I have a bad feeling about the sales numbers the CTS is going to put up. The higher prices are going to put off a lot of returning customers. That said, higher prices are absolutely necessary to play with the luxury big boys. This is going to be a transition period for Cadillac.

 

Question is, will the Valet attendents park it front row with the 5 Series or regard it as a $48,000 wannabe (as opposd to the $65,000 sticker) and banish it to the back lot? BIG issue for some. May want to leave that sticker on the window for awhile.

 

Its not $6000 more its about $9000 more. they got rid of the base cts sedan for 2013 to put more of a spread between it and the new ats.

 

Am I the only one who thinks it just doesn't look that great? I think reviews of the exterior have been almost universally positive, but to me the nose looks awkward and the profile looks dated. I'm totally prepared to believe it looks way better in personm, but am I the only one on this?

 

Am I the only one who thinks it just doesn't look that great? am I the only one on this?

Pretty much

 

Last month's sales of CTS were driven by incentives to clear down Sigma stock,
I wouldn't be expecting huge sales of Alpha CTS in the first few months.
Especially given the ATS experience...

At the moment, Alpha is a bespoke Cadillac platform , if it does not
deliver significant increases in either transaction prices or sales over
what a GM FWD/AWD platfrom could achieve - then what good is it...

Funny thing is that Holden's work to lighten Zeta arguably makes it
a better more economical proposition than a large Alpha,,,,

 

I think that initially buyers will balk at the pricing. Lack of sales in the luxury department, doesn't bother me one bit. Knowing that Cadillac has put out a vehicle worth every penny on the price tag it what matters. It's a modern Cadillac, it's designed very well, handles second to none and comes with a premium engine offering, the tech is first rate...If a consumer doesn't want to pay more a proper Cadillac, then Cady can honestly say, "It's your loss!"

 

As another forumer said, the Cadillac doesn’t beat the German offerings. Cadillac doesn’t command the same prestige as the other brands. There is no way someone of sound mind would buy a Cadillac over a BMW, Audi, or a Merc (after the hype dies down) for the same coin and for a similar performing car. Its too expensive for a Cadillac full stop.

Anyone balking at the new price structure probably isn't a true buyer for that segment anyways. Value based shoppers need not apply.

If Cadillac says "its your loss" then that would be the most idiotic thing they could do. That is not how you treat the premium market customers. And yes the premium market buyers do also care about price. They did not get to the position they are in by being loose with their money. They may spend money but for the most part they spend wisely, and a wise spender would always but the Bavarian offerings for similar money.

 

Anyone balking at the new price structure probably isn't a true buyer for that segment anyways. Value based shoppers need not apply.

 

So what everybody is saying here is that Cadillac has matched it German competitors in size, shape, performance, speed, and now price.

If I were a BMW, MB, or Audi customer...why should I buy a Cadillac instead???

To win, you need to beat your competitors, not match them...

ATS and CTS are very nice cars and they match very well against their competitors, but, if you're looking to win in this category, you need to differentiate yourself. Cadillac is only looking for admission to the club--it seems.

 

ATS and CTS match or maybe even surpass BMW's 3 and 5 series in almost every area except the critical one.

Here's the thing, they are not BMWs....that brand is almost like a fashion accessory to the people who can afford them.
They are cars to be seen in.....

 

^ BMW went too soft and heavy w/ the F10 5 Series; the 3G CTS is now the the king of hill when it comes to driving dynamics in the midsize segment.

The E Class was never a sports sedan (not counting the AMG, tho the refresh has improved it a bit) and the A6 is FWD based.

There really isn't much to differentiate in this segment (much less in the other luxury sedan segments) than opting to be on the sportier side or going the luxo-cruiser route, RWD vs. FWD and sheetmetal/design.

 

Let us wait until the gloss wears off. GM has generally over promised and under delivered. Cadillac handling from all reports (from Europe anyway) has always been a let down compared to the Europeans.

