Their simple chops looks better with the Caddilac logo than with the bowtie. The Volt CONCPET was very Science and Art.

 

The E-Flex drivetrain was initially demonstrated in the 2007 Chevrolet Volt concept vehicle that appeared in the North American International Auto Show which introduced the E-Flex drive system as an attempt to standardize many components of possible future electrically-propelled vehicles, and to allow multiple interchangeable electricity-generating systems. The initial design as envisioned in the Volt combines an electric motor and 16 kWh (58 MJ) lithium-ion battery plug-in system with a small engine (1 liter) powered by gasoline linked to a 53 kW (71 hp) generator. The intitial production Volt will be propelled by an electric motor with a peak output of 120 kW (160 hp). Ordinarily, the Volt would be charged while at home overnight (plug-in hybrid-mode) through one of its two charging ports for convenience, one on each side of the vehicle. A full charge reportedly takes 10 hours from a standard North American 120 V, 15 A household outlet.
Where have ya found science and art in it ?
I think it is more of a historic assumption to me !!!

 

I REALLY hope that this comes to pass.....E-Flex could let GM surpass the competition AND the new CAFE regs in one leap.

 

It would be a good idea.. a luxury extended range electric vehicle! This would be somthing Hollywood would get into... like the Escalade and Prius!

 

No.

Delta.

Cadillacs.

Period.

I have no problem with GM wanting to sell a premium Volt... just don't make it a Cadillac.

Easy solution here, which I've mentioned before. Take the Delta II architecture that the Volt is on, and sculpt a slippery curvy body for it, and call it the Buick Electra. Slather the interior with wood, aluminum, and leather, and get it to BPG showroom ASAP.

 

Who said it would be a car? It will simply be running on E-Flex.

 

Who are you? You seem to always have inside info. I don't think having a Cadillac version is bad as long as it's not a simple rebadge. Remember, Lexus is planning a version of the next Prius.

 

I've been thinking this is EXACTLY what GM needs to do. Be the first one in the high-efficiency luxury car business. There's a huge advantage to being the first mover - think about the Mustang. Forever in the lead in the ponycar biz, no matter how bad Ford tried to kill it.

An electric Caddy. It seems perfect - absolute silence, massive torque. And the Volt's already got a wide stance, which will provide tons of Cadillac grade elbow room. And it has a long wheelbase for its length, which should make for a nice ride. All of these ingredients should make for a great Caddy.

And I bet you could charge a cover-the-cost price for it as a Caddy. And the poster above has an (almost) great idea: name it the Ampere. Sounds elegant, means electric. Perfect.

The extra cost of a Cadillac variant would be minimal within the context of the Volt program. Just differentiate it adequately.


A further thought: the Volt's a halo. If you can spread the light from the halo wider, so much the better.

 

I've been thinking this is EXACTLY what GM needs to do. Be the first one in the high-efficiency luxury car business. There's a huge advantage to being the first mover - think about the Mustang. Forever in the lead in the ponycar biz, no matter how bad Ford tried to kill it.

An electric Caddy. It seems perfect - absolute silence, massive torque. And the Volt's already got a wide stance, which will provide tons of Cadillac grade elbow room. And it has a long wheelbase for its length, which should make for a nice ride. All of these ingredients should make for a great Caddy.

And I bet you could charge a cover-the-cost price for it as a Caddy. And the poster above has an (almost) great idea: name it the Ampere. Sounds elegant, means electric. Perfect.

The extra cost of a Cadillac variant would be minimal within the context of the Volt program. Just differentiate it adequately.


A further thought: the Volt's a halo. If you can spread the light from the halo wider, so much the better.

NO!!It Can't be a rebadged Volt. It must be a luxury vehicle with an E-flex drivetrain. It must scream "Caddilac", not "rebadged Chevy". Honestly, would you want to pay luxury prices for a chevy? The Volt will be a FANTASTIC car , but it ain't a Caddy .

 

The problem with GM is that they seem to think that building the Volt will all of a suddenly make people start buying trucks and SUVs once more. This seems to be the extent of their plans............

 

Wow!

Just keep Lutz away from the design team this time

 

"The NEW Allante"

:bounce: :bounce:
Like Kelly Bundy said.

No really though, GM will likely move E-Flex across the entire board. It will pay for the R&D costs, pass Cafe and lead in technology. Leases have been cut, because the lenders don't want the cars back, since gas only autos will be low volume.

 

A higher end Volt for those who don't want a Chevy? Why not?

 

A "higher-end" volt? In my opinion, GM sent the wrong message by making the volt a Chevy in the first place. That message was - "everyman's car". While the Volt may someday get there, volumes for the first 5 years seem better suited to Cadillac. Paying $40K for a delta-sized vehicle, quiet cruising without ICE, the luxury of never having to go to a gas station, the leading edge technology - these all seem more consistent with Cadillac's image. I don't think it cheapens Cadillac's image, but reinforces it.

