[Supernoma]

I remember seeing a prototype V-10 casting core at a tour of a Powertrain plant. I dont think it's for this engine though, as this plant primarily makes iron castings and the Inline 4/5 engine castings.

 

[Cortazzo]

I don't get what the big OHV/OHC debate is. It's rare to even meet someone that knows the difference, let alone what their car has. If it is smooth, powerful, and efficient, I don't see what the problem is if the v10 is ohv. The reaction to the v series in the car rags has been pretty good, i think they just used that line as a lead in to justify the new engine announcement.

 

[Ghrankenstein]

The LS series of OHV engines are anything but "rough" guys! I wouldn't see the problem with using an OHV V-10 for the super high performance versions. I would say, so what if your car is silky smooth, mine makes more power, is lighter, and gets better fuel mileage, lol.

A great point. The 2005 2x4 Escalade, with the Vortec 6000 rates at 15/20, darn solid for the #3 poster boy (behind the H2 and Suburban) of the "GM pushes gas guzzlers" crowd.

I pointed out that the LS2 in the C6 was actually too quiet, despite the hours and dollars spent on tuning the exhaust note. This is, to a great degree, due to the C6's closed trunk area and added sound deadening material, but the whole point is that a pushrod can be quiet if it wants to be. Look at the VORTEC V-8 engines, especially in the GMT360's.

Flip the coin to the V-Series, and the current CTS-V is powerful and refined (short of the M3), but it still retains the distinctive snort that many American drivers will want to amplify, at opportune times, with the [Bose tuned] Corsa exhaust. Don't underestimate the appeal of a little testosterone with your mega-horsepower.

And don't forget that the '05 Avalon has plenty of meterosexual horsepower, and yet still manages to sound weak.

 

[nailhead425]

Re: GMI Exclusive: Next Generation 'V-Series' Information

And how can you possibly tell if it will or won't make Cadillac world class?

V-10 Experience. A little knowledge of other products in the market place. A little M.E. experience. Stuff like that.

Have you seen or driven any of these V-10 models?

Let me guess...it's "blisteringly fast"?

ALL V-10s have major NVH issues to overcome.

That being said, it will have to have some serious metal in the crank, an odd-fire sequence, or two counter spinning balance shafts, to be as smooth as a V-8. It should be a 60* V-12 with cyl deactivation, ohc, etc., etc. to be world class. I am a huge flag waver of the Gen III and IV small blocks, but a V-10 version is a mistake. BTW...initial rumors of a 7.5L V-10, works out perfectly when the 101.6mm bore and 92mm stroke of the 6000 are used in a 10 cyl engine. 7458.8cc, or 455ci. hmm...a new 455. Nah, still a V-10!

 

[nailhead425]

If this new V10 is based on the LS2/LS7 architecture, then that'll make it a 90° OHV engine. I've read in Motor Trend that an experimental LS-derived V10 was having massive vibration problems, to the point of causing crankshaft failures. If that's so, then how is the BMW M5's V10 making due besides being a DOHC engine with Bi-Vanos? (I don't think the Bimmer engine is 90°) And I do believe the Viper is running a 90° V-10 as well, and it doesn't have any massive vibration problems (at least less so than the last generation Viper) I do believe a 72° setup is ideal for a V-10, I don't remember.

NVH is a HUGE problem, you are 100% right.

The smoothest V-8, with 2-cyls cut off, will be a rough 90* V-6. Ditto for the adding two and making a V-10. A 72* engine is better, but it is very hard to have an ideal, even-fire, V-10. Which is why V-10s aren't common, unlike V-8s. The added length of a V-12 would be easier to accommodate than the added height of a 72* V-10.

 

[ViperDVMan]

Believe me, I'm all for a V10 in GM's engine lineup, as there are a few vehicles in GM's line up that can really make use of it. But until GM can sort out the NVH problems I've been reading about, I don't think it'll work in a Cadillac......yet.

But for now, I believe an engine based on the XV12 from the Cien is Cadillac's best option to satisfy both those who hunger for power and those who hunger for refinement (i.e. the press and the buyers of German marques)

This post inspired me to create this banner:

 

[Archangel]

Cadillac can just up the boost and tweak a little to generate around 470hp. By the time Cadillac puts in a 500hp V10, BMW's M5 will have something with 575hp.

 

[hyperv6]

The only engine for the Caddy is a Northstar V12 DOHC. I don't really care for DOHC but in Caddys price class they will be burnt at the stake for doing a Pushrod V10 by the press.

Besides the V10 is ment for the trucks anyway.

V10 engines no prize for harshness and sound like a school bus with aftermarket exhausts. We did a exhaust on my friends Viper and he even hated the sound of it. V12 engines are smooth with no help and for anyone who heard a Castrol Jag or Group 44 Jag at the track know how great a 9,000 RPM V12 can sound like.

