Besides Alpha, what else is there? Once the Camaro moves to Alpha, Zeta is gone. Omega might be too large and expensive to form the base of a new Commodore that, if we're to believe our Australians friends here, none of them would ever under any circumstances buy.

 

Currently, nothing. But Reuss keeps hinting at cheaper than Alpha architecture and has mentioned that a Torana type car could be developed from it.

As far as the last part, I think emotions are still running high at the moment.

 

The Chevrolet SS looks pretty good on paper, but I'm not sure about the blingy chrome. Does it come in RHD?

 

Well that car is available today to the Australian market, in RHD form, as the Holden Commodore. After the Commodore ceases production the Chevy version dies with it.

Now, Commodore is far from first and Falcon is all but extinct. Does the Australian market even want RWD anymore?

Good question.

 

An Alpha based sedan, engineered in Detroit, very similar (RHD vs. LHD) to a North American 2016/17 Chevrolet.

Manufactured in two locations:
1. North America for local markets.
2. Asia to be exported to Australia and other foreign markets.

*Along with a Buick variant on each assembly line.

 

An Alpha based sedan, engineered in Detroit, very similar (RWD vs. LHD) to a North American 2016/17 Chevrolet.

Manufactured in two locations:
1. North America for local markets.
2. Asia to be exported to Australia and other foreign markets.

*Along with a Buick variant on each assembly line.

Why would Chevy and Buick release a similarly-sized RWD vehicle at the same time? Would the Torana be a rebadged Chevy, traditional 3 box shaped sedan, while the Buick target the 4 door coupe market? I'm much more in favor of Buick getting a highly stylized alpha based product over Chevy. I think GM could get a much higher profit margin as well.

C&D speculated the Regal would move to RWD by 2015, but since there haven't been any photos of test mules out there, I'm skeptical Buick will get an alpha-based product anytime in the next few years.

 

In the context of GM, then rear-wheel drive is a North America / Australia / China only product - so it needs a flexible-size RWD platform developing for all models that "must" have RWD to share the platform costs.

The other world major manufacturers have already developed their "flexible-size" platforms - it's time GM did.

 

Ok since GM hit the Aussies with a cricket bat across the face by reducing their operations there. Will GM finally get some sense and increase their presence and footprint in California?

GM since you mauled the Australians and Holden. What are you doing to seriously get back in the action along the west coast?

 

It seemed that Australia was the last bastion for good old RWD performance and pedestrian automobiles just a decade ago. The Commodore was the perenial best-seller and Falcon sold well also.
Now, Commodore is far from first and Falcon is all but extinct. Does the Australian market even want RWD anymore?

 

Does the Australian market even want RWD anymore?

Good question. Or maybe a better one might be, does GM even go after a 30,000-40,000 unit segment in Australia?

 

STEP 1: Create Alpha Chevrolets.

STEP 2: Form a co-op with HSV for them to run the Holden brand (NOTE: No ownership exchange)

STEP 3: Introduce Chevrolet in Australia to sell run-of-the-mill stuff to compete against the Asians. (READ: No Alpha products)

STEP 4: Elevate Holden to what it should be (and essentially was anyway) a niche seller of one to three nameplates. All of those nameplates would be tuned for the Aussie market by HSV.

Need help spreading the HSV development costs?

STEP 5: Re-introduce Pontiac as what it SHOULD BE as well, except for this side of the globe.

Let's not kid ourselves... Holden had been reduced to a 1-line niche manufacturer anyway. And that was likely to end when the current V Series ended, as Holden would've then just assembled a second Chevrolet model.

Makes perfect sense to me... But, since GM seems hell-bent on destroying their storied marques and selling one brand of watered down crap to everyone in the world, I doubt it makes sense to them.

 

Hypothetical,
Chevrolet uses an affordable version of Alpha for Camaro and Lumina, a companion four door sedan similar in size to
CTS and offers both to Opel/Vauxhall in Europe and Chevrolet in Rest of the world including Australia and other RHD markets. The cars are available with 2.0 Turbo, 3.6 V6 and Gen 5 V8.

That would achieve two goals,

1) increase production/exports for existing US plants

2) eliminate complication and duplicated costs of local production in Australia.

