[Michael_S]

Something tells me that the CTS-V is going to wipe the floor with the IS-F.

Lexus models, even the sportier ones, usually aren't considered as top handlers or really fun to drive in the luxury sport class, and the new CTS is getting good (Car and Driver, MotorTrend) to outstanding (Edmunds) reviews for handling.

However, the Lexus IS is much smaller than the CTS. So I wouldn't be surprised if the CTS-V outruns the IS-F in a straight line and is reviewed as more fun to drive, but loses in the actual slalom comparisons and such just because of its length, width, and weight disadvantage.

 

[xioix]

Lexus models, even the sportier ones, usually aren't considered as top handlers or really fun to drive in the luxury sport class, and the new CTS is getting good (Car and Driver, MotorTrend) to outstanding (Edmunds) reviews for handling.

However, the Lexus IS is much smaller than the CTS. So I wouldn't be surprised if the CTS-V outruns the IS-F in a straight line and is reviewed as more fun to drive, but loses in the actual slalom comparisons and such just because of its length, width, and weight disadvantage.

The IS300 was considered a very good handling car with sporty feel, it just didn't have the power to go with it

 

[61BelAir]

I've driven the IS350 and its a nice car. I wouldn't buy one though. The IS-F sounds like its gonna be plenty fast but the article says estimates of torque are in the 350 lb-ft range. Seems kind of low for a 5.0L 400+ hp engine.

 

[xioix]

I've driven the IS350 and its a nice car. I wouldn't buy one though. The IS-F sounds like its gonna be plenty fast but the article says estimates of torque are in the 350 lb-ft range. Seems kind of low for a 5.0L 400+ hp engine.

Its a little bit over 370

 

[Michael_S]

Its a little bit over 370

Most of the luxury V8s in the 4.6 liter displacement range have 360 pound feet of torque or less. 370 for 5 liters seems respectable, if not great, to me.

 

[nsap]

May or may not..hard to speculate without a physical car to judge the two.

Well we know FOR SURE it will have 500-600 HP. So is there really anything to speculate?

You of all people should know that whenever a thread on or about Lexus/Toyota, there will be dumb comments no matter if it has 1000 hp or not. Shii, even other Japanese car makers too for the matter of fact also.

Yes, and the very same happens in GM threads. Welcome to the world of opinions. Some biased, some think they are balanced, some really are balanced.

Regardless, promoting such tomfoolery does not help the matter. I think much of the issue is over-blown by some at this point, because it isn't going on much anymore.

 

[Ach]

67K is steep (just as the price is for the M3). I'd be much more excited by an IS350 with a manual.

 

[Ach]

The IS300 was considered a very good handling car with sporty feel, it just didn't have the power to go with it

Indeed it was. Perfect steering, slick shifter, and a very well balanced chassis. And the inline 6 wasn't a powerhouse, but it was so silky smooth- I was very disappointed when Toyota cancelled that motor.

 

[Robert Ryan]

Well we know FOR SURE it will have 500-600 HP. So is there really anything to speculate?

Well logically the rest of it. The Viper has 500hp but it is far from a great sportscar.

 

[Squachy]

Something tells me that the CTS-V is going to wipe the floor with the IS-F.

Not sure if it is or isnt but this comment is pretty much standard fare across this board for obvious reasons. I dont think anyone expects any different views in this regard.

I heard the 08 IS models handle much better than the previous ones.....something about steering getting recalibrated for more feel and the handling characteristics getting improved.

But of course theres no way to know unless someone actually gets in an 08IS and compares it with the previous years.

 

[xioix]

67K is steep (just as the price is for the M3). I'd be much more excited by an IS350 with a manual.

Japan prices and US prices are very different, doubt the US prices will start at 67k or be close it, when a fully loaded Neiman Marcus IS-F is 68k

 

[E. Haskell]

The Viper has 500hp but it is far from a great sportscar.

Ehh, very subjective. The Viper does what it is meant to do VERY well (deliver the performance/looks of a $200k exotic for under $90k).

 

[nsap]

Not sure if it is or isnt but this comment is pretty much standard fare across this board for obvious reasons. I dont think anyone expects any different views in this regard.

I heard the 08 IS models handle much better than the previous ones.....something about steering getting recalibrated for more feel and the handling characteristics getting improved.

But of course theres no way to know unless someone actually gets in an 08IS and compares it with the previous years.

What is wrong with speculation? If this were a thread about a GM product most people would be ripping it up one side and down the other because the [INSERT NAME OF NEXT BIG IMPORT PRODUCT HERE] is going to have [INSERT HIGHER HP NUMBER HERE] than the GM product.

I will be the first to admit we had problems on the board, but I am starting to think the problem lies with the people complaining about the problem that isn't really a problem anymore.:fall:

 

[Michael_S]

Well logically the rest of it. The Viper has 500hp but it is far from a great sportscar.