 

I believe sales for the CTS will be strong. For those that have a problem for $46,025 for the base car, their problem and their loss.

 

It will be interesting to learn what the average transaction window sticker price of a 2014 CTS Sedan will be? Will the market demand the "loaded" V-Sport models with rear-wheel-drive and eight-speed transmissions, or 2.0Turbo All-Wheel-Drive models with the six-speed transmissions, and what level of options to bolster the prices of either? Although sales may likely decrease, the average transaction price will surely climb. Some buyers may view the 2014 CTS Sedan as too closely resembling the 2014 ATS Sedan--but the effects of this resemblance will diminish once the consumer sees how small an ATS Sedan back seat is.

The "good news" in the article that no one has mentioned is the acknowledgement that a CTS Coupe may likely be made--this is good news because the generation II CTS Coupes led the class!

 

I'm not 100 percent on its looks either. Maybe 70-80 percent.
GM has gone back to small diameter tires, while the Germans and Asian sourced cars are using much taller tires. I think the ats and cts look small compared to the others.

 

we have a 2009 cts premium,we are in the market but right now unless something dramatic happens we are leaning toward the xts over the new cts....why ...well cost my old cts premium stickered at 50,500....and it looks like to replace it will cost upwards to 58,000,right now I can get a new 2013 xts premium for about 51,000 equipped the way I would like it ...too much of a difference for the same engine and very similar amentities...yes I know rear whell vs front but the xts with magnetic drive and big wheels will fit the bill...so far but that could change when I see it ..but right now it looks like XTS ...

 

If Akerson has his way, and he probably will, the XTS will be dead by 2015. So, get one now.

 

There's no question this car is well-worth the price tag, but I will be SHOCKED if it isn't a sales struggle.

Cadillac no longer has a product problem (relatively speaking). They have a sales/marketing problem.

 

Well if you wanted to know, what the Europeans thought about the 2014 CTS, one of the reviewers at Top Gear Magazine UK, sounded like he like it a lot. Also, on the plus side he didn't have anything to say about the rear leg room. Check out the article here is the link. :

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/c...ive-2013-09-25

 

I have not looked closely at the new E-Class but the last generation was certainly nothing to brag about in terms of fit and finish and quality materials. A lawyer friend purchased one in 2004 and the black insert in the front lower fascia popped out and was swinging back and forth and kept doing this. The sets rattled around and squeeked.

 

So you're going to make a comment like this and compare a car that even Mercedes has admitted was sheer crap?
THe W211 was a joke, and it ruined Mercedes' image for quality and reliability.

The W212 is about as solid as a rock.

 

I keep wondering about the styling too. The front and side look great...the back bothers me. Maybe a bit too much to the Cadillacs of the past...the bad Cadillacs.

 

It still seems to me as though Cadillac effectively split the existing CTS market in two and doubled the cost
of vehicles servicing that market. Would it have been less costly for GM to have developed one Alpha,
a mid sized CTS similar to the outgoing Sigma CTS?

That way, the CTS would have continued as sedan and coupe in an established market segment/ size
while a lighter revamped Zeta based large sedan could have sat above it as a replacement for the XTS.

 

My 2 cents about the CTS.

First, I think the front is awesome. It's unique, and it stand out while looking great and making a statement. The rest of the exterior, though, doesn't measure up. In fact, I find the XTS to have more interesting sides and rear design. I do give CTS kudos on it's interior. But if you look at the car from any view that doesn't include the front or inside, the car looks pretty underwhelming.

To those who think that the price jump is going to put people off, you're way off base. People looking at price versus value buy Chevrolets, Fords, Toyotas, Mazdas, and the like. If you are price shopping $50,000 cars, then you probably are either buying your first luxury car, or you're buying outside of your class.... you should go back to a Chevy or Toyota that you can actually afford.

