Not a bad article, but not much going about new Caddys showing up a Pebble Beach. There's just a teaser about something cool, that's it.

 

Damn, that headline had me WIRED something cool and NEW would be there. Hard to believe I am this psyched these days about Cadillac....a hopeful sign to me.

 

That makes 2 of us, John!

 

For my generation the ATS is absolutely required for Cadillac. If they don't build a competitive, RWD, sporty ATS, I will take my money to BMW. It's that simple. I don't care how many fins they stick on it, I'm not buying a land barge just because it's pretty.

 

If it's BMW you want, buy it! Spending billions of dollars to perhaps interest the fashionista/fickle is a waste of resources aka GAMBLING! If right now there is no Cadillac that interests you, what makes you think one can be built? This is the problem with new favors at 32 Flavors, some just like Ben and Jerry's and like the Borg they have been assimilated!

:drive:

 

Just another opinion, but I think Cadillac needs both the XTS and ATS. I am not in the market for these cars but I can see a market of luxury buyers whom appreciate both models groups. Traditional luxury and sport luxury.

JLM

 

The ATS needs to be so good that potential buyers go "Wow! That's the best looking, best performing car I've ever seen."
Can Cadillac do it? I don't know, and based on their past history, I am doubtful. Here is my take on such a car:
ATS - 4 cylinder turbo, 10 mile battery, leather optional, awd optional, advanced infotainment including navigation, great style for $29,995.
ATS -4 - awd 3.6 V6, 6 speed auto and dsg, leather seating, advanced infotainment, coupe and convertible, for $35,000.
ATS-V - rwd 5.5L di LS V8, producing 450 hp, leather infotainment, super brakes, FE3 suspension, coupe and convertible, loaded for $40,000.
With those features and those prices, throwing in a long warranty, people would go, Wow, I gotta have one.
As Cadillac then struggles to produce to demand, the market sets what the ultimate price is to be. My guess is a $5-10,000 dealer mark up, with Cadillac then pricing the car higher to keep the adp for themselves.

 

Those prices seem a little low to me, but if GM can give you all that for that little and still make a profit, i'll be in line for a V series. I'm hoping the ATS has a compelling design, reasonable price levels, high performance, and reasonable eqiupment levels. I was considering snatching up one of the remaining G8 GTs until I saw just how big it was and how light it is on technology. I hope GM is going to release this thing soon. I'd LOVE to get rid of my VW for the right sport luxury sedan. Audi and BMW are too pricey for what you get, i'm not a fan of the Acura TLs styling, and noone else has anything i'm interested in right now.

 

Fact : very few people below age 26 can afford a new BMW or Cadillac..even a 3 seies or CTS. Cadillac desperately NEEDS a LARGE, Premium , FULL SIZE ++ 6 passenger sedan with plenty of stretching out leg room front and rear - built for and marketed to succesful employed people and corporations and professionals who can actually afford such a vehicle. Anything less = a Cadillac fail.

 

Does anyone know of any photos/drawings of the XTS or is it that tightly controlled that nobody was ever allowed to have what they saw professionally drawn?

 

I've been obsessing on that point for months.....I feel so much suspense about how this car LOOKS.

 

Unfortunately for Cadillac, it needs to become the value proposition to win sales from the established players, a value so strong that people will say it looks great, I can afford it, I'll give Cadillac a try. Low prices would mean strong sales for the ATS.
The XTS also needs to be priced under the competition while delivering as much as they deliver.

 

Unfortunately for Cadillac, it needs to become the value proposition to win sales from the established players, a value so strong that people will say it looks great, I can afford it, I'll give Cadillac a try. Low prices would mean strong sales for the ATS.
The XTS also needs to be priced under the competition while delivering as much as they deliver.

No! Cadillac needs to once again become a premium Luxury Division for General Motors, or it should be sold off to another entity, such as FORD sold Jaguar to TATA. Selling cars at discount or value price is what: Kia, Chevrolet, Ford, Toyota, etc do! If Cadillac is selling Discounted Prices, it is a Kmart featured brand, not Luxury! If the ATS depends upon a low price point, it is already a failure (low profit loss leader), then it should be a Buick, never sold at Cadillac Dealership!

One of the reasons these disagreements become so heated is because Non-Cadillac purchasers do not really understand the Cadillac allure. Cadillac was always that special something to attain--since early childhood for me. However, since 2006, Cadillac has lost its allure sending me to other suitors and that would be OK if it was just, I. Unfortunately, that is not the case as apparently more than half of all Cadillac buyers have left the Brand. Instead of previous management pursuing those customers, they threw up their hands and decided to seek replacements where no interest ever existed! This has always been a precursor to ultimate business failure!