The new Viper has 600 horsepower, and it's getting some very good reviews for the way it drives.

 

[SweC32]

The new Viper just recorded faster track times than the z06 and the z06 is faster than the current 911TT, Gallardo, F430....(need I go on?)...and you don't think it is a very good sports car....It's a GREAT sports car.....As an overall car, it has many shortcomings....but as a car that is made to go around a track as fast as hell.....Only a handful on the planet can best it.....

(And I painfully say this as an owner of a new 2008 Z06...I thought it was the better overall package, but not for pure speed)

 

[Robert Ryan]

It's a GREAT sports car.....As an overall car, it has many shortcomings....but as a car that is made to go around a track as fast as hell.....Only a handful on the planet can best it.....

That is what I am talking about. As a track car fine..it is the driving on the highway's that it's many problems arise.

Ehh, very subjective. The Viper does what it is meant to do VERY well (deliver the performance/looks of a $200k exotic for under $90k).

Why buy it? unless it can do more than perform on a track? It appears others think the same thing, otherwise the car would be selling like hotcakes, it is not.

 

[E. Haskell]

Why buy it? unless it can do more than perform on a track? It appears others think the same thing, otherwise the car would be selling like hotcakes, it is not.

Why would a person buy a Lotus Elise or Ariel Atom? Would you argue that both are bad sports cars because they are simple and raw? I'd say that makes them even better sports cars!

Being a good sports car doesn't require being a luxury car and sports car at the same time.

Why do you say it should be selling like hotcakes? How many $90k sports cars are selling like hotcakes? I don't know of many - they are all rare. Obviously, the Viper is worthy of Chrysler keeping it around for 16 years. Regardless, sales figures have nothing to do with the Viper being a good or bad sports car.

 

[Robert Ryan]

Why do you say it should be selling like hotcakes? How many $90k sports cars are selling like hotcakes? I don't know of many - they are all rare. Obviously, the Viper is worthy of Chrysler keeping it around for 16 years. Regardless, sales figures have nothing to do with the Viper being a good or bad sports car.

Unfortunately in the real world it does. That is why the Lexus will be sold as a very fast "Luxury Sedan" in many markets and the raw Viper will not be.

Being a good sports car doesn't require being a luxury car and sports car at the same time.

Simply that is what the Lexus is doing and no doubt the Cadillac is trying to emulate it.

Why do you say it should be selling like hotcakes? How many $90k sports cars are selling like hotcakes? I don't know of many - they are all rare. Obviously, the Viper is worthy of Chrysler keeping it around for 16 years. Regardless, sales figures have nothing to do with the Viper being a good or bad sports car.

At $90,000 it does what a $200,000 car does? No it does not otherwise it would dominate the market. 16 yrs is a long time for a "cutting edge" Sportscar to be around, it is about time for a much newer and more user friendly design. The cuurent poor sales record suggests that maybe that is not far away.

 

[E. Haskell]

That is why the Lexus will be sold as a very fast "Luxury Sedan" in many markets and the raw Viper will not be.

Obviously. The Viper isn't trying to be luxury sedan.

Simply that is what the Lexus is doing and no doubt the Cadillac is trying to emulate it.

And?

At $90,000 it does what a $200,000 car does?

It provides the performance and looks of a $200k exotic.

No it does not otherwise it would dominate the market.

Why would it dominate the market? It's a niche vehicle. It isn't going to stop people from buying Porsches, Ferraris or Corvettes...no matter how good it performs. Everyone doesn't want a Viper....everyone doesn't want a Corvette. That doesn't make them bad sports cars.

16 yrs is a long time for a "cutting edge" Sportscar to be around, it is about time for a much newer and more user friendly design.

The Viper isn't about being the user friendly. Although the newer Viper is pretty civilized, the car still has some of the rawness that makes a Viper a Viper. Obviously you don't get it so you fault the Viper for being exactly what it was designed to be.

More importantly, you still haven't proven that the Viper is a bad sports car.

The cuurent poor sales record suggests that maybe that is not far away.

Poor sales compared to what? How many Vipers do you expect them to sell? How many does Chrysler want to sell?

 

[Robert Ryan]

t provides the performance and looks of a $200k exotic.

. It provides the performance of a $90,000 Sportscar on the track with pretty limited performance off it.

Why would it dominate the market? It's a niche vehicle. It isn't going to stop people from buying Porsches, Ferraris or Corvettes...no matter how good it performs. Everyone doesn't want a Viper....everyone doesn't want a Corvette. That doesn't make them bad sports cars.

If it was giving the value of a $200,000 vehicle for $90,000 Someone would do a doubletake before buying a Porsche , Ferrari etc. In other words the Viper would be the hot ticket for exotic sportscars. It is not.

More importantly, you still haven't proven that the Viper is a bad sports car.

It is not selling. It is a crude device off it. It is not winning anymore on the track. It was at it's prime 16yrs ago.