people still picture Cadillac as a big luxury car and not a performance car. GM changed the car but they haven't changed the public's perception of the brand. It's hard to change a perception that GM spent many decades and many millions of dollars forming.

Do a word association test with people you know who are not car nuts and ask them what is the first word they think of when you say the name of a car. Try Cadillac, Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, etc. and you might be surprised.
Yes, poor use of wording in saying recent memory. However, isn't that all that matters? What people remember? So splitting hairs aside, Cadillac capped off its comfort oriented history with 30 years of "comfort oriented, out of step old people rebadged Chevy luxo-barges" that squandered and really damaged their image and reputation.

And comfort wont be the first thing people think with Cadillac, it will be either fins or old people, comfort probably wouldn't be one of the first images in my opinion. The problem is Cadillac's image, it isn't an image of comfort, it is an image akin to geriatric shoes. So what better way to destroy that bad image than to go performance, or running shoes in my analogy? It will take a lot to change the poor perception, but it can be done. Pontiac used to be a little old ladies car, but GM successfully changed it to performance. I believe that happened in the 1950's.
 
Cadillac can build an image of one that is synonymous with performance vehicles, but that will take a long time, resources, and resolve. So far none of the mainstream luxury brands have had the discipline to equal BMW in this regard, even ones part of larger corporations with deep pockets and all the time in the world. That doesn't make it impossible, but it should convey what it takes. Complicating matters is that Cadillac thereby becomes just another premium brand trying to do it in an ocean of brands trying to build a better BMW. This is not just Cadillac's struggle. It's all of them, Lexus included. But unlike Lexus and Cadillac, some of these brands are steeped in history with this type of car, and that is to their advantage. It'd be like Alfa's new "thing" being great dependability and longevity. Okay, they can do that, but it'll take forever and quite possibly or likely not even work. Why not focus on their history and what makes them Alfa?

So what, then, is Cadillac to do?
Well...if performance image is the one Cadillac is aiming for maybe they should try racing in top classes of Lemans (like LMP1)... and maybe winning this time.
They could use LF4.R Racing Engine from ATS racing car for start.And of course if they would won PR and marketing should use that in building brand image.
 
Well...if performance image is the one Cadillac is aiming for maybe they should try racing in top classes of Lemans (like LMP1)... and maybe winning this time.
They could use LF4.R Racing Engine from ATS racing car for start.And of course if they would won PR and marketing should use that in building brand image.
To go back to Le Mans with any chance for victory they will have to bring a hybrid powertrain
 
Let's all hope and pray that the ATS will receive this new gauge cluster that's on this CTS for the model year '16.
Also, please offer the MRC on the ATS with the AWD option. It's just mind numbing how Cadillac/GM in general refuse to offer up fully cooked vehicles.
 
Sorry , but putting a hard working 4 banger into this prestige vehicle is a sin , it really is !! I don't care if the Europeans use them , I expect more from Cadillac , with more refinement of the exterior and interior ....you don't become the number one brand fighting the battle with one hand tied behind your back . CTS sales are deplorable !
All good points usayjim2. Regarding the four banger concern, to me it's not so much that GM's LTG engine has four pistons but that it is notably less refined than BMW's comparable 2.0L four cylinder turbo gasoline units, the N20 and the B48. Also, the answer to the question presented below the C&D article's title, "If six speeds are good, then eight are great, right?", seems to be 'maybe' (the article states, "Left to its own devices, the transmission’s shifts are smooth but a tad slow for our taste; manual shifts are similar in quality.")

Just as the C&D article suggests, CTS hits a home run on fun to drive measures, with absolutely exemplary chassis tuning. If the GM sourced engine and transmission in this car is replaced by BMW's N20 or B48 engine plus ZF's 8HP transmission, and Cadillac tweaks the interior and exterior design, the car overall would truly be a grand slam.
 
All good points usayjim2. Regarding the four banger concern, to me it's not so much that GM's LTG engine has four pistons but that it is notably less refined than BMW's comparable 2.0L four cylinder turbo gasoline units, the N20 and the B48. Also, the answer to the question presented below the C&D article's title, "If six speeds are good, then eight are great, right?", seems to be 'maybe' (the article states, "Left to its own devices, the transmission’s shifts are smooth but a tad slow for our taste; manual shifts are similar in quality.")