The way GM went about this, it's clear that the car was meant to burnish GM's image at the expense of Chevy's brand identity. Basically to sell people on the idea that GM was single handedly taking the automobile out of the environmental discussion. If it were my company, I'd have started the car at Cadillac, and then moved it to Chevy when the volumes made sense. The advantages are plenty -

Caddy has a smaller dealer body to train, and are more likely to already have mailing lists of high-income customers who are more likely to buy the first few years anyway. In my mind, the Volt should offer -
Special attention to customers - buying a car so different, they should be treated as special
Training/ Familiarization - more than the 15 minute deal you get with a normal car
Closer customer relationship to get early warnings back to HQ

Cadillac is more likely to get a "high tech" image boost from the Volt than Chevy is. What with all the Korean made pushrods that make up the rest of Chevy's fleet (sarcasm).

 

WILL GM EVER LEARN? RE-BADGING THE VOLT TO ALL DIVISIONS!

This is exactly what GM doesn't need to do. When they had Oldsmobile, it was the testing ground for Cadillac technology. After the technology was proven it was later introduced into a premium car (Toronado, then Eldorado). The Volt or whatever name GM decides on should be introduced as a Buick (as earlier stated by wescoent) then as popularity increases and market conditions allow, a more full featured Hybrid can be released to Cadillac as a premium Alpha. This car would be smaller than a CTS, but would sell for around the same dollar amount, with Hybrid technology and state of the art, light body construction, i.e. a new kind of Cadillac, not just a small car!

The thought about a small Cadillac just for being small, makes me cringe, I don't see it as a good marketing choice. Read articles: Cadillac is thought of World Wide as a large, grand car, build something else, you have a "White Elephant." Something that must be given away, and will not sell. Don't fool yourselves, many people in this forum are for it, but these same people have said time and time again, "they won't buy Cadillac." They hate the dealerships, the service records, and the offerings. These are the types that expect "perfection" in an imperfect world, and just have a lot of time on their hands to talk about things, there will be no pay days with them, only banter!

In closing, I don't think the Volt should be sold by Chevrolet, or Cadillac now. It's would be better offered through Buick, and after refinement, maybe after greater exposure, a more advanced offering someday can be offered by Cadillac.


:drive:

 

WILL GM EVER LEARN? RE-BADGING THE VOLT TO ALL DIVISIONS!

This is exactly what GM doesn't need to do. When they had Oldsmobile, it was the testing ground for Cadillac technology. After the technology was proven it was later introduced into a premium car (Toronado, then Eldorado). The Volt or whatever name GM decides on should be introduced as a Buick (as earlier stated by wescoent) then as popularity increases and market conditions allow, a more full featured Hybrid can be released to Cadillac as a premium Alpha. This car would be smaller than a CTS, but would sell for around the same dollar amount, with Hybrid technology and state of the art, light body construction, i.e. a new kind of Cadillac, not just a small car!

The thought about a small Cadillac just for being small, makes me cringe, I don't see it as a good marketing choice. Read articles: Cadillac is thought of World Wide as a large, grand car, build something else, you have a "White Elephant." Something that must be given away, and will not sell. Don't fool yourselves, many people in this forum are for it, but these same people have said time and time again, "they won't buy Cadillac." They hate the dealerships, the service records, and the offerings. These are the types that expect "perfection" in an imperfect world, and just have a lot of time on their hands to talk about things, there will be no pay days with them, only banter!

In closing, I don't think the Volt should be sold by Chevrolet, or Cadillac now. It's would be better offered through Buick, and after refinement, maybe after greater exposure, a more advanced offering someday can be offered by Cadillac.
:drive:

I agree with you that badge engineering is a dead end, but three things in your post bothered me:

The assumption that Cadillacs should always be BIG. That's what got Cadillac to where it is, change or die - as they say. This thing will be exclusive, very quiet, and the owner will never have to touch a gas pump. That's the sweetspot of Luxury now, not having 2.5 tons of steel around you. Your reference to the Alpha is already a good example of this trend, as is the Audi line, the expected Lexus Prius, etc.

The implication that GM should seek to hide the Volt from perfectionists, because then the initial car would be more of a success (maybe, but it would be at the expense of improving the car and potentially increasing their first-mover advantage). I also don't buy the idea that people buying the first electric vehicle will not be demanding, just because they're buying it from Chevy - and Chevy is not as well equipped to deal with them.

Giving a tech laden car to Buick? Once volumes get up there and the Chinese demand Volts, then give it to Buick, otherwise this is a recipe for failure. The simple act of calling this car a Buick will take it off most people's shopping lists. The tech-savvy bleeding-edge crowd won't be caught dead driving a Buick, while the typical Buick owner would worry that the high voltage electronics could short out his pacemaker, or try to put gas in the battery port...

 

There are currently no simple rebadges at Caddy, so there's no reason to assume that that's what they'll do with the Volt. It only make sense to have the newest and hottest technology at CAdillac, so there will obviously be an E-Flex motivated Caddy in the future. They should do the BLS and SRX with it for starters.

