[mikmak]

Re: Review: Holden Rodeo vs Toyota's, Ford's, Mitsubishi's, Nissan's & Mazda's Ute's

Toyota have even spread their range to include a land cruiser station wagon with a real front axle, to ensure they dont loose customers who like to do it tough.

 

[vt6banger]

Re: Review: Holden Rodeo vs Toyota's, Ford's, Mitsubishi's, Nissan's & Mazda's Ute's

toyota will need to lift their game though, since they offer no airbags in the landcruiser traytop. Bhpbilliton [at least on the site im on, and i presume all will follow according to safety rules] rules stipulate that all vehicles must have at least drivers airbag, welcome nissan Patrol. we are repalcing our entire fleet of landcruisers to patrols to suit these rules

 

[Patto1]

Re: Review: Holden Rodeo vs Toyota's, Ford's, Mitsubishi's, Nissan's & Mazda's Ute's

Yes they do as there is NO Demand for them. Patto has posted before about the same companies doing conversion work for people wanting a 5th wheel conversion, a smallish niche market.
Unlike the US we do have a substantial Cabover market, that caters for everything from light to Heavy Trucks.

They are not only popular with the fifth wheeler market, but people who tow heavy loads like large boats, horse floats, etc. heavy industry like 'em too.

Check the "recently delivered" on each website, notice alot of families buying them as well...............!

There is a market for them and given the chance, Holden and Ford could make it a bigger than "niche" market.


P.S. Ford are currently pushing to get the 2008 F-series trucks down under. The only reason they stopped selling them this year, is they didn't meeting our tougher emissions laws that came into effect, otherwise they'd still be selling them, at I recall, a rate of around 200 sales a month.
Pretty good business I'd say when they are between $60,000 and $80,000 grand, good profit margins on trucks.

 

[Robert Ryan]

Re: Review: Holden Rodeo vs Toyota's, Ford's, Mitsubishi's, Nissan's & Mazda's Ute's

They are not only popular with the fifth wheeler market, but people who tow heavy loads like large boats, horse floats, etc. heavy industry like 'em too.

Check the "recently delivered" on each website, notice alot of families buying them as well...............!

In comparison to general Cabover Trucks sold in Australia it is a tiny market, with little hope of expansion, as prices of fuel increase. Even in the US the market for Pickups is softening. You would sell a lot more Renault Meganes than US Large Pickups here.We have had this arguement before on this and other forums. Ford , GM and Chrysler do not think it is worth their while to import these Pickups, when we already have a range of vehicles that are so much more effective and cost less.

is they didn't meeting our tougher emissions laws that came into effect, otherwise they'd still be selling them, at I recall, a rate of around 200 sales a month.

I talked to a Ford Technician aboot them, he said they were very slow selling them before the stoppage, but as soon as they did stop, they sold out all their available stock rapidly.

 

[Patto1]

Re: Review: Holden Rodeo vs Toyota's, Ford's, Mitsubishi's, Nissan's & Mazda's Ute's

I talked to a Ford Technician aboot them, he said they were very slow selling them before the stoppage, but as soon as they did stop, they sold out all their available stock rapidly.

Well that would be because those that wanted one, didn't want to miss out.

Don't forget they are only the F250's and F350's which Ford sell, add in the cheaper F150's and I think they would triple their sales overnight.

Tom Gorman said recently in the media that he wants the 2008 F-series as the country dealers love them, they have a ready market and loyal customer base who want them.
They mightn't be as popular in the cities, but the rural and country buyers love them.

Add in all the private importers around the country and I think Australia has a ready market for them.

The profits on trucks are huge too, so the business case for them is a no-brainer.

Now if Holden sold the Silverado, we would have a bit of healthy competition for Ford and this alone would increase interest for these types of vehicles and sales would grow naturely from this.

We have 3 mid-size trucks in Australia (Hi-lux, Navara and Rodeo) selling in the top 12 vehicles in Australia now.
The Hi-lux was the second biggest selling vehicle in Australia last month alone after the Commodore !

