What do they mean the 6-speed can't take that much power? You can ALWAYS upgrade the internal components to higher strengths to take more of a beating. I call BS on anything that says they can't be designed to take up to 350 HP.

 

What do they mean the 6-speed can't take that much power? You can ALWAYS upgrade the internal components to higher strengths to take more of a beating. I call BS on anything that says they can't be designed to take up to 350 HP.

ok this is more accurate: the CURRENT 6F cannot take it ... also it seems Ford has been unwilling/incapable of upgrading it - which is one reason they have kept the Triton V8's under 300hp

(Sidenote: the deciding factr in transmission life is torque not HP - so that might be the trick .. )

PS: this is all RUMORS .... I read all this on BOF ... so there is a likelhood is mistakes/BS included

Igor

 

ok this is more accurate: the CURRENT 6F cannot take it ... also it seems Ford has been unwilling/incapable of upgrading it - which is one reason they have kept the Triton V8's under 300hp

(Sidenote: the deciding factr in transmission life is torque not HP - so that might be the trick .. )

PS: this is all RUMORS .... I read all this on BOF ... so there is a likelhood is mistakes/BS included

Igor

I figured it was from BOF. Some of those people should know better.

 

5.0l V8
Motortrend had a piece on Lincoln building a 5.0l V8 - not much else is known, but if based on the D35/D37 this could be pushing out 440hp - now, to be sure, the rumors, of Ford using the new V6 family, and tagging 2 more cylinders have been claimed untrue several times, but at this point, that is the only scenario that lets us assume anything of the new V8 engine. This V8 will not be ready for MKS launch.

Igor

The only other engine I have heard of from the D35 family is a 4.0 (D40). Consider this to be a rumor though, I heard this once and I have not heard about it again. I would think a new V8 would have to be of the BOSS family.

 

3.7l Lincoln-Eclusive V6
The word has it - they are getting 320hp on regular gas at this point. The problem is - the 6F (GM/Ford) Transmission is not designed to handle such power - no anwer is apparent of what transmission they will use instead.
Igor

This is BS. 320 on regular out of a 3.7 basically requires DI at this point, especially running on regular. Also its stupid, anything over 300 in a FWD applications is silly. Ford knows that. Why redesign the trans internals to handle a little extra torque. The HF 3.6 is loaded with every feature there is short of DI and they got that to 275 on regular - and thats an achievement. Actually I think based on displacement thats class leading on regular w/o DI.

A D40 running regular could break 300, but even then 320 would be doubtful without premium or DI.

Now, maybe its possible they are doing DI, knowing full well GM is moving there quick with the Cadillac engines. but that would probably be part of the rumor, or heard elsewhere. Its tough to keep that a secret b/c of supplier issues.

 

This is BS. 320 on regular out of a 3.7 basically requires DI at this point, especially running on regular. Also its stupid, anything over 300 in a FWD applications is silly. Ford knows that. Why redesign the trans internals to handle a little extra torque. The HF 3.6 is loaded with every feature there is short of DI and they got that to 275 on regular - and thats an achievement. Actually I think based on displacement thats class leading on regular w/o DI.

A D40 running regular could break 300, but even then 320 would be doubtful without premium or DI.

I agree with you on what power they are claiming but DI is not the "power adder" everyone is talking it up to be. Most manufacturers claim around 5% additional hp. The hype is added because most companies also made other improvements to their engines at the same time as bringing DI on board so everyone thinks DI contributed 100% of the gains.

Lincoln could sure use the 320hp though, with the AWD MKZ

Why does Ford and GM always design their trannies to just barely handle the current hp levels when everyone knows they will coninue to go up creating a mad scramble to also improve the trannies. Build them with room to grow it's not much more expensive and might even be cheaper in the long run.

 

320 without premium is a tall order...

 

I agree with you on what power they are claiming but DI is not the "power adder" everyone is talking it up to be. Most manufacturers claim around 5% additional hp. The hype is added because most companies also made other improvements to their engines at the same time as bringing DI on board so everyone thinks DI contributed 100% of the gains.

Lincoln could sure use the 320hp though, with the AWD MKZ

DI allows you to raise compression slightly without requirting premium.

 

DI allows you to raise compression slightly without requirting premium.

Sorta, but that's the same as adding VVT (and people think DI is magic and VVT isn't when in reality they probably are closer to being equal).

DI's biggest gain is in fuel usage.

 

DI allows you to raise compression slightly without requirting premium.

That's true and I never said there are no power gains but the gains are much smaller than most people realize.