 

My take on this was not a "rebadged Volt", just using the E-Flex powertrain in a Cadillac for massive torque, quiet powerful driving AND the world's first extended range electric luxury car.

 

Cadillac might make something along the lines of the Tesla Roadster with the E-Flex platform, but don't think that it will be cheap. The roadster is already close to $90,000 (although GM has the advantage of scale).

However, I think you=--like many enviros--are highly deluded about many of your ideas; including the notion that an electric car is some sort of "performance" equal to gas. No way. Any "high torque" would be short-lived with the state of technology today.

 

The simple act of calling this car a Buick will take it off most people's shopping lists. The tech-savvy bleeding-edge crowd won't be caught dead driving a Buick, while the typical Buick owner would worry that the high voltage electronics could short out his pacemaker, or try to put gas in the battery port...

Right, that's why they're having a problem keeping Enclaves in stock, all the blind and senile old people that think it's Hudson.

Who is assuming that the only people interested in saving gas and not having to negotiate the fuel pumps are the tech savvy narcissists? The technology needs to be spread around, and packaged for each brand. I'm not saying rip off the chevy emblem and slap it on a Buick, but if they add E-flex to a vehicle with a soft ride and the comfort that Buick represents, then why wouldn't a Buick customer consider it?

My point is that the success of the Enclave tells us that the only thing limiting the potential rise of Buick is people inside GM that are afraid to market to people under the age of 70.

 

At NAIAS in Detroit this year GM showed a Caddy E-Flex (hydrogen) ... The Provoq concept. It's now going to be the next SRX. I'm guessing that this is the vehicle that GM is targeting for E-Flex. I have no problem with this and I think it's a fantastic idea. I do agree that the Volt should not be rebadged as a Caddy.

 

E-Flex in the Caddy is a great idea. It solves the problem of celebrities not wanting to be seen in a Chevy. They had no problems being seen in the SLade back in the day before the Global Warming Scare started.

 

9. Enviros are more likely to be rich than other people.

Does anyone ever notice that alot of the people with alternative life views are either rich or come from rich families?

I guess if you aren't spending every waking moment trying to stay afloat like the rest of us, then you sit around looking for things to do.

Idle hands are the devils playground.

 

Yes.

 

E-Flex in the Caddy is a great idea. It solves the problem of celebrities not wanting to be seen in a Chevy. They had no problems being seen in the SLade back in the day before the Global Warming Scare started.

Yeah, but will they want to drive a Station Wagon?? Even if it is a Cadillac?

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again.... here comes the Pontiac Amp, Buick Fuse, Cadilac Circuit, Saturn ....... I think you get the idea!!!

 

GM already shares powertrains everywhere, so I don't know what you guys were expecting.

It will be interesting to see if they can gin up a more 'high performance' version of E-Flex -- that could have a lot of potential applications at GM.

 

Okay, rebadgi-phobes, here's what a rebadge looks like:

Chevy Celebrity

Pontiac 6000

Chevy Chevette

Pontiac T1000 / Acadian

See? They are the same car, just a different badge, hence 'rebadge'. Okay, you still with me? Alright, these cars share a common platform:

Saturn Aura

Pontiac G6

Chevy Malibu

Saab 93

They share no exterior body panels, no glass...nothing but a common electrical architecture, floorpan, suspension, and some drivetrain. They are NOT REBADGES. Do we understand that now? Didn't think so.

The Sky and Solstice are not rebadges. They share a windshield and no exterior or interior body panels. The Lucerne and DTS share nothing but a drivetrain and floopan; no exterior panels, interior parts or glass. I cannot understand why it is so hard for people to 'get' what a rebadge is. Is not the Acura CSX a Honda Civic? Is not the Camry a Lexus ES? The Porsche Cayenne is a VW Touareg, the VW Routan is a Chrylser T/C. Get a frakin' grip.

 

Okay, rebadgi-phobes, here's what a rebadge looks like:

Chevy Celebrity

Pontiac 6000

According to GM insiders those aren't re-badges because:
1) Lutz says they don't do this... Never have
2) Look different fenders, different corner lights, Shoot one even has Mag wheels... Different ride, different suspension...

This

looks nothing like
this

See one is white and one is yellow... One has black mirrors one have body colored mirrors...
One has tall trees in the back ground and one is parked in front of a hedge. There are a million differences between those cars.

 

GM will slap a wreath and crest on an unchanged volt as a quick "place holder" with empty promises of a more differentiated and fully cooked model for the 2nd generation. you know the same excuse they used over and over. GM is reaching back into its bag of tricks from the 80s with all of the new models for 2010-11 why not on the volt too.

 

...the comments calling for a Buick Electra rebadge is a clever idea. still should stay as chevy exclusive IMO. stop giving every model to every division.

 

I don't want to respond, too many words this time of night. I'll just agree to disagree.

 

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