The new Hi-lux has grown in size considerably and has a bigger 4litre V6 motor too.

Who says we Aussies don't want big and bigger trucks with big and bigger motors ?

I think sales speak for themselves, bigger more comfortable Trucks are what Aussies want now :yup:

 

[Robert Ryan]

Re: Review: Holden Rodeo vs Toyota's, Ford's, Mitsubishi's, Nissan's & Mazda's Ute's

Well that would be because those that wanted one, didn't want to miss out.

Don't forget they are only the F250's and F350's which Ford sell, add in the cheaper F150's and I think they would triple their sales overnight.

Tom Gorman said recently in the media that he wants the 2008 F-series as the country dealers love them, they have a ready market and loyal customer base who want them.
They mightn't be as popular in the cities, but the rural and country buyers love them.

Well as I said before the sales were "glacial" before they stopped importing them. The Market is Tiny, the dealers do not love them . They are definitely are not popular in the Cities that is for sure.They are a failed experiment for Ford.

The profits on trucks are huge too, so the business case for them is a no-brainer

Sure is ,do not import them

Now if Holden sold the Silverado, we would have a bit of healthy competition for Ford and this alone would increase interest for these types of vehicles and sales would grow naturely from this.

They are not that stupid, they would never import them.

We have 3 mid-size trucks in Australia (Hi-lux, Navara and Rodeo) selling in the top 12 vehicles in Australia now

They are not Trucks they are Pickups

Who says we Aussies don't want big and bigger trucks with big and bigger motors ?

You have posted the same nonsenical arguement on two different forums. I wonder if you have friends doing 5th wheel conversions on those sites you have posted.Yes at fuel prices of $1.40 a Litre they want to rush out and buy a bigger version.

I think sales speak for themselves, bigger more comfortable Trucks are what Aussies want now :yup:

Seeing they are NOT selling the Silverado or the Ford, that is hard to justify.

Tom Gorman said recently in the media that he wants the 2008 F-series as the country dealers love them

Where did he say this? What is the quote?

 

[Patto1]

Re: Review: Holden Rodeo vs Toyota's, Ford's, Mitsubishi's, Nissan's & Mazda's Ute's

Road Test: Toyota Hilux

FAST FACT:
The Hilux is the first product from Toyota's Innovative International Multi-purpose Vehicle plan and will be followed by a people mover and 4WD.

Other Big Wheels

• King of the road
• Kenworth K104B cabin comfort
• Giga's heavy demand
• Super-safe Caltex trucks

20 May 2005

Showroom success today often comes down to the buyer being able to do two jobs with one vehicle.
So we have coupes that are convertibles, all-wheel-drives that are people movers, and sedans that are sports cars.
It's the same in the commercial vehicle world, where a growing number of people want a workhorse for the week and a toy for weekends.
It's this combination that's made the SS Commodore and XR Falcon utes so popular with tradesmen and extreme sports fanatics.
But things have gone further and Holden has a hit on its hands with the Crewman, a classy cross between a ute and a four-door Commodore sedan.
It's not a new idea. Many Japanese companies produce one-tonne workhorses with double-cab bodies, but the Holden is forcing its rivals to become better at both jobs.
So along comes the latest Toyota Hilux.
There are 30 models in the line-up, priced from $20,990.
But Toyota is not going to settle for sales at the bargain end of the action. It wants to sell something to everyone as well as create a new image for its working-class hero.

