The Prius is a mid-size car though. Most people don't realize this.

You have to compare apples to apples.

 

The Prius is a mid-size car though. Most people don't realize this.

I haven't sat in one, but they don't look like a midsize. Edmunds considers it a compact car.

 

The Prius is a mid-size car though. Most people don't realize this.

You have to compare apples to apples.

Most people don't care....

 

Yeah, most people aren't really into the Prius all that much. Most people would rather get a -normal- car with a hybrid powertrain, like an Accord Hybrid, Civic Hybrid, etc. than buy a car like the Prius.

Then, after that Southpark episode that called in the "Pious" alot of people have waken up and realized that they don't want to look like those smug people that drive hybrids. Basically, it's not the cool thing to do anymore...

 

i guess i'm one of those smug people then.

although i don't see it as much different from the smugness of large suv owners. "i'll run right over you" they way they change lanes and expect you to yeild to them since their bigger. smugness if i've ever seen it.

the prius is indeed a midsize. the epa classifies cars, not edmunds. also consumer reports has also mentioned that the prius does indeed save you money. $21k with a $3000 tax credit among other incentives is an amazing deal and hard to pass up for a car that gets at least 45mpg.

while polluting a helluva lot less of course.

 

$21k with a $3000 tax credit among other incentives is an amazing deal and hard to pass up for a car that gets at least 45mpg.

while polluting a helluva lot less of course.

How about $14K for 36 mpg, as of my last tank, in GM vehicle proudly made in Spring Hill Tennessee? At $3.00/gallon, 10K miles a year, that's $833. At 45 mpg for the Prius, that turns out to be $666 per year.

Go ahead, do the symbology yourself.
I think the signs are quite obvious.
I'll be driving a GM vehicle and not a Prius, thank you very much.

 

I haven't sat in one, but they don't look like a midsize. Edmunds considers it a compact car.

Then the Malibu and Fusion would be a compact as well

 

Yeah, most people aren't really into the Prius all that much. Most people would rather get a -normal- car with a hybrid powertrain, like an Accord Hybrid, Civic Hybrid, etc. than buy a car like the Prius.

Then, after that Southpark episode that called in the "Pious" alot of people have waken up and realized that they don't want to look like those smug people that drive hybrids. Basically, it's not the cool thing to do anymore...

The Accord Hybrid missed its mark as a performance with little mpg benefit which shows very low sales, the Prius is the sales leader showing people want the Prius over the other models

 

The Accord Hybrid missed its mark as a performance with little mpg benefit which shows very low sales, the Prius is the sales leader showing people want the Prius over the other models

Yup. I have no idea why Honda did this.

Toyota went the economy hybrid route with the new Camry, and I'm willing to bet they'll sell a lot better than the now discontinued (I believe?) Accord Hybrid.

Not only does it get better mileage than it's 4cyl counterpart, it performs much better too. It's not slow by any measure; I think Road and Track posted something like a 7sec 0-60 time for it a month or two ago.

You can't market performance hybrids to a market that's barely embraced them as economical. It just doesn't make any sense.

 

Coo! So it sounds like some people are finally realizing that the Prius won't save you money...unfortunately.

 

Coo! So it sounds like some people are finally realizing that the Prius won't save you money...unfortunately.

as much as you'd hate to admit it...or even cared for that matter.
the Prius and Civic Hybrid are the two hybrids that will save you money in gas savings alone.

add to that, that you'd be polluting less for future generations and you might just feel good about it.

some call it smug....so be it.

 

Let's do the analysis. A Focus has PZEV, as the Prius do.

Focus ST MSRP: 17,040
Prius MSRP: 21,725

That's a difference of $4685 bucks (excluding incentives and dealer's mark-up). The Prius has to justify that money so it can be a good investment.

Now, supposing you drive 10K miles per year.

Focus ST MPG: 27.5
That's 363.63 gallons per year, or $1093.98 dollars.

Prius MPG: 55.5
That ¡s 180.18 gallons per year, or $540.54

There's a $553.35 difference. Now let's divide the diffence of MSRP and the difference of gas $, and we get.... 8.47 years to get back the investment!!!

Sweet Prius!!

 

Yeah, most people aren't really into the Prius all that much. Most people would rather get a -normal- car with a hybrid powertrain, like an Accord Hybrid, Civic Hybrid, etc. than buy a car like the Prius.

