[mjd1001]

I have a question I really don't know the answer to..so maybe someone can help me out.

Is the Full sized Luxury market shrinking in size...the same way the non-luxury full size market seems to be getting smaller as people move to Larger crossovers? and non-luxury mid-sizers are losing market to crossovers also?

 

[asrapid1]

Hyundai, the Korean upstart, is able to produce a full size luxury sedan with a V8, while Cadillac, which has been around for over one hundred years, won't offer a V8 unless it's in a V.

But it's coming..in about year and half...and looking at the interior of Genesis G90 i don't think Cadillac's only worry is not having a V8.

 

[32016]

Really shows up the CT6. For those who screamed when I said the Caddy had a cheapo interior and insufficient, parts-bin engines, this product is more in line with what Cadillac should have done. The interior is many steps up from the Cadillac and of course the requisite V8 is present and accounted for. Further, the base engine isn't a 2.0 L four cylinder.

While CT6 may be lighter and perhaps a better drivers car, this car has what consumers will look for in a luxury car.

 

[mbukukanyau]

I love that the Quilting Mafia skipped this one.

I get it now. The CT6 is not a flagship. This is a proper flagship for a luxury brand. All the interior materials look top notch, real metal, high quality low gloss woods, perforated leather seating surfaces. I have to say, wow! I really hope this does not play in the same price range as the Cadillac or they are in real trouble.

Oh, and on a side note. Does it bother anyone else that on the dash board facia of the CT6, on the passenger side, their is no metal strip or transition between the plastic and wood? To my eyes, it just looks lazy and unfinished.

Metal strips add weight.

The Lexus LS 600h L/S Class weighs about 5300lbs and that has a Shorter width, Height, and about 5 inches less of a wheel base (that means its as large as a Town Car in the rear... In this League of cars, they could care less about weight, if anything, it would help them for comfort.. you Dont see people crying about Bentley and Rolls Royces. Did anyone else to look at the estimated 0-60 times??

Its about to get replaced here next year,

 

[Dequindre]

I really like the interior, but the exterior is a mish-mash of design cues that do not work well together.

 

[wescoent]

So selling as many sedans as Lincoln does at a higher ATP without the separate overhead in terms of sales and marketing is flushing money down the toilet? Lincoln cannot move 3K MKCs in the hottest premium segment yet Hyundai is moving in excess of 3K in the dying full size segment. I'm not understanding your argument.

Huh? Hyundai sells 3,000 Equus sedans PER YEAR, not per month.

It's not entirely different from Jaguar's low XJ volume in spite of their brand (damaged as it may have been), nothing like the LS, 7-Series, or S-Class. It would've been similarly ridiculous for anyone to expect that sort of volume anyway. And there's no way they're losing money on these (even with their discount) given how well they sell in their domestic market. As with a Land Cruiser or Chevy SS, NA sales are just gravy. I agree with you on the dealer aspect. I think they should've debuted a Genesis network. Downside I guess is that they only have a couple of vehicles to sell, but so did Lexus. Lexus sold a bunch of LS400s in their early years, but the approach was completely different. Lexus priced the LS at about half the price of an S-Class and I think a V-8 7-Series or V8 Quattro were in the 55-60K range, so still substantially cheaper. The Equus comparatively competes in a far more saturated luxury market. Again, right from the beginning Hyundai wanted 2-3,000 annually and it has exceeded that. It's not as if they backpedaled recently and readjusted their goals.

But back to the reasons people must keep in mind:

1) It may have a 30+% discount relative to most peers, but it also has about, oh, 10% of the brand equity. Not much different from Chevy hypothetically selling loaded Caprices here for that sort of money.
2) This is the first generation of a Hyundai product anywhere near this level. Therefore it is not established, which compounds the lack of brand credibility at this price tier.
3) They cannot compete on dealer experience like Lexus did, either. Yeah they will bring you the vehicle and so on, but as a total experience they are not competing.
4) Though a good car, it's not at parity (in terms of quality) with any of its competitors either.
5) There's no AWD version available, and limited options. I anticipate that an AWD option alone would've increased sales marginally for Hyundai. I am not talking 100% increases to Lexus LS volume but there'd be obvious gains. AWD in this price range is a requirement these days.

So, does the new one have AWD?

 

[steve333]

Hyundai makes a better luxury interior than Cadillac.
Why are Cadillac designers still employed? I could say the same about Chevy designers

 

[sfbreh]

Audi called, they want their interior back.

Melt this down like they did all those counterfeit Legos not too long ago.