I believe this has been the alternate plan for at least three years, regardless of whether
the proposed Commodore replacement was FWD/AWD Impala or RWD "Alpha"

HSV could then continue in its current role developing specific versions of the imports
that may arrive semi finished or as completed units but post production modified...

 

RWD and Holden, what now? DEAD. GM certainly doesn't want to say that but if you were putting money on it that's the safe bet.

 

IMHO for GM to have any relevance in Australia, Holden needs to have a mainstream RWD product post 2017.

I believe the main reason for the slowdown in sales was more due to the fact VE was on the market for nearly 7 years with minimal cosmetic changes, private owners don't want to trade their car in on another that looks the same, they want a "new" car. VF could've helped bring the sales up but much the same as when Ford announced it was quiting manufacturing the sales will most likely slow down further now.

 

The VF Commodore is the selling really well and if you want a V8 you usually have to wait.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/254410/car-sales-september-2013-winners-losers/

I believe that it has gone to number 3 in October.

 

You know, when you look at those figures, you realize that the Commodore sells in similar volume in Australia as the Corvette does in the US.

 

As the dust stills settles on the Holden announcement this week, what is the best approach at supplying Holden with RWD cars post 2017? Would that even be in the cards? RHD would be required, obviously.

Would it be based on Alpha or something else?

Would it be Commodore sized or smaller, like a modern Torana?


Would it come from the US or China?

Will North American car development be altered to include Holden?

So many questions. Let's discuss......

Alpha. Think the Torana concept

 

New VF's seem to be popping up everywhere. They stuffed up by delaying it. Would you buy another iPhone 3 if after 7 years it was exactly the same. Well why would you buy a 7 year old new car.

Now they will probably hide figures on how well it is selling and they will probably open new plants in the US.

 

I won't be buying an imported Holden. Heck very soon I don't think many people will be able to afford a car.

Australia is on the brink of destruction. We are heading into a depression of 1930's magnitude. If not worse. We are losing industries at breakneck speed and will continue to do so unless we decide to do something.

Somehow we need the Australian dollar to drop very soon to US60c or less. We need imports to become expensive extremely soon for any manufacturing to become viable in this country again.

 

I am a Holden fan, not a GM fan as such. It's our brand and goes back a long way. If they think we are all just going to buy imported cars, then their marketing people aren't doing their research. It would be the equivalent of you guys being told you home town baseball/football side is being shipped to another Country yet they still want you to support them with the same passion. It is now a brand on life support.

 

I hear you, but I've got news for you. You ARE going to buy imported cars.

 

I hate to put a blanket on this but I am not sure if people realize how fragile Cadillac is at GM....

Cadillac have been paralleling Holden in that they have recently been losing money, even with a great product are not selling as well as they need against foreign opposition, need a costly unique RWD platform to survive, and could be cancelled tomorrow by GM headquarters and not even make a blip in their profit sheets.

The Cadillac experiment by GM is still in a state of flux.

In light of the Holden decision I think it makes it less likely that Chevy or Buick get RWD. Yes Reuss now has the job Lutz had, but I talked with Lutz a lot and he did not have the real power. Reuss will only be able to make the cars he is 'told' he can make by his boss who he was passed over in favor of. She and the Board will make the real calls about these overarching long term decisions.

If Omega hits the market and flops, if ATS and CTS fail to make ground in Europe or other markets outside NA, they do not have the domestic volume to justify renewal. And we have now seen what New GM does when justification does not exist...

If the Cadillac experiment fails or falters then you could see them back on FWD or just running out old outdated RWD platforms in a decade. And without Cadillac where do you think GM is on RWD? Back to Corvette only.

Welcome to a new era when GM now makes quick hard headed, profit making (and to hell with sentiment) business decisions...

I just can't see the volume to justify a Commodore style sport sedan off the costly Alpha platform. It's one thing to do a Camaro which can command a premium and which as a halo model can suffer small margins, but not when a sedan can be done on FWD/AWD and a turbo V6 motor instead. I'd look to see GM make a AWD performance version of Impala before an RWD Alpha Chevelle, or a AWD performance Cruze coupe before a Code 130R...

 

Just a couple points:

1) GM will go under before it let's Cadillac go.