On the contrary - as was mentioned here, Accord Hybrid bombed, while Prius sales are skyrocketing. People who just want inexpensive driving thanks to lower fuel consumption just do their homework and get a small car. Those who want to make a "fashion statement" and have enough money to do so just buy a Prius.

 

I just read that Toyota is going to restyle the Hybrid Camry and Hybrid Highlander to make them look more hybrid like, in other words instantly recognizable as different from the norm. They claim that people buying the Hybrids are making it more for the statement, than for actualy gas savings.
And that's why the Prius is selling well. Funky looks.

 

Well I mentioned earlier that if possible today I will drive a Camry Hybrid from the dealership. I already have a new Camry so they know I am not buying one...but it pays to give out chocolate truffles...they like me there. So I am real curious to how this hybrid 4 cyclinder compares to my Camry LE 4 cylinder in power and effeciency. I am getting around 32mpg highway right now and that is before the first oil change which I know will only go up after that.

I will try to remember to bring my camera too. I do remember the sticker on the Camry Hybrid was like around 27K. It is "loaded"...just not "Fully Loaded". So I will take a pic of the sticker. A Fully Loaded Camry XLE/Camry SE is around 31K. The only drawback I can see upfront is the cargo space is less. Makes sense since the batteries will take up some of that.

Also to get the full 3K tax write break you need to buy a hybrid with in the 1st quarter of the year. After every quarter you lose well a "quarter" of the tax break. So I expect allot of hybrid sales next year. It was very hard to get a Camry/Highlander SUV hybrid by the 1st quarter of this year.

It will be great when GM, Ford, Chrysler comes out with their version of a hybrid too. Hopefully they will go the route of Toyota's version. Toyota's from my understanding is more of a Green Vehicle then Honda's. Meaning it doesn't draw on plug and go to charge the batteries...it does it it's self through it's synergy system.

Until they fully develope the Fuel Cells this is the wave of the future.

 

Let's do the analysis. A Focus has PZEV, as the Prius do.

Focus ST MSRP: 17,040
Prius MSRP: 21,725

That's a difference of $4685 bucks (excluding incentives and dealer's mark-up). The Prius has to justify that money so it can be a good investment.

Now, supposing you drive 10K miles per year.

Focus ST MPG: 27.5
That's 363.63 gallons per year, or $1093.98 dollars.

Prius MPG: 55.5
That ¡s 180.18 gallons per year, or $540.54

There's a $553.35 difference. Now let's divide the diffence of MSRP and the difference of gas $, and we get.... 8.47 years to get back the investment!!!

Sweet Prius!!

you forgot that prius has a $3150 tax CREDIT!
$4685
- $3150
= $1535

Now redo the math genius

 

Also to get the full 3K tax write break you need to buy a hybrid with in the 1st quarter of the year. After every quarter you lose well a "quarter" of the tax break. So I expect allot of hybrid sales next year. It was very hard to get a Camry/Highlander SUV hybrid by the 1st quarter of this year.

That's close but not exactly right. From the fueleconomy.gov website http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/tax_hybrid_new.shtml

The credit will be phased out for vehicles offered by a given manufacturer once that company has sold a total of 60,000 eligible hybrid and lean-burn vehicles starting from the beginning of 2006. Manufacturers must report consumer sales to IRS, and IRS will announce when a manufacturer has exceeded this sales figure.

Beginning with the second calendar quarter after the calendar quarter in which the manufacturer sells 60,000 vehicles, the credit will be 50% of the full credit amount. This part of the phase-out will last for two calendar quarters.

For the next two calendar quarters, the credit will be 25% of the full credit amount. The incentives for vehicles by that manufacturer will end thereafter.

The credit has a limit. Once sales exceed 60k, the process to phase out the credit begins. According to Toyota they have sold over 30k Piouses as of April. http://www.toyota.com/about/news/corporate/2006/05/02-1-sales.html
If they continue at this rate, the credit phase-out process should begin this year, with the credit halving early 2007.

The only thing I am unclear on is if your taxes are less than the credit, will you get a check for the difference? Or does the credit only apply to taxes owed?