It is obvious in the advertising and it's just as obvious in the bolder body.
But there is even more to the story because the Hilux has been born from a new Toyota project called the Innovative International Multi-Purpose Vehicle.
The idea is to create three vehicles, including a people mover, from the same basic mechanical package, saving money and allowing them all to be built at the one factory in Thailand.
It is a big deal for Toyota and it should – should – mean a better deal on the vehicles in showrooms, as well as access to the people mover and four-wheel drive to come.
It's easy to go on and on about the Hilux because there is so much to talk about: so many models, so many engines and so many body choices, with either rear or four-wheel drive.
But the basics are petrol and diesel motors up to 4.0 litres; single, extended and double-cab bodies; Work Mate, SR and SR5 equipment levels; and prices all the way up to $51,850.
But the hero is easy to choose. It is the Hilux SR5, which is the closest in style and function to an SS or XR ute. There are nine SR5 models.
It is being pushed because Toyota Australia's research shows about 35 per cent of Aussie utes never go to work, and only 20 per cent of Hilux owners take their utes playing. So that's a big area for potential growth.
"Sports utilities have become a status symbol and in some instances they're the new sports cars," Toyota Australia sales and marketing head Dave Buttner says.
"More people are choosing to buy pick-ups as their daily and sports transport."
It is a repeat of the pattern in the United States and it shows why the new Hilux is a full size larger than the previous model. It has more power, a more refined suspension and more equipment, including twin airbags.
ON THE ROAD
The biggest question that needs answering in a Hilux test has nothing to do with the vehicle.
It's all about picking which version of the vehicle. There are too many choices.
This time around, since the Hilux would be driven mostly during the V8 Supercar weekend in Perth, we decided to tick all the boxes. We also wanted to know how the Toyota hero would shape up against Holden's Crewman, even if you cannot get a Hilux with a V8.
So we settled on an SR5 double cab with an automatic gearbox and four-wheel drive, and it was delivered in basic black. Just the sort of thing a successful painter might have for their work-and-play motoring.
The bottom line came in at $49,850, close to the Crewman Cross6 at $44,490, but a significant step up from rivals including the Nissan Navara, Mitsubishi Triton and even Holden's Rodeo.
Part of that is down to the price premium Toyota can always put on the class leader – it has been ahead in sales and driving for generations – and part is down to the size and equipment upgrade on the latest model.
The styling and equipment made the biggest impact when we collected the Hilux. Oh, and the 200kg of sandbags the Toyota people had put in the tray to settle the ride and handling.
The Hilux looks a lot bigger and tougher and that will give it an important weapon to combat the Rodeo, which got a similar upgrade last year. We had previously rated the Rodeo V6 as our work star, though the Commodore utes and Crewman are good for play.
The Toyota cabin is much more car-like than before, but the size surprised. It looks and feels much more like a four-door sedan than a basic ute stretch. We enjoyed lounging in the back seat.
The downside is that the ute tray is more like a Crewman than a giant workbed, though Toyota says it will hold a motorcycle and do the job for weekday work.
The Hilux SR5 rides surprisingly well – wonder how it would have been without the sand? – and handling is fine. It soaked up bumps and did well on gravel roads, though we didn't have the chance for any serious four-wheel driving.
Based on previous models, the Hilux should be fine in the bush.
But the city SR6 has a perky V6 engine and even comes with a manual-style auto change and cruise control. It is not as sporty as the Crewman, but has far more space and feels tougher.
It will be a winner for Toyota and a winner with a lot of new owners – once they find their way out of the model maze.
THE BOTTOM LINE
It looks like a tougher truck, but the new Hilux drives more like a car. Lined up against the Rodeo and the rest, the new Hilux has reset the benchmark, right down to a turning circle that doesn't feel like a truck. Herald-Sun

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Robert Ryan - read this story above from 2 years ago in the Herald Sun and then explain to me how the Hi-lux has also become the second biggest selling vehicle in Australia ?

Note the comments made by Dave Buttner from Toyota sales and marketing !!!!


P.S. They are pick-up "trucks" as they based on a truck chassis, unlike "utes" which are car based.

American pick-up Trucks are the next step up for alot of pick-up truck buyers and reason why the importers of these trucks in Australia are growing and the demand for full-size trucks are too.

You haven't backed up your claims with facts that there is no market for these trucks, but I have given you facts that there is a market for them.