I definately agree that 320hp without premium is a tall order. I would even go as far to say as not a chance.

 

Actually, it might be true.
bumping up the the size of the engine to 3.7 will bump the HP to 280, I don't see why it's impossible to gain 40 HP when the engine right now doesn't have any much going on.

DI + VVT will get it easily to 320, if GM can get 50 more HP from the HF then so can Ford.

Now, maybe its possible they are doing DI, knowing full well GM is moving there quick with the Cadillac engines. but that would probably be part of the rumor, or heard elsewhere. Its tough to keep that a secret b/c of supplier issues.

tsk tsk tsk, you don't know where the DI in Toyota's 3.5 came from do you?

 

This is BS. 320 on regular out of a 3.7 basically requires DI at this point, especially running on regular. Also its stupid, anything over 300 in a FWD applications is silly. Ford knows that. Why redesign the trans internals to handle a little extra torque. The HF 3.6 is loaded with every feature there is short of DI and they got that to 275 on regular - and thats an achievement. Actually I think based on displacement thats class leading on regular w/o DI.

A D40 running regular could break 300, but even then 320 would be doubtful without premium or DI.

Now, maybe its possible they are doing DI, knowing full well GM is moving there quick with the Cadillac engines. but that would probably be part of the rumor, or heard elsewhere. Its tough to keep that a secret b/c of supplier issues.

Some of the technology in Engine's is not owned by the OEM, some of it is supplier tech. That tech you see spreading much faster as the supplier can sell it to anyone. It all depends on who owns the patent for a specific function. A lot of Engine Management tech is not owned by OEM's

 

I read more about this rumor and found that the 320hp figure came from testing. That means the engine is capable of that much power but a lot of engines are capable of more power than what they are released with. The only way to really know is wait for production.

 

Some of the technology in Engine's is not owned by the OEM, some of it is supplier tech. That tech you see spreading much faster as the supplier can sell it to anyone. It all depends on who owns the patent for a specific function. A lot of Engine Management tech is not owned by OEM's

Exactly - guess I misspoke, thats why I find it doubtful this engine is using DI, b/c we would have heard about it by now. Its the supplier / OEM interface where many rumors are leaked.

As far as the DI isn't magic claims, you can use it to seriously boost power, or fuel econ. Most pick a balance of the two, but if you let fuel econ fall as it normally does with more power, and then put all of the DI's benefits into power, you'd see 320 or more from a 3.7 is possible - but with premium. Most automakers like to keep fuel econ same or better, and then the DI power gain is modest.

Big Swede, I guess that makes sense, so they can spin it up to 7000-7500 without if falling apart on a test rig. That would result in the hp - now if we only had a torque rumor.

 

interesting discussion we have here ..

I agree anything north of 300hp in FWd is dumb - but all Lincolns are either RWD or AWD (optional) - so it is easy to simply restict the availability of the D37 to AWD application - or even move all Lincolns to AWD only - would not be unheard of.

I am almost positive the Lincoln engine will have DI - this is LINCOLN engine - not Ford engine.

about the V8 - this is not the BOSS - or it is an offshoot of BOSS - BOSS is to be MUCH bigger (5.8l and 6.2) not smaller than MOD ... there has been continuous rumor of parallel project to BOSS developing a more flexible, smaller displacement V8's - it has always been faint - so we will have to wait a little for any certainty.

Igor

 

I know someone who can say a word or two in this topic.

Igor, I think Lincolns will all be AWD/RWD from now on, if Lincoln is going to recieve special engines, that means they will be more powerful than their Ford counterparts, that will make AWD standard, and will boost Ford's vision of %50 AWD sales in '12.

 

Quotes:
Originally Posted by T-Type
...I would think a new V8 would have to be of the BOSS family.
Originally Posted by igor
...an offshoot of BOSS - BOSS is to be MUCH bigger (5.8l and 6.2) not smaller than MOD...

Although, according to my tabulation, there are 3 main types of BOSSes:
- BOSS 5.0 - which I still believe has a block based on an averaged-stroke MOD;
- BOSS 5.8-6.2-7.0 liter - the e.f.k.a.Hurricane;
- crate engines - 302-331-347-363 cu.in (4.95 to 5.95 liters)
It'd be reeeeal interesting if 'Only Lincoln' (future trademark?) could be had with a 'crate engine' from the factory...

Quotes:
Originally Posted by DuSpinnst
...DI's biggest gain is in fuel usage.
Originally Posted by goblue
...DI isn't magic claims, you can use it to seriously boost power, or fuel econ...
...so they can spin it up to 7000-7500 without if falling apart...