 

[goblue]

Believe me, I'm all for a V10 in GM's engine lineup, as there are a few vehicles in GM's line up that can really make use of it. But until GM can sort out the NVH problems I've been reading about, I don't think it'll work in a Cadillac......yet.

But for now, I believe an engine based on the XV12 from the Cien is Cadillac's best option to satisfy both those who hunger for power and those who hunger for refinement (i.e. the press and the buyers of German marques)

This post inspired me to create this banner:

You've got my vote!
This really is a no brainer. The bencounters are trying to take profits from Caddy before it really even gets going. Surefire way to damage the brand and show it really isn't up to the task of competing.

BTW, I've driven the CTS-V, albeit briefly, but can wholeheartidly say that is not a smooth engine. I'd love to have a Vette with it - but would never buy a 70K luxury daily driver with something that sounds like that at idle.

This is going to sound harsh - but based on GM's entire OHV engine lineup - they are the wrong company to attempt to quell NVH on a V10. GM has already taken what was once a great idea, OHV, and turned it into a running joke in the press - seems GM powertrain engineers can't tune resonances out of an engine to save their life. I hope to be pleasantly surprised with the truck engine, but the 3800 may prove to be their only victory in this area.

 

[VivienM]

I hope to be pleasantly surprised with the truck engine, but the 3800 may prove to be their only victory in this area.

And funnily enough, the 3800 is the engine everybody seems to want to kill...

 

[nailhead425]

And funnily enough, the 3800 is the engine everybody seems to want to kill...

I am a huge 3800 fan, bigger than the Gen III/IV SBCs, but without millions worth of updates, it's day has past.

 

[VivienM]

I am a huge 3800 fan, bigger than the Gen III/IV SBCs, but without millions worth of updates, it's day has past.

Do you have any experience with the Series III? I wonder if it actually improves upon the II - they claimed NVH improvements, but I'm always weary when it comes to GM marketing claims.

That said... 3800 vs 3500, which would you pick?

 

[nailhead425]

Do you have any experience with the Series III? I wonder if it actually improves upon the II - they claimed NVH improvements, but I'm always weary when it comes to GM marketing claims.

That said... 3800 vs 3500, which would you pick?

A little III experience, but not enough to say that they are much better.

I'd take the 3800. But, for anyone who doesn't know the difference, take the 3500.

 

[VivienM]

I'd take the 3800. But, for anyone who doesn't know the difference, take the 3500.

Okay... why?

 

[nphillips]

V-10 sounds good to me.

 

[nailhead425]

Okay... why?

Because the 3800 is long in tooth and gets plenty of negative press because of it. I like it because it is an incredibly well designed and robust engine.

To most people old=bad. That's why most stuff should have a newer engine.

 

[purplehaze]

Re: GMI Exclusive: Next Generation 'V-Series' Information

Nice, but still won't make Cadillac a world class car.

GM needs to throw a little more in it's other bread and butter divisions.

What do you expect from a world class car?


Seems to me like they might be headed in that direction.

 

[purplehaze]

Curious when GM is going to stop bull$^!T%$#. They have had this V12 engine for some time now and I heard a comment from GM that stated they had nothing to put the V12 in. (toss it in a DTS if you have to) Specifications I have seen floating on the net claim 750hp and that to me is all she wrote. Obviously you can see the Cadillac lineup can use this engine, but instead they shove a V10 in it.

 

[CHEVYDURAMAX-03]

like the V10 idea but would rather have the 7.0L V8 and a manual in the STS-v and XLR-v

 

[RERM]

GM and Cadillac should stop ********************footing around (what's gotten them in trouble in the first place) and build the following:

1. CTS - V6
2. CTSV - V8 (Northstar or Vette, WHO CARES!!! as long as it has at least 400H.P.)
3. STS - V6, V8 (300 to 375 H.P.)
4. STSV- V10 (500H.P. to 650 H.P.)
5. DTS - V8, V12
6. DTSV - Twin T V12 (650H.P. +)
7. XLR - V8, Twin T V12 (450H.P. to 700H.P.)
8. Escalade - V8 (400H.P.)
9. EscaladeV- V10
10. SRX - V6, V8
11. SRXV- V10
12. Sixteen (do I really need to explain)

Cadillac is supposed to be a super luxury brand, treat it that way, leave mass market luxury to Buick (wow!! could that be a new focus for the division).

Cadillac made it's name as the brand of wretched excess...DO IT, NO CADILLAC SHOULD BE OUT HORSEPOWERED BY ANY LUXURY CAR PERIOD.

Affordable luxury, sales volume = BUICK.