Just as the C&D article suggests, CTS hits a home run on fun to drive measures, with absolutely exemplary chassis tuning. If the GM sourced engine and transmission in this car is replaced by BMW's N20 or B48 engine plus ZF's 8HP transmission, and Cadillac tweaks the interior and exterior design, the car overall would truly be a grand slam.
Roy. I see nothing superior in the N20 or B48 engine over the LTG. If anything the inherit reliability of the GM engine trumps any perceived NHV advantage the BMW engine may have.. ironically. Not to mention that BOTH the BMW and GM 2.0L Turbos won the Wards Best engine in 2013. What gives?

Interior pretty much needs the Dash Display tweaked. That's it. The Exterior is quite sexy IMO.. as long as it is full LED front
 
I'm satisfied with the 2.0T power in my 2014 CTS, but I find the engine buzzy at idle, especially when it's cold. I don't think I could have paid $66k for a car with this engine. The handling, however, is truly impressive. My CTS is very well balanced. I feel like I take turns with at least the same speed and confidence with which I would my former G35 Coupe.

I really like the looks of the CTS, even with my 17" wheels, but if someone has the 18s or 19s they're taking off, let me know. I would be interested in buying them!
 
The consensus from consumers are they want luxury car over-engineered with the best quality whatever they want or seeking from a luxury brand.

Enthusiasts bitched and complained that Cadillac did not had rear wheel drive cars thru out the 80s thru early 00s. Now since Cadillac building the best rear-wheel drive cars in the industry, everybody is complaining and think they are building American BMWs which is dumb logic. Can anyone accuse of Lexus building the Japanese BMW? How about Jaguar building British BMW? How about Alfa Romeo building the French BMW?

Cadillacs are building Cadillacs which is modern and world class.


Sorry not trying to be a jerk or anything but Alfa Romeo is Italian not French. Let's not be quick to give praise to France undeservingly lol
On a side note, the new Alfa Guillia is the size the ATS should've been from the start. The ATS is way too small for its segment. I bet the second gen (whatever) they will call it will grow significantly. The below ATS model they are working on, will be I think about the size of this current ATS but if Cadillac is smart, they'll design it as a 4 door coupe to disguise its size. The overall interior will then be on par with the A3 and CLA. Both of which are FWD derived cars. This way Cadillac uses its RWD architecture for the vehicle and doesn't have to invest too much into the lower end model range. JMO
 
People are completely missing the point of building 'traditional Cadillacs'. They don't need to be rolling sofas, as that's not what I think anyone is talking about. It's the focus on style, luxury, and prestige. People complain the ATS and parts of the CTS are too bland, which should not be a complaint of a Cadillac. The Escalade isn't even a wallowy mushmobile for what it is, is hugely stylish, and surprise! It sells brilliantly in spite of all its limitations people whine about (mass market platform, column shifter, LRA, etc). THAT is a Cadillac. They just need to build something with that sort of style and confidence among their sedans and crossovers.

The consensus from consumers are they want luxury car over-engineered with the best quality whatever they want or seeking from a luxury brand.

Enthusiasts bitched and complained that Cadillac did not had rear wheel drive cars thru out the 80s thru early 00s. Now since Cadillac building the best rear-wheel drive cars in the industry, everybody is complaining and think they are building American BMWs which is dumb logic. Can anyone accuse of Lexus building the Japanese BMW? How about Jaguar building British BMW? How about Alfa Romeo building the French BMW?

Cadillacs are building Cadillacs which is modern and world class.
Lexus was not building Japanese BMWs until recently. As my post history will indicate time and again, I have shouted that this is an error in judgment. They're throwing away a huge part of what made a Lexus a Lexus and what is associated with their brand.

I think people don't realize Jaguar has a long history of building performance sedans. Go back decades and decades at the Mark I and II, the XJ, etc.

Alfa Romeo? Alfa has A HUGE history of building sporty cars including sedans. The new Giulia is basically the return of a very storied nameplate in small sport sedans! Small roadsters, sports cars, these are what Alfas have been! And they're Italian, not French.

This is exactly what I was saying earlier. BMW is not the only brand that can build sporty vehicles, but that doesn't mean every brand should ignore what they do best and are known for. Cadillac, Lexus, Volvo, premium Hyundais, and Lincoln are not regarded as companies that are sporty or have an enviable history in racing, etc. Volvo and Lincoln understand this and are modernizing what gives them a USP. Lexus has chosen to ignore this. Shocking the new sport sedan GS can't even sell as well as it used to when it wasn't trying so hard to be sporty right? I say it's not. The IS is their bright spot among sporty cars.