 

[nferr]

Hyundai makes a better luxury interior than Cadillac.
Why are Cadillac designers still employed? I could say the same about Chevy designers

The CT6 is going to outsell this thing by five to one IMO. There's a lot more to a luxury car than the interior.

 

[Amphibian]

I have a question I really don't know the answer to..so maybe someone can help me out.

Is the Full sized Luxury market shrinking in size...the same way the non-luxury full size market seems to be getting smaller as people move to Larger crossovers? and non-luxury mid-sizers are losing market to crossovers also?

The popularity of large sedans such as these in Europe and the US is waning. However, they'll continue to be important for markets like Asia, the ME, and even Russia. Envoy4Life said earlier in this thread that there are 10,000 orders for this vehicle already, which I assume is just in Korea. Not bad considering they should be pushing it heavily in China and the ME. For comparison, Audi will sell about half that many A8s this year in the US.

So, does the new one have AWD?

Yes.

The CT6 is going to outsell this thing by five to one IMO. There's a lot more to a luxury car than the interior.

Cadillac and Lincoln will both outsell this in all likelihood. This G90 seems quite nice as a product, but there are build in demographics that'll be more responsive to a large Lincoln or Cadillac. Even if they aren't German-tier brands, they still have some nominal level of prestige (although Lincoln versus Genesis might be more questionable) whereas Genesis remains a relative unknown. For customers looking at a better value than a conventional German sedan, there will also be a new Lexus LS. I think these sedans will largely cancel out increased volume potential of moving to the Genesis brand, offering AWD, and simply being a newer better product.

 

[Frank Nitty]

I'm sure they will sell a few of these. Unfortunately, like the the Lincoln Continental concept the G90 seems to be a mishmash of the very vehicles it's supposed to compete with.

 

[MiatsoCi]

Hyundai, the Korean upstart, is able to produce a full size luxury sedan with a V8, while Cadillac, which has been around for over one hundred years, won't offer a V8 unless it's in a V.

Cadillac has been innovating for 100 years.. Hyundai Automotive has been copying, poorly, for 50.

It always amazes me that people act as tho Hyundai is a new company. Stating it as an insult should only be done when actually knowing what U are talking about.

Don't even get me started........outside of V's, which Cadillac car is better than this? (other than weight)

Get started.. because I would put the XTS TTV6 VSport up against this WITHOUT a V8 and be very confident in that competition. Furthermore it takes a great deal of engineering to put out a 3600lb-4000lb 204inch Luxury vehicle

 

[mbukukanyau]

Hyundai makes a better luxury interior than Cadillac.
Why are Cadillac designers still employed? I could say the same about Chevy designers

Its not better than Cadillac, its all in your head, go to a Cadillac dealership and look at a Vsport or Escalade interior.
Then find something better out there. Tell me what you find.

 

[MiatsoCi]

There are compromises with this car even if they are not they are evident at this point. I know this because it costs everyone the same to build a car, give or take.

Hyundai did not find the secret to building a legitimate, world class full size flagship for half the price of the competition. The 5700 lb weight should be an indication of it's compromises.

Bringing back to my comment. 5700 lbs tells me that they basically have non-innovation wrapped in an AudiWannabe Wrapper. Lets be clear.. 5700 lbs is the weight of a SUBURBAN LOADED

 

[1958carnut]

I like the interior as it looks pretty upscale and rich but the outside I think they could have done better, kind of meh, whatever.

 

[Envoy4Life]

I'd wait on the weight numbers, guys. Reading through the Press Release, weight is listed as "Gross Vehicle Weight", which I'm thinking is short for GVWR, which is the MAXIMUM the car can weigh, passengers, fuel, and all. Not a lack of engineering, like some of you were quick to jump to. What a surprise.

The CT6's maximum GVWR is 5,414 lbs. So that sounds about right.

 

[Envoy4Life]

Genesis has released additional pictures of the G90:

 

[Envoy4Life]

It really looks much better than I expected. Hyundai is improving its product at a phenomenal rate. If they can continue to improve their quality, they will be a force.

Bingo.

Don't even get me started........outside of V's, which Cadillac car is better than this? (other than weight)

None.

This car singlehandedly outclasses every single Cadillac sedan for sale today.

And that's something I called will happen months ago, when this car was out testing as a prototype.

Honestly, I'm not impressed. How does this move the bar forward, in any way, versus the existing Equus, which they can't seem to sell?

This is a at most, $63,000 base car. Get real. Likely even cheaper if the 3.8L makes it to America.

Find me a better car for that money. I'll be waiting.