Toyota agree Australia is following America's trend for them and Tom Gorman from Ford said he wants the 2008 F-series as well.

How much more proof do you need ?

Maybe you should get out a little and see a bit of Australia and see that there is a need for them.

Those of us who want a truck should not be denied our freedom of choice because a few like you don't want them, there are plenty of us guys out here that do !!!! :

 

[paul8488]

Re: Review: Holden Rodeo vs Toyota's, Ford's, Mitsubishi's, Nissan's & Mazda's Ute's

Is the Holden Rodeo related to the Colorado? If not, it should be. They've started, but GM really needs to take advantage of its size. One plant should be used to build midsize pickuptrucks. There would surely be huge savings in doing so. I know for sure they sell midsize trucks in North and South America and Australia... possibly in the far East too. Nissan is doing quite well with its Navara in Europe, as is Toyota with whatever they call their pickup here... if there's a market GM should be in it... so bring a Colorado to Europe as a Chevrolet alternative to the Japanese trucks. There's no reason there couldn't be another Colorado if it shared a plant with other trucks sold all over the world.

 

[BBDOS CV8]

Re: Review: Holden Rodeo vs Toyota's, Ford's, Mitsubishi's, Nissan's & Mazda's Ute's

The Rodeo and Colorado are the same substructure but the Rodeo is built in Thailand in an old Isuzu plant (which Holden apparently has the pink skip to). They come with a 3.2 litre version of the HFV6 made in Australia and also fitted to the Captiva.

As for large trucks - there is a small niche for them from what I've seen. Te private import companies converting them seem to be able to fill demand. Holden dealers don't normally deal in large commercial vehicles so it's hard to see them running with fullsize pickups. Big petrol engines, even on LPG just chew too much fuel. We drove with a lightly loaded F250 (?) crewcab thing to Perth one year. He spent more money on LPG than we did on petrol in a 2.4 Hi Ace van with virtually the same load.

 

[Robert Ryan]

Re: Review: Holden Rodeo vs Toyota's, Ford's, Mitsubishi's, Nissan's & Mazda's Ute's

How much more proof do you need ?

Maybe you should get out a little and see a bit of Australia and see that there is a need for them.

Those of us who want a truck should not be denied our freedom of choice because a few like you don't want them, there are plenty of us guys out here that do !!!! :

American pick-up Trucks are the next step up for alot of pick-up truck buyers and reason why the importers of these trucks in Australia are growing and the demand for full-size trucks are too.

I think BBDO's answer is spot on:

As for large trucks - there is a small niche for them from what I've seen. Te private import companies converting them seem to be able to fill demand. Holden dealers don't normally deal in large commercial vehicles so it's hard to see them running with fullsize pickups. Big petrol engines, even on LPG just chew too much fuel. We drove with a lightly loaded F250 (?) crewcab thing to Perth one year. He spent more money on LPG than we did on petrol in a 2.4 Hi Ace van with virtually the same load

That niche will get smaller as the price of fuel rises. As far as the small Japanese Pickups, NOT trucks, they are very durable and 4 X4, but are rarely used as a Tradesmans vehicle, more an economical Sports Trucks. I expect Ford's Falcon in its Orion guise to prosper, especially with a disel option..
By the way the "Big Wheels" are proper Trucks not Pickups.

 

[Patto1]

Re: Review: Holden Rodeo vs Toyota's, Ford's, Mitsubishi's, Nissan's & Mazda's Ute's

American trucks are not popular in Australia.............RIGHT

These photos were taken at just one of the importers in Victoria.

Do you think they would have gone to all this trouble and spent the huge bucks bringing them to Australia, if they was no demand ?

 

[Robert Ryan]

Re: Review: Holden Rodeo vs Toyota's, Ford's, Mitsubishi's, Nissan's & Mazda's Ute's

Eight 5th wheel rigs? What are you trying to prove? That the average housewife wants to drive a F350 7.3 Litre Diesel to the shops instead of a Honda CRV?. Get real , that proves nothing, we already said that there is a tiny market for US Pickups as 5th wheels in Australia.