The current Mercedes are great cars. The next E-Class is going to be nice but it is not going to destroy the CTS on anything. The CTS will get several enhancements on technology on '17 just like the rest of the Cadillacs. The E Class is going to be a major improvement but will meet the CTS in some areas, maybe surpass it on few things but not destroy. And the XF is too new and it won't get destroyed either.
The new E will surely have heaps of tech as does any new E-Class, and the current E already offers a number of features the newer CTS does not.
 
It would crash a boxter on any track.. easily.. These Cadillac's are epic..
The 2.0T AWD? The base maybe (but doubtful), but not the S or GTS.

As far as automatics go, I have always been one for more speeds. When GM still had some 3 speed autos left in their cars in the early 1990's, I was clamoring for 4 speeds. I remember the Accord came out with the 5 speed and I thought it was great. Then 6 speeds...at first I thought they were enough....but after driving (and driving in) a car with an 8 speed, I'm all for 8 speeds.

I think that is kinda where it might end for me. I don't really see any advantage in the early 9 speeds in performance or fuel economy, and once you get up to 10 speeds, you are just splitting hairs to get the car to run at the optimal RPM at any speed, but the percentage change isn't going to be that much.

For now, I'm content with a 6 speed auto in my car...I'd take an 8 speed.....but I'd want to make sure anything more than that is SUPER refined and has other technological improvements to justify anything extra.

Its kinda like getting a new 4k/UHD tv. 480 to 720 was great. Up to 1080 even better. But to get me into 4k...the resolution won't do it alone..as there isn't much use for it now. You better give me HDR, efficiency, and the best local dimming out there in order for me to want to go beyond a standard 1080p tv.
The ZF 8-speed is really good, I've driven it, so I wouldn't have any qualms about buying it. BTW, the ZF CEO said (a year or two ago) that 10-speeds are the point of diminishing return. GM and Ford are co-developing one and I believe it debuts in the 17' Raptor.

BTW, this TV was just announced that might fit the bill for you:

http://www.oled-info.com/tags/companies/panasonic

The consensus from consumers are they want luxury car over-engineered with the best quality whatever they want or seeking from a luxury brand.

Enthusiasts bitched and complained that Cadillac did not had rear wheel drive cars thru out the 80s thru early 00s. Now since Cadillac building the best rear-wheel drive cars in the industry, everybody is complaining and think they are building American BMWs which is dumb logic. Can anyone accuse of Lexus building the Japanese BMW? How about Jaguar building British BMW? How about Alfa Romeo building the French BMW?
LOLz..........


I think what people want more than anything is a car they don't have to take in for repairs. Most of my friends buy toyotas/ lexus and Hondas because they are a known quantity even if some of them don't drive that great or are noisy on the hwy. they don't know what a gm car drives like because they have zero experience.

GM needs to provide some knobs on CUE and install radiators that don't split their plastic side tanks at 28,000 miles, alternators that last and wheel bearings on their fwd offerings that last as well. Get the basic everyday stuff down right.
Lexus reputation for well made, dependable, comfortable vehicles has led to their success. It defines their brand. Not everybody wants a stiff riding sports car.

Let's all hope and pray that the ATS will receive this new gauge cluster that's on this CTS for the model year '16.
Also, please offer the MRC on the ATS with the AWD option. It's just mind numbing how Cadillac/GM in general refuse to offer up fully cooked vehicles.
It definitely could use it, current one sux.
 
What happened with the EPA fuel economy? I figured the 8 speed would put them closer to competing Turbo 4's? Did they just not tune for the EPA test at all, but will perform similarly as far as fuel consumption in most everyday driving? If so, they should have put a bit more effort into tuning for epa fuel economy as many who buy these smaller engine bigger lux cars are looking at that as they often use them for longer commutes.
 
What happened with the EPA fuel economy? I figured the 8 speed would put them closer to competing Turbo 4's? Did they just not tune for the EPA test at all, but will perform similarly as far as fuel consumption in most everyday driving? If so, they should have put a bit more effort into tuning for epa fuel economy as many who buy these smaller engine bigger lux cars are looking at that as they often use them for longer commutes.
Well, its not that big of a deal for a luxury buyer, frankly, if you are going with a 4 Banger, you should probably be shopping elsewhere.
 