Fact is that once you get over the $40-45K mark, you are buying a NAME or a SPECIAL VEHICLE, not a price. At that level, if you're a Chrysler fan, you're buying an SRT because it's special. Ditto Shelbys and ZL1s. You're walking into a showroom specifically to buy a Corvette, or a Viper. You aren't going around comparing prices with a Porsche, Benz, or a McLauren... you KNOW what you want already.

So the question ISN'T a matter of price, the question becomes "Does this vehicle warrant the price???"...or..."Does this car measure up to whatever image I want to convey??" If the car has the image, the quality, and you're willing to pay for it, you don't give a rat's hoot as to what it costs. Disagree? See Cadillac Escalade, which goes for up to and over $70,000 and has no shortage of people willing to pay that amount because the styling and image have that amount of value.... even though it's nothing more than a $45K Tahoe or Suburban with a few pieces of interior wood and a fancier grill. Luxury is not about value. If that were the case, then Lincoln wouldn't have one foot in the grave.

And,that becomes the CTS' challenge. It's no doubt assembled tightly. It no doubt has great materials. It has all the right mechanical parts, and they all work together as well as anyone else in the luxury market. The final decxision on success or failure isn't focused on the price jump. It's focused on if enough people thing the car has "juice". Is it compelling? Is it very desirable? Am I goning to want one instead of a BMW 5 series or some other competitor? And even if I don't, are there enough others to make the car a success. Price ISN'T an issue... DESIRABILITY is..... and that's what the new CTS has to demonstrate to be successful.

The ATS is on the low end of the scale, and has the bigger problem. Although it's priced cheaper than a BMW 3 series, in monthly payments that difference is between $25 and $50 per month in car payments. That means even in that instance, the value equasion disappears, and it becomes nothing more than a desirability contest. BMW still has the name equity, and most will simply choose the Bimmer just because of the blue and white propeller logo on the leading edge of the center hood.... Cadillac's challenge is to make their logo more desirable, or at least more desirable than the BMW logo to enough potential buyers that Cadillac will make a dent, get some word of mouth going, and grow a few more converts till it reaches that point where the Cadillac crest means more in the minds of people than the Blue and white propeller.

 

Nobody is going to have an image problem driving a 2014 CTS, even in San Francisco, sorry mgescuro.

 

No more an image problem than driving a Jag anyway.

 

Cadillac walked away from its luxury large car heritage decades ago, and I believe that it will be Harder to regain its image than it would be to start a new luxury brand, which would be difficult indeed.
Omega needs to be over-the-top great and successful to help the smaller Cadillacs' image issues, and that will take several years at a minimum. Until then, Cadillac will struggle with getting 5/E prices or image for their smaller entries, and I think its a mistake to push them. Too high too fast, as that will result in slow. Sales. And a "failure" label they might not shake for a generation.

 

Omega needs to not be bland and has to be a dynamic design.
I don't believe Cadillac's full sized concepts do that.

Cadillac needs to prove to the market (and itself) that it can sell the CTS at $46-65,000 -- and ultimately up to $80,000.

If people don't buy at this level (and CTS is priced perfectly right there), then questions will be raised about the plausibility of Omega sales at the $75-115,000 range.

That's why Cadillac needed Omega first before ATS.

 

How are Cadillac's buyers gonna balk at the price when they are very often paying more than $46K for the CTS already. Furthermore quite a few SRX and ATS are selling in the $50K price range. The Escalade sells for well over that price.

As a Cadillac buyer who has paid much more than your supposed scare price for several Cadillacs over the last 8 years, I call you on your claim.

 

Isn't the new C class Mercedes growing in size to approximately be the same size as the previous generation CTS?

Wasn't it stated by a few here that the second gen CTS was the wrong size? Now the C class is imitating that.

The new CTS is so good it will gain market share beyond expectations by various members here especially since the German players are discounting heavily with their recently remodeled competitors...

Their lease rates are being subsidized so Cadillac has its work cut out for it since it just raised its prices..

Its not rocket science..