 

[fenderbender]

Re: Review: Holden Rodeo vs Toyota's, Ford's, Mitsubishi's, Nissan's & Mazda's Ute's

Make the Rondeo the Colorado!!!

 

[AndrewGS]

Re: Review: Holden Rodeo vs Toyota's, Ford's, Mitsubishi's, Nissan's & Mazda's Ute's

Make the Rondeo the Colorado!!!

The Colorado is the Rodeo but with North American engines, a slightly different bed and four doors on the Extended Cab. The Colorado sold in Thailand is basically exactly like the Rodeo but with the Colorado front-end. All of these trucks were developed by Isuzu and are built in Thailand, but the North American market Colorado, Canyon and i-Series are Americanized and built in Louisiana.

 

[Patto1]

Re: Review: Holden Rodeo vs Toyota's, Ford's, Mitsubishi's, Nissan's & Mazda's Ute's

This is the Holden Rodeo, basically the same truck as the Chevy Colorado

 

[Robert Ryan]

Re: Review: Holden Rodeo vs Toyota's, Ford's, Mitsubishi's, Nissan's & Mazda's Ute's

This is the Holden Rodeo, basically the same truck as the Chevy Colorado

They are all Izuzu, no matter what local name is given to them.3 Litre Diesels and 3.5 litre petrol engines are the main options. They are a more a "lifestyle vehicle" in Australia(they do not get dirty), like the Holden Ute, rather than a workhorse like the Ford Falcon.

 

[Elk]

Re: Review: Holden Rodeo vs Toyota's, Ford's, Mitsubishi's, Nissan's & Mazda's Ute's

Top Australian Vehicles April 2007

Vehicle - Month
1. Holden Commodore - 4,724
2. Toyota Hilux Ute - 2,999
3. Mazda 3 - 2,438
4. Toyota Yaris - 2,325
5. Ford Falcon - 2,255
6. Toyota Corolla - 2,202
7. Toyota Camry - 1,905
8. Toyota Aurion - 1,715
9. Hyundai Getz - 1,640
10. Holden Rodeo Ute - 1,470
11. Nissan Navara Ute - 1,443
12. Ford Focus - 1,381
13. Holden Astra - 1,198
14. Honda Civic - 1,180
15. Honda Jazz - 1,157
16. Ford Falcon Ute - 1,145
17. Ford Territory - 1,104
18. Mitsubishi Lancer - 1,097
19. Toyota Prado - 1,075
20. Toyota Rav4 - 1,043

The Rodeo is getting it’s ass kicked by the Hilux. Colorado and Canyon sales are bad in the U.S. compared to the Tacoma, but at least they are not being out sold by more then 2:1.

Is the Holden Rodeo related to the Colorado? If not, it should be. They've started, but GM really needs to take advantage of its size. One plant should be used to build midsize pickuptrucks. There would surely be huge savings in doing so. I know for sure they sell midsize trucks in North and South America and Australia... possibly in the far East too. Nissan is doing quite well with its Navara in Europe, as is Toyota with whatever they call their pickup here... if there's a market GM should be in it... so bring a Colorado to Europe as a Chevrolet alternative to the Japanese trucks. There's no reason there couldn't be another Colorado if it shared a plant with other trucks sold all over the world.

They’re the same. Only differences are the styling and the engines. In addition to the diesel the Rodeo has a 123 hp version of the 2.4L Ecotec and a 210 hp version of the 3.6L. While the Colorado and Canyon have 185 hp 2.9L I4 and 242 hp 3.7L versions of the I6 from the Trailblazer.
http://www.gm.com/company/gmability/adv_tech/100_news/vortec_062006.html

 

[BBDOS CV8]

Re: Review: Holden Rodeo vs Toyota's, Ford's, Mitsubishi's, Nissan's & Mazda's Ute's

Rodeo is not 'getting its' ass kicked' so much but rather coming back from a long bout on the bench. With petrol engines only it was selling about 5-600 a month.