Cadillac needs the 2.0T for a number of global markets. That's not a bad thing either IMO. It's the same as how the hands were forced by MB, BMW, Audi, etc to offer V-8 engines in their mid-luxury sedans to cater better to Americans.

I don't get this whole "Germany has a lock on performance, Cadillac must be a comfort barge" argument.
Probably because no one is making it in this thread. :p:

Performance wasn't invented by the Germans. Plus saying Cadillac shouldn't pursue performance because it is already taken by BMW implies Cadillac should aim for comfort.
Depends on what you mean by performance. The Hellcat pair are performance vehicles, but they subscribe to a very American notion of performance: power. And even so, they are modern enough that they do not fall apart in the corners and are generally dynamically competent. But they're not trying to anything other than American. They lack the luxury and class of a Cadillac, but the principle is one that I deem quite fitting for the Cadillac brand.

Personally I think Cadillac's dynamics should be balanced. They shouldn't wallow, but they should feel planted and substantial. It's not that they shouldn't build cars that are dynamically excellent, but making that their USP is the problem - because it's not a USP. Others are doing the same thing, including ones with more history in doing so that are therefore an easier sell to many customers. Audi is an example of a brand that does not market their existence on being a sports product brand. They have sportier products, but they don't treat it as their foundation.

Isn't comfort already taken by Mercedes and Lexus? So by the same argument Cadillac would then be copying Mercedes, because Mercedes invented comfort just as BMW invented performance. So since performance and comfort are already taken, Cadillac and all other tier 2 makes should just give up.
Let's not forget Cadillac has a long, long history in comfort. In the 60s and 70s even as Mercedes was making inroads Cadillacs were still more opulent inside, better riding, etc. A Mercedes was more about the engineering details, solidity, and neutrality. And this was long before Lexus existed in any way - the closest thing would've been the Toyota Century and Crown premium sedans. BMW did not invent performance either, even if they'd want us to believe that. Alfa Romeo was racing in the 50s and 60s. They had sporty cars like the GTA or Spider, plus sport sedans like the Giulia, Giulietta, Milano, 164, and Alfetta. Since Alfa Romeo has not been in the US for a long time many have doubtless forgotten their history, but it's rich and it's there. Jaguar doesn't really market their history all that much in the US, but they too have one of performance. The XK120 was a record-setter and iconic as a sports car. The E-Type is often referred to as one of the most beautiful sports cars (or car, period) of all time. The XJ220 was, like the XK120, briefly the fastest production car in the world. The Mark series were lauded sport sedans in their day, if not especially the Mark 2. The Jaguar XJ was a continuation of that, though without as much greatness. So for them to build a car like the XE or XF is not new for Jaguar. The problem I have with the new XF and XE is that their interiors don't seem Jaguar plush and rather more German than I'd like, the I digress. BMW's real prominence in places like the US probably came about more in the 70s-90s era, well after Alfa and Jaguar had built great histories of performance and sportiness.

As Mercedes continued to grow and became for a time the top selling luxury brand in the US, Lexus also swelled in power and influence. They in fact replaced Mercedes as the top selling luxury brand. While neither were known for sportiness, they were not copies of the other either (as much as Lexus DID copy Mercedes in various ways). Mercedes continued with their engineering excellence and the reputation, deserved or not, for over-engineering products that were at the forefront of technology, safety, and dependability; we know the latter was something Mercedes left a while after that. Lexus' approach focused on refinement, quality, exceptional dealer service. They also were comfortable and restrained like Mercedes, but did manage to market themselves well enough in other ways. It was at this time of course that Cadillac was still building cars that were not divergent in theory, but rather in the final product. Cadillacs too were comfortable, but their image was in a very bad way, so even if the Seville of the 90s was a reasonable competitor to the Lexus GS or Mercedes E-Class, the import brands had more cache. Lexus used consistently compelling marketing to overcome their lack of an image while Cadillac's was still going in the wrong direction. The Northstar was as advanced as anything that contended with it from Germany or Japan. But Cadillacs weren't really about racing. Sure they had in the 30s or 50s, but that wasn't what their brand was built upon. That's why for Alfa or Jaguar a sport sedan is heralded as adding to their legacy, whereas Lexus or Cadillac doing it is changing the brand's image altogether.
 
Looks great with those wheels! I love how the rags are now saying Cadillac has the car that outperforms it's competition but the snobs still won't buy them. The only thing that's going to have Cadillac stand out is super styling! This is nice but it's not Elmiraj nice!
 
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