 

Isn't the new C class Mercedes growing in size to approximately be the same size as the previous generation CTS?
Wasn't it stated by a few here that the second gen CTS was the wrong size? Now the C class is imitating that.
The new CTS is so good it will gain market share beyond expectations by various members here especially since the German players are discounting heavily with their recently remodeled competitors...
Their lease rates are being subsidized so Cadillac has its work cut out for it since it just raised its prices..
Its not rocket science..

The CTS should have worked. As a larger class sport sedan, but all we heard was that it was the wrong size, when the real answer is that it wasn't a MB or BMW.
Re-sizing the CTS to the ATS and new CTS remedies the alleged. Size problem, but its still not a German car, so still "wrong."
If GM had asked. Me,I would have made the ATS larger, but slightly smaller than the old CTS. I would have made the new CTS with a 117" wheelbase and a 15 cubic for trunk, while naming it STS. And then the large size would be a 120"wheelbase el dorado and a 125" super sedan called XTS or Fleetwood. But they didn't ask me.......

 

I typically agree with points that MG makes but I'm not so sure anymore. Certainly we all realize that Cadillac has had a struggle in straddling the 3 Series priced car with 5 Series space as you can't make either group happy. So now we have the proper cars, the new ATS and the new CTS and I still feel like there is absolutely no love from MG at all. There are holes in the Cadillac lineup, yes. There have been misguided talks from GM and even more promises followed by letdowns. Yet, I still feel as if Cadillac will never be up to his standard. FYI... I agree about the pricing of the new CTS. It's going to take awhile for people to accept the new pricing strategy but there is no doubt the car is a class leading vehicle.

As far as Jaguar goes aren't they having a struggle in the US? From what I read sales of the XJ are down and there are many who aren't accepting of the new styling theme. XF is borderline boring these days. XK needed a refresh years ago. F-Type is excellent but why buy it over a Porsche? That's where the real racing story is anyways; not to mention they have been building real sports cars for years. Jag's interiors are OK but I still think Audi leads in interior design and materials.

 

I typically agree with points that MG makes but I'm not so sure anymore. Certainly we all realize that Cadillac has had a struggle in straddling the 3 Series priced car with 5 Series space as you can't make either group happy. So now we have the proper cars, the new ATS and the new CTS and I still feel like there is absolutely no love from MG at all. There are holes in the Cadillac lineup, yes. There have been misguided talks from GM and even more promises followed by letdowns. Yet, I still feel as if Cadillac will never be up to his standard. FYI... I agree about the pricing of the new CTS. It's going to take awhile for people to accept the new pricing strategy but there is no doubt the car is a class leading vehicle.

As far as Jaguar goes aren't they having a struggle in the US? From what I read sales of the XJ are down and there are many who aren't accepting of the new styling theme. XF is borderline boring these days. XK needed a refresh years ago. F-Type is excellent but why buy it over a Porsche? That's where the real racing story is anyways; not to mention they have been building real sports cars for years. Jag's interiors are OK but I still think Audi leads in interior design and materials.

Cadillac has been bracketing MG with the ATS and the new CTS leaving him less and less wiggle room as the so called "GMI Cadillac Curmudgeon". It will get even worse for his Cadillac critic career here at GMI with every new Cadillac model. He will eventually have to get with the program or just stand there in the corner Cadillac has painted him into.

 

You guys really think that GM excludes us from certain Cadillac events because of ONE POSTER?!

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

C'mon guys, grow up. He may not like the brand, but I never heard him say that the ATS and CTS weren't good, world class luxury sedans. All I've read is him saying Cadillac still doesn't quite have the "name" MB and BMW have (and he's right!!), and endless fawning for Jaguar. THAT needs to stop.

EDIT: And oh yeah, his calling of the ATS a circa 2006 design. That one gets me every time!

 

You guys really think that GM excludes us from certain Cadillac events because of ONE POSTER?!