:drive:

 

I fully understand the allure of Cadillac. I loved my parents' Cadillacs, but saw the problems they had as well.
I want Cadillac back at the top, but to get there, they have to produce superior products that cost LESS than BMW, MB, and Audi. Maybe it's wrong to think in terms of value, because none of them are value equal to their purchase prices. But at least, better values than BMW, MB and Audi.

 

I did not include you in the first paragraph under the allure issue. However, mentioning price will get us back into Old GM territory, that means: discounts, loss leaders, discontenting, and lower resale (which will make leasing unprofitable for Lenders). Leasing perhaps unfortunately might be the primary avenue of obtaining Luxury purchases for many in the next few years therefore much has to be done to maintain value.

:drive:

 

And shouldn't the title of this thread read something like: "New Cadillac Paint Finish to debut at Pebble Beach"?



.

 

Ya know, I got to clicking around on that site and read "part one" of the article as well. Clay Dean, chief designer for Cadillac, has implied that we will be getting expanded color choioces for interiors soon.

Glory be!

 

If we (rightly) assume that GM execs aren't idiots, they want Cadillac to resume its position of great American luxury. How, when, what, at what cost, are unknown to us, but we have to assume they have a plan.
As they continue to roll out more product, their vision of Cadillac will become clearer to us. I see the XTS as the new generation of the fwd DTS, and should be named DTS. The current CTS should be upsized and renamed STS, while the small Caddy should be renamed CTS, to fit the name to the actual size class into which they will compete. I would expect the big rwd/awd sedan that will compete most directly with the S and 7 will have to await PROFITS, something sorely lacking right now for GM.

 

If we (rightly) assume that GM execs aren't idiots, they want Cadillac to resume its position of great American luxury. How, when, what, at what cost, are unknown to us, but we have to assume they have a plan.

All things being equal, I agree.

As they continue to roll out more product, their vision of Cadillac will become clearer to us. I see the XTS as the new generation of the fwd DTS, and should be named DTS. The current CTS should be upsized and renamed STS, while the small Caddy should be renamed CTS, to fit the name to the actual size class into which they will compete. I would expect the big rwd/awd sedan that will compete most directly with the S and 7 will have to await PROFITS, something sorely lacking right now for GM.

On this I could not agree MORE.

Part of the confusion in the market about Cadillac is the nearly constant invention and rearrangement of nomenclature. The CTS has been wildly successful as the entry level Cadillac. I agree that, if timing of these new products allows, that the new Alpha car(s) should take the name CTS. The enlarged Sigma car, if that plan is still in place, should take the name of STS. And no matter what, I do want the new large car to be called DTS. There is, though, the complicating factor of timing. The DTS will be gone by the middle of next year. The new car isn't due until 2011. There would be 9 months minimum between them at the dealership level. (I suppose GM could build a large bunch of the current DTS next year and stock the dealers full to bridge the gap, but the car doesn't sell very well any more anyway.)

There's always the hope that GM has elected to move-up the timing of the new car. But as a shareholder I would prefer GM err on the side of quality. It's so very important that any new product from now on be "right" from the very first unit off the line. There is too much at stake. The market will allow no screw-ups.

 

PaulSTS1, you wrote: "However, mentioning price will get us back into Old GM territory, that means: discounts, loss leaders, discontenting, and lower resale (which will make leasing unprofitable for Lenders)."
That isn't what i mean. I'm not talking about discounts, discontenting and lower resale. Maybe what I am suggesting is closer to a loss leader, but I don't think so. I would suggest well-contented attractive cars that are priced to where the market says that the car is better than the asking price. It offers superior product at a great price. For example, if you offered a loaded LaCrosse with everything on it for $29,000, people would recognize the car was worth every penny AND MORE. They would sell at as fast a rate as they could be built at. Dealers would start tacking on additional dealer profit, possible because of high demand and limited supply. In addition, the new cars would carry OnStar for the life of the new car warranty, which I would make 7 or more years, 100,000 miles minimum with 0 cost maintenance. Think BMW warranty to 7 years, to give an example.
The net would be a highly desirable car with greater resale, with dealers charging a $5,000 adp. This would be followed up with the suggested retail price going to the level of the car plus adp, the true value of the car. This is what I would propose, rather than a discounted, de-contented car.

 

^^^Actually I sincerely hope you are right! General Motors will not survive another major fail!

:drive:

 

If GM doesn't figure out how to sell more cars, they will fail again.
My formula to get GM going again is a long warranty that tells buyers that GM will stand behind their cars, rather than you getting stuck with a lemon. That means that Cadillac would warrant, long-term, the Northstar engine with all its attendant problems, and all the other messes of old GM.
While people would argue that GM can't afford to do it, Hyundai DID it, so I don't buy that premise.
What would be more appropriate for GM to get stuck with lemons, rather than the buying public?
If GM truly believes that the best car, theirs, will win, I say SHOW ME.