The new Holden Rodeo with the retuned-for-grunt HFV6 has only been on sale for maybe 18 months; and the new 3.0L diesel (which is vital in this segment) only arrived about 2 months ago. Prior to that it could not seriously compete with the Navarra, Hilux and other V6 petrol/diesel light commercials. Back then it was selling, but maybe a quarter of what it is now.

Now it has two motors with competitive power/torque along with a fair actual price advantage - especially for the diesel.

Lifestyle vehicle only? Really? Well then the bricklayer who did work for me recently and arrived with a Rodeo 4+2 tray loaded to the gunwhales with bricks, sand and cement is seriouly mislead, as is the vinyard we stayed at who ships their barrels, pallets and raw grapes with one. They both seemed fairly happy with them, too.

As with its' small cars, Holden will not compete with Toyota for sheer sales with the Rodeo, but being second-best in that segment is a pretty fair business - about $US40m of retail sales. Coupled with VE Ute sales when that arrives that'll be some pretty handy light commercial sales. Toyota will cut prices to the bone to get sales as they have recently with their 'same price as business pays sale', and some people associate 'Hilux' or 'Landcruiser' with white, solid-axle light commercial because they've been here thrity years. It's hard to break that. But Holden has made inroads. Toyota has the product but it also markets aggressively. Holden is making inroads there, too.

The Commodore Ute is used by tradies, but is more popular with private or semi-business use because pickups suit dirtbikes, jetskis and the Aussie outdoor lifestyle in general but also because a V8 SS Ute is about $40K compared to $50K for a SS sedan. Plus they look damn good lowered on trick wheels, at least to Aussies, and actually ride and handle similar to a sedan when unloaded, and are even a little lighter so can be as quick. A trick ute around town has street cred like a coupe does - and amounts to much the same thing.

 

[Robert Ryan]

Re: Review: Holden Rodeo vs Toyota's, Ford's, Mitsubishi's, Nissan's & Mazda's Ute's

Lifestyle vehicle only? Really?

In relation to the Falcon Ute , they are. Yes some are used by Tradies, but still like the Holden Ute more a "Lifestyle Vehicle". The Holden Ute dropped out of the real tradies market when it droppef the 1 Tonner.

Plus they look damn good lowered on trick wheels, at least to Aussies, and actually ride and handle similar to a sedan when unloaded, and are even a little lighter so can be as quick. A trick ute around town has street cred like a coupe does - and amounts to much the same thing.

As I said a "Lifestyle vehicle"

 

[Patto1]

Re: Review: Holden Rodeo vs Toyota's, Ford's, Mitsubishi's, Nissan's & Mazda's Ute's

Where did he (Tom Gorman) say this? What is the quote?

As quoted (again) by Tom Gorman:-

http://www.carpoint.com.au/car-review/2594042.aspx

>> F-series a truck too far
"The F-series is really critical to our rural dealers and was a great brand for us, but we just couldn't get the economics to work on this cycle with the US. We haven't given up on it but we are not going to have anything in the near-term]," Gorman told The Carsales Network at this week's monthly dissection of Ford's sales figures.
"Our [Ford Australia's] challenge is as the only right-hand drive market [for F-series], even if you doubled our [previous] volume to 400 a month, the investment is a tough equation."
Gorman said be believed there was room in this market for full-sized pick-ups like F-series but that it would be tough for any current marque. He said he thought it unlikely that any of the existing large pick-up manufacturers -- Chrysler Group, Toyota, Nissan and GM --would be able to make the volumes work
Meanwhile, CNC has heard of rural and industrial operators desperately in need of additional F-series examples leaving their contact details at Ford dealer service departments offering a premium to any current F-series owner wanting to sell"

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No demand eh?

It's not only popular with the 5th wheel industry, but rural and industrial as well, not to mention the upper life-style market who want full-size pick-ups trucks in Australia.