I get it now. The CT6 is not a flagship. This is a proper flagship for a luxury brand. All the interior materials look top notch, real metal, high quality low gloss woods, perforated leather seating surfaces. I have to say, wow! I really hope this does not play in the same price range as the Cadillac or they are in real trouble.

Oh, and on a side note. Does it bother anyone else that on the dash board facia of the CT6, on the passenger side, their is no metal strip or transition between the plastic and wood? To my eyes, it just looks lazy and unfinished.

Bingo.

Selling 250 a month is pretty bad IMO. Sugarcoat it any want you want.

This car will sell far more than 250 a month. This is a global vehicle, and already has over 10,000 orders in its home market, which all came before people even knew what the car was going to look like and feature.

Not for the segment it competes it with their brand. As noted, that's right in line with what their goal was, so if it was half of that much then it'd be problematic (and as you can see it has consistently exceeded their goals). Flagship sedans are not a high volume segment.

Exactly.

I've said it before the exterior looks very generic to me. The front looks like an Audi the rear looks like a jaguar. The interior is nice though. I still can't see people spending so much money for a Korean car no matter what they call it!

Because the Korean car in question just blew away its main competition that come from America and Europe?

That's ridiculous. The Equus sells at a nearly 30% discount to its supposed competitors, but still doesn't come anywhere near them in sales.

Until Genesis gets its own sales and marketing channel, this is just flushing money down the toilet.

Repeat after me:

Equus was badged as a Hyundai. That's why Genesis was created.

The same brand that makes $15,000 subcompacts. That's not a good base for a luxury brand. It's actually incredible that the Equus sold that many units.

Genesis is the second coming of Lexus. Mark my words.

Really shows up the CT6. For those who screamed when I said the Caddy had a cheapo interior and insufficient, parts-bin engines, this product is more in line with what Cadillac should have done. The interior is many steps up from the Cadillac and of course the requisite V8 is present and accounted for. Further, the base engine isn't a 2.0 L four cylinder.

While CT6 may be lighter and perhaps a better drivers car, this car has what consumers will look for in a luxury car.

Bingo.

The CT6 is going to outsell this thing by five to one IMO. There's a lot more to a luxury car than the interior.

You have it ass backwards. This will be outselling the CT6 5 to 1 globally.

Again, 10,000 orders before the car was even shown/revealed.

Get started.. because I would put the XTS TTV6 VSport up against this WITHOUT a V8 and be very confident in that competition.

Enjoy your outdated, wrong wheel drive Epsilon II then. :fall:

Its not better than Cadillac, its all in your head, go to a Cadillac dealership and look at a Vsport or Escalade interior.
Then find something better out there. Tell me what you find.

I went and looked at both cars the other day, actually. This car is better than both. Way better.

Not. Even. Close.

 

[wescoent]

This is a at most, $63,000 base car. Get real.

Find me a better car for that money. I'll be waiting.

Repeat after me:

Equus was badged as a Hyundai. That's why Genesis was created.

The same brand that makes $15,000 subcompacts. That's not a good base for a luxury brand. It's actually incredible that the Equus sold that many units.

Going back to my earlier question, is Genesis going to be a separate sales channel, or are they just going to be sold in Hyundai dealers?

I've looked at the current Equus, and the photos are far more impressive than the real thing. Very underwhelming, in almost every way.

"Genesis", as a brand, has no history, and no real value, at the moment. The success or failure will depend on their ability to build it. Why is a Genesis better than a Lexus, price being equal? What feelings should a Genesis evoke? What kind of person owns a Genesis?

 

[Envoy4Life]

Going back to my earlier question, is Genesis going to be a separate sales channel, or are they just going to be sold in Hyundai dealers?

I've looked at the current Equus, and the photos are far more impressive than the real thing. Very underwhelming, in almost every way.

"Genesis", as a brand, has no history, and no real value, at the moment. The success or failure will depend on their ability to build it. Why is a Genesis better than a Lexus, price being equal? What feelings should a Genesis evoke? What kind of person owns a Genesis?

I would think that Genesis brand cars will be sold at Hyundai dealerships for the time being until their own dealerships/sales channels are built/created. I don't think this will take long, as the Koreans tend to move and work fast.

Lexus had nothing back in 1990. This car is in the same boat. I think this car will be the start of something great for the Genesis brand. And if initial sales are to be believed, it's already a runaway success in Korea.

Genesis is a new brand that just launched its most important car, and they didn't botch it. I want to see this car in person. I hope its at NAIAS, and I hope we can sit in it. I'm very impressed.

Also - Could you find a better interior at the $60,000 price point like I asked?