2) I'd bet each Alpha car costs GM less to manufacture that each Zeta car does. 5th gen and 6th gen Camaro included. A developed supplier network and busy assembly line will contribute to that.

 

Holden can use Alpha+ form the CTS. Build it in China along with the Chinese market Cadillacs as long as the exchange rates work out.

 

No doubt Camaro's will make it to Aussie shores, that's great! If I want a 2 door sports car I will buy a low mileage Monaro. But I have kids and I may want a 4door V8 wagon or sedan. I currently drive a VE Ute for work. What have the bean counters at GM got to offer me. Malibu!

 

ONE way I could see this play out

#1 Omega CADDY gets announced for 2015 MY
#2 Holden designers go to CHINA and "HELP" lead a push to "cost effectivize" OMEGA for a Buick Park AVENUE "formal sedan" eased around back seat comfort for 2016 MY
#3 that PA gets offered to Buick NA so GM can go after the "BLACK CAR" segment and be a BASE for LIMO's /HEARST's ETC shows up 2017 MY mid 2016 as XTS goes in to run out
#4 CHEVY NA / AND HOLDEN shorten the Chinese Park Ave into a 4 DR coupe to be a replacement for the Commie and CHEVY SS/ Impala/ PPV

#1 produced in USA AND China LHD
#2 CHINA LHD
#3 USA
#4 ASIA / USA WITH #3 ASIA RHD and USA LHD

 

#4 CHEVY NA / AND HOLDEN shorten the Chinese Park Ave into a 4 DR coupe to be a replacement for the Commie and CHEVY SS/ Impala/ PPV

The Chinese Park Ave is currently built from a CKD packs supplied by GM-H Elizabeth (in South Australia). It is the slightly longer version of Zeta we call a Caprice & the US get as the Chevy PPV.

Maybe they will just move the robots etc. from the Holden plant to Korea or China & continue making Zetas RWD cars & their successors for export to Aust. That would keep a lot of potential Holden buyers happy post 2017, surely ?

Dr Terry

 

My prediction is no more RWD Holdens, just rebadged FWD Chevrolets from Korea.

 

Well I assume it would be possible to build Alpha Holdrolets in South Korea for consumption wherever a RWD is required. Not putting money on it.

 

Idea and hopes for GM's RWD plans...

LGR - Capacity @ 200-250k
-ATS, ATS coupe/cab, ATS hatch - 50k
-CTS, CTS coupe/cab, CTS wagon - 30k
-Omega - 30k
(LTS, Riviera, fleet-only XTS replacement)
-Camaro - 90k
(/Torana coupe?)

Alpha Plant #2 - Capacity @ 200-250k
-ARX, ARX coupe - 30k
-Terrain, Terrain coupe - 60k
(Evoque-type vehicle, mated to ARX)
-SRX, SRX coupe - 30k
-Acadia, Acadia coupe - 50k
(mated to SRX)
-Small Sports Coupe - 40k
(Chevrolet Code + Holden?, O-V Manta, ALR)

Alpha Plant #3 - Capacity @ 200-250k
-Alpha+ lite (sedan) - 70k
(Commodore, SS, Regal, Opel)
-Alpha+ lite (coupe) - 45k
(Chevelle/Monaro/Monza/Regal coupe)
-Country Tourer - 20k
-Torana sedan? - ?

Plant 3 is a little light on product, but... better minds.



Now, a clarification of ideas:

• Buick/GMC generally follow the scheme of producing a vehicle that is, compared to a comparable Cadillac, one price tier cheaper with equivalent performance.
  
  Example: Buick Regal (midsize) shares Alpha+ with the CTS, but priced like an ATS with matching ATS powertrains.
  
• Torana could be essentially a two and four door Camaro for Australia, sedan possibly being sold domestically as well as a Chevrolet. 3-door hatch possible as alternative or supplement to four door, Velo competitor+Nomad revival (in spirit)?
  
• Small Sports Coupe (SSC) would basically be a 130R+Opel/Vauxhall Manta and possibly being an alternate form for the Torana to take rather than more Camaro-like vehicle. Would also build Z4/SLK fighting ALR
  
• Alpha+ lite would produce a new, legit RWD Regal (but would be mostly AWD performance) with a companion Opel. Aesthetically and spiritually differentiated would be a Holden/Vauxhall Commodore and Chevrolet SS.
  