:lmao::lmao::lmao::

C'mon guys, grow up. He may not like the brand, but I never heard him say that the ATS
and CTS weren't good, world class luxury sedans. All I've read is him saying Cadillac still doesn't quite have the "name" MB and BMW have (and he's right!!), and endless fawning for Jaguar. THAT needs to stop.

EDIT: And oh yeah, his calling of the ATS a circa 2006 design. That one gets me every time!

I have no idea if MG's antics have any influence on how GM sees GMI. I do know that he has no interest in purchasing a Cadillac and the better Cadillac gets the more out of reality his anti-Cadillac comments get. He is, by definition, a troll. A troll, I might add, who is coddled by by some here.

 

I wouldn't say he is a troll as he has made some excellent points about how GM should handle Cadillac moving forward. What I have noticed about him is how image is a huge part of his life it seems. It's all about name brands and letting people know he can afford and has it. What it comes down to I believe is if he did in fact purchase a Cadillac that those he surrounds himself with would be shocked and would possibly even "look down" on him because Cadillac isn't a "true" luxury brand in the sense whereas Mercedes is. This comes off in his posts which leads me to believe image is everything and Cadillac isn't an image brand in his mind and never will be (which to an extent I agree). What I did find very funny is how he commented on the bland side view of the CTS when I see nothing but E-Class there!

I'm not that self-involved so for me I don't really care about how people view me or what those outside my family and friends think about me. I drive a Cadillac because I enjoy the cars they build and the rich history associated with it and even the history that isn't so great. The fact that GM can make the CTS such a no excuses, full fledged competitor makes me think they are done with the excuses. Still work to be done but it seems like they are finally doing it right.

 

I wouldn't say he is a troll as he has made some excellent points about how GM should handle Cadillac moving forward. What I have noticed about him is how image is a huge part of his life it seems. It's all about name brands and letting people know he can afford and has it. What it comes down to I believe is if he did in fact purchase a Cadillac that those he surrounds himself with would be shocked and would possibly even "look down" on him because Cadillac isn't a "true" luxury brand in the sense whereas Mercedes is. This comes off in his posts which leads me to believe image is everything and Cadillac isn't an image brand in his mind and never will be (which to an extent I agree). What I did find very funny is how he commented on the bland side view of the CTS when I see nothing but E-Class there!

Oh I've admitted exactly that for years. And no one believes me.
Brand... high quality craftsmanship... style... prestige... image are all very high on the list for me. Buy a Cadillac is "frowned" upon in my circles, unless it's got a "V" at the end of it. And even then you'd still have to justify why you didn't get an M or AMG or RS. Why? Because, aside from horsepower, the V really didn't have anything that stood toe-to-toe with the German performance cars. And even with a higher HP number, AMG still kept up with the V, and in some numbers outperformed it.

Cadillac has no prestige. There isn't a positive or upscale image about it. And the tech, until recently, is decidedly no techie enough.

I'm not that self-involved so for me I don't really care about how people view me or what those outside my family and friends think about me. I drive a Cadillac because I enjoy the cars they build and the rich history associated with it and even the history that isn't so great. The fact that GM can make the CTS such a no excuses, full fledged competitor makes me think they are done with the excuses. Still work to be done but it seems like they are finally doing it right.

Your'e not frustrated that Cadillac has abandoned its rich history and gone onto a new track?
CTS is the car that should have been the STS in 2007.

Remember, Cadillac is now trying to sell what was once the entry level car as a mid-sized decidedly non-entry level car. There's no "history" or "branding" for the CTS that is appropriate in that class. Cadillac, in essence, has to REINVENT the CTS. There will be some repercussions to this. It's a product positioning disaster. THe new base price of the CTS is nearly $10K more than the previous year. That's going to hurt a lot of people who bought the car because it was a "value proposition."


I don't want a Cadillac because it simply doesn't convey the image that "I've arrived." Driving a Cadillac doesn't convey success anymore. It conveys "compromise." And what still gets me is that Cadillac's marketing is so completely inept at defining the brand. Every other month, it seems, Cadillac tries something new. And it doesn't always work.