 

Then, after that Southpark episode that called in the "Pious" alot of people have waken up and realized that they don't want to look like those smug people that drive hybrids. Basically, it's not the cool thing to do anymore...

That 'South Park' episode was too spot on. I couldn't believe that they were actually saying and doing that stuff. My thoughts were pretty much in that cartoon.

The clincher for me was the people in San Francisco enjoying the smell of their own f*rts. That floored me.

I believe people who drive Japanese cars, in general, are 'smug'.

 

That 'South Park' episode was too spot on. I couldn't believe that they were actually saying and doing that stuff. My thoughts were pretty much in that cartoon.

The clincher for me was the people in San Francisco enjoying the smell of their own f*rts. That floored me.

I believe people who drive Japanese cars, in general, are 'smug'.

And as for smug, you're totally biased if you think that only hybrid drivers suffer from it (and incidentally fwiw, I have never met one single person in real life who drove a hybrid and acted smug about it...not one). You think SUV drivers aren't smug? C'mon, puh-leeze. Those 'tards that think somehow they own the road because they drive a big car??? In fact, the only smug I've ever heard from someone came from a friend who drives one of those super-SUV's--you know, the Avalanche, or Tsunami, or Armageddon or something like that. He told me he changes lanes whenever the hell he wants to because everyone around him is afraid of him.

THAT'S smug.

 

you forgot that prius has a $3150 tax CREDIT!
$4685
- $3150
= $1535

Now redo the math genius

Excluding incentives, since those fluctuate. He used a Focus for an example, and I KNOW the Focus comes with about $3000 ($3500 Canadian, probably less there) off of the purchase price, making it about a $4500 difference again.

 

Excluding incentives, since those fluctuate. He used a Focus for an example, and I KNOW the Focus comes with about $3000 ($3500 Canadian, probably less there) off of the purchase price, making it about a $4500 difference again.

That's correct, the difference would be even bigger if I add mark-ups of the Prius and incentives from the Focus.

 

it's still a focus. we need apples to apples here. what are we doing next? comparing prius price to aveo or corolla? please.

 

it's still a focus. we need apples to apples here. what are we doing next? comparing prius price to aveo or corolla? please.

umm......thats kinda the point oilissolastyear. The whole idea is that you can get a similar sized vehicle, maybe smaller, corrolla, aveo, civic etc that is cheaper than a Prius and will be cheaper since the Prius won't add up gas savings that much due to slow tax credit and the fact that it's 10,000 more than the base price of one of those cars. Even with 3,000 off and some fuel savings, it just can't add up to a cheaper car.

 

That 'South Park' episode was too spot on. I couldn't believe that they were actually saying and doing that stuff. My thoughts were pretty much in that cartoon.

The clincher for me was the people in San Francisco enjoying the smell of their own f*rts. That floored me.

I believe people who drive Japanese cars, in general, are 'smug'.

Nice stereotype

 

Anyone who truly wants to be environmentally friendly or wants to save as much money as possible doesn't buy a new car of any type, hybrid or not. They buy a clean burning, fuel efficent used non-hybrid car, or maybe not a car at all, but a scooter or motorcycle or bicycle instead.

Anyone buying a new hybrid or any new car has consumed vast energy and resources, and put greenhouse gases and pollution into the air, and helped fill landfill space. Every steel, aluminum, plastic, rubber, glass, etc. part on a car takes energy to manufacture. The steel comes from iron ore that is mined and shipped in dumptruck or semi to a steel mill. The circuit boards and integrated circuits use energy and water and generate toxic waste to make. Many if not most of the parts of a car are made elsewhere and trucked to the assembly plant. Then the car is shipped on a semi to your dealer. All those diesel burning engines put black soot into the air. Anyone who feels smug as they drive down the road in their hybrid needs a cold dose of reality so they can see the big energy-saving deficit they've put themselves into that they will most likely never recover from.

In terms of saving money, if you calculate the dollars saved per year in gas, it will take a number of years before you even break even over buying a non-hybrid car. That is unless you drive many tens of thousands of miles a year or gas increases to 3-4 times the current price.

And of course how many hybrid owners will keep their car for many years and resist the temptation to buy a new generation hybrid that gets even better mileage? I think a large percentage of them will make exactly the same mistake they made the first time and trade their hybrid in on a new one, and unnecessarily waste energy and money yet again.