• Alpha+ lite would also produce a mid-size Chevelle and companion Monaro for Chevrolet, Holden, and Vauxhall, respectively. Buick and Opel would get Regal and Monza companions sharing different aesthetics and AWD-focused performance characteristics just like their sedan counterparts.
  
• Ute is possible? Possibly with a similar unibody S-10 based of off the crossover version of Alpha? Country Tourer based?

Of course, I expect very little if any of this to come to fruition.

 

Most logical architecture would be the rumored "low cost Alpha" as a 5-Door Sedan/Hatch like the Torana concept that could add Wagon and Tall Wagon (Outback) variants with main markets being Australia, New Zealand and the UK which means there must be Holden, Opel and Vauxhall variants. This is easily accomplished by using the same design with Holden, Opel and Vauxhall badges.

Australia, New Zealand, Japan and the UK are all island countries that are extremely "independent" and loyal to "local" products and all happen to be RHD nations that also favor Hatchbacks and Wagons that represent a "single" market that is spread across cultures and the globe but can be served by a "single" brand that happens to use three badges with different names.

GM must keep the Holden name and align future product with Vauxhall (RHD Opel), manufacture them in the locations making the most sense in the 2017 and on time frame. Sell them as Holdens in Australia, Opel (LHD) in China, Opel in East/West Europe, Ireland, Russia, South America, Opel (RHD) in Japan (and other RHD Asian/ASEAN countries) and Vauxhalls in the UK.

Obviously Buick and Chevrolet would offer Sedan (Regal/Chevelle) variants of the 5-Door Hatch along with Coupe version(s) for Buick (Riviera) and possibly Chevy (Monte Carlo) and look to share it with Camaro in the future. Holden, Opel and Vauxhall will also offer Coupe/Sedan versions to further spread costs.

A smaller/lighter RWD Coupe/Hatch/Sedan/Wagon for Holden and other brands using base I-4 power for MPG makes a lot of sense that properly designed and marketed at proper feature/price points for each brand will be profitable for GM and improve it's global image.

 

GM must keep the Holden name and align future product with Vauxhall (RHD Opel), manufacture them in the locations making the most sense in the 2017 and on time frame. Sell them as Holdens in Australia, Opel (LHD) in China, Opel in East/West Europe, Ireland, Russia, South America, Opel (RHD) in Japan (and other RHD Asian/ASEAN countries) and Vauxhalls in the UK.

That sounds a neat arrangement - but different markets need different capabilities - Australians have long needed different things to Europeans, they don't/won't/can't just take European products nor vice-versa so integrating Holden and Opel/Vauxhall will always be anything but simple, regardless of the badge on the bonnet/hood. China and Russia wiil always be different, they're very polarised between ultimate luxury and absolute bargain basement, the two extremes that neither Holden or Opel/Vauxhall are in or ever want to be.

 

If GM can't/won't make RHD RWD cars then GM Australia will need to accept further market contraction and only sell small FWD cars there.

The idea that a single body styling will work around the world doesn't work, tastes differ - platforms may be common but the sheet metal won't be.

Without a manufacturing facility to hand, it's not that straight-forward to "revise" Opel components - as Vauxhall know, it's limited to spring, damper and anti-roll (anti-sway) bar rates - not that GM always lets Vauxhall even do that, at Detroit's insistence the Mokka (Trax) was launched with Europe-wide suspension settings and so badly criticised in UK road tests that Vauxhall-only settings were hurriedly introduced.

 

RWD 4-door sedans will be manufactured and sold in NA and exported as well. Maybe the PPV Caprice can become price and time-to-the customer competitive with the Dodge Charger. RWD/AWD 4-door sedans will not be reserved for Cadillac only.

My heart goes out to the Australian worker. I have been in that spot and it will get better.

 

Saw this on news.com.au this morning. If you believe what they are saying, it will come from from China and FWD. There is a lot of time between now then though. Auto development time not so much!
http://www.news.com.au/national/the...al/the-2017-holden-commodore-will-be-made-in-china/story-fncynjr2-1226783057648

 

They should just rename that car to Chevrolet & let the Holden name fade away? Just my opinion. So that way GM can market all its cars "Chevy" instead of Holden for Australia & Chevy for other country...