Imho/afaik, DI basically improves control of the engines' characteristics / add in clean emissions...
anyone remember those old 4way surround-sound equalizers like a joystick? When you boost one 'axis', you reduce performance in the at least one other 'axis'...

 

Finally, something from Lincoln that makes me smile........

About that H.O. V6.........if it can make 320hp (which I doubt at this point....) , it has the potential to spank the 3.6 HF that will go in some of the smaller Cadillacs. That would be quite an achievement too........coming from a brand most consider to be near death.........


Despite the cloud of questions surrounding the 5.0L V8.......I'm liking it. Lincoln could be finally getting a 'Northstar'-type V8 of it's own???

However......I've got a question of my own........

What else are they going to use these engines in? They sound great for the MKS.....(H.O. V6--base?? New 5.0L--uplevel/optional??).........but unless Lincoln has some aces in it's sleeve in regard to product planning......they sound like two more expensive gambles to go along with the one big gamble they've already got (the MKS)....

Hell......they could always shore up the Panther platform, take care of their tranny troubles and shoehorn that 5.0L beast in between the Town Car's flanks......:lmao:

 

The K series ofcourse, a blast from the past.

 

Why isn't the new 6speed tranny capable of handling 320HP? I mean, it "just" 320HP.

Nissan's VQ was making 300HP during the tranny's development. It doesn't take a genius to predict that the VQ will go even further north of 300HP in a few years. For the sake of competition, it would have been logical to design the new tranny to handle power at that kind of level... like 320HP?

Ford and GM never planned to compete with the VQ or what?

 

the D37 is to replace the D35's in MKZ and MKX .... the D37 is to be the base engine for the brand ... the 5.0l is to be optional ... the TTV6 could be another optional engine.

Igor

 

What do they mean the 6-speed can't take that much power? You can ALWAYS upgrade the internal components to higher strengths to take more of a beating. I call BS on anything that says they can't be designed to take up to 350 HP.

There could well be a basic design problem, such as the case being too small to house larger beefed-up parts. However I really hope that's not the case, because it would be incredibly shortsighted.

Ford has had a FWD tranny capable of 260hp since 1995 (Lincoln Continental), and GM has had them holding up to 290hp Northstars since '92. After more than a decade, I really hope they could jointly come up with a tranny that's better in more ways than just having 2 more gears.

 

I'm sure they wouldn't invest in a new engine before making sure there is a transmission for it.

 

This is BS. 320 on regular out of a 3.7 basically requires DI at this point, especially running on regular. Also its stupid, anything over 300 in a FWD applications is silly. Ford knows that. Why redesign the trans internals to handle a little extra torque. The HF 3.6 is loaded with every feature there is short of DI and they got that to 275 on regular - and thats an achievement. Actually I think based on displacement thats class leading on regular w/o DI.

A D40 running regular could break 300, but even then 320 would be doubtful without premium or DI.

I was under the impression that the 3.7 liter Lincoln Duratec was twin turbocharged? In which case Ford should have ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM making 100hp/liter and getting 370-400hp out of it.

300-320ish may be doable on a normally aspirated D35 at 3.7liters.

Considering a stock d35 with the crappy space saving valvetrain and severely limited variable valve timing can do 265hp and 250lb ft. without really revving over 6500RPM, it is believable. Here is why:


--Adding a better valvetrain to handle higher RPM's and much better variable valve timing on the intake and exhaust to keep a flat power band, especially at those higher RPMs, would probably put the power figures at 275-285hp. This would just show more usable power over higher RPM's (kinda like the Acura 3.5 in the TL-S), which is where the increased HP numbers come from. Improvements like these would have very little in the way of benefitting torque, so I estimate maybe 255lb ft?


-- Adding DI usually increases torque. I wouldn't be surprised if the addition of DI would increase that by 10-15lb ft. So, lets say 265lb ft of torque. With that bump in torque, since HP is directly related to torque and how usable it is, that would probably put HP numbers somewhere in the range of 295-300.


-- Increase that displacement to 3.7 liters and there you go, 320ish hp on regular gas no problem.



Hopefully ford will do this, and then offer the twin turbocharged version making 370-400hp.

But most likely they will just take the current D35, bore it out to 3.7, slap some twin turbos on, and call it good....making probably only 330hp or so.

 

Isn't the VQ in the new G35 putting out 306 bhp without DI? (though I think it requires premium) So it shouldn't be that big of stretch for a 3.7 to make 320 bhp without DI.