GM Inside News Forum banner

Hargrove 'fearful' for future of GM, Ford

6.7K views 51 replies 42 participants last post by  chinamonty  
#1 ·
http://ctv2.theglobeandmail.com/ser...rvlet/story/RTGAM.20080212.wrbuzz0212/business/Business/businessBN/ctv-business

OMAR EL AKKAD AND GREG KEENAN, Globe and Mail Update




The North American operations of Ford Motor Co. and General Motors Corp. could be forced into bankruptcy within a decade if Canada and the United States don't act to halt imports from South Korea and Japan, Canadian Auto Workers president Buzz Hargrove warned Tuesday.

Losses in market share are causing the two largest U.S. auto makers to scale back their operations in North America even as they increase their sales and investment in offshore markets such as South America and China, Mr. Hargrove said.

"I'm very fearful. Every month when I look at the numbers, the market share losses just keep growing. [For] Ford and GM I think there's only one scenario if you don't stem the market share losses," he said, following a meeting with Prime Minister Stephen Harper in Ottawa.

His comments came on the same day that GM announced a record auto industry loss of some $38.7-billion (U.S.) and revealed that it once again lost money in its home market of North America last year while turning a profit in Asia, Europe and Latin America.

That in turn, was just one day after auto parts maker Martinrea International Inc. announced that it is shutting its largest plant in Canada — the largest shutdown yet in a series of plant closings that has wiped out more than 11,000 jobs in the country's auto parts sector.

Mr. Hargrove has been seeking a meeting with Mr. Harper since the Conservatives were elected two years ago. The crisis afflicting segments of the auto and auto parts industry has deepened since then with the meteoric rise in value of the Canadian dollar.

"Just getting the meeting, I feel like a winner, after two years," Mr. Hargrove said.

But he outlined a litany of problems facing the industry, including the number of imports from Asia and Europe that far exceed the number of vehicles shipped there from Canada.

The union wants Mr. Harper to make a public statement saying Canada will no longer allow such imports to enter North America unless Japan and South Korea in particular open their markets to North American vehicles.

The CAW wants the Prime Minister to help persuade the United States to take the same action in a new North American auto pact.

The threat to the North American auto industry is evident right now with vehicles from South Korea and Japan, Mr. Hargrove said, even before low-cost vehicles from China and India begin arriving here in the next decade.

Mr. Hargrove pointed to GM's financial results released Tuesday as evidence of how the home market is becoming less important to the Detroit Three.

"GM is saying within a decade 75 per cent of their sales will be offshore," he said.

Much of their production will be as well, he said and that threatens jobs in Canada, where the Canadian units of Ford, GM and Chrysler LLC employ about 40,000 Canadians. Mr. Hargrove said Chrysler is already restructuring in other ways that will make it a smaller auto maker.
 
#3 ·
Halt imports? That would have a devastating impact on the economy, trying to force people to the domestic brands to save their unions.

If Hargrove really wanted to save GM and Ford then he'd push to de-unionize them. Both companies also need massive reductions in their white collar bureaucracies still.
 
#4 ·
The only think I agree with him is that Japan should eliminate the tariff it has on imported vehicles, because now he is fearful but threatens to shut down GM in the new negotiations
 
#5 ·
the U.S. market has shown that it supports good products and bad ones don't typically last long. then again, they will also support low prices, so as long as GM and Ford offer the best cars they can at the lowest prices, they're good. now it wouldn't hurt my feeling to see the government add a small tariff to imports to kind of help out a little bit. it would put some money back into the nation as well as support American business and American jobs by giving them a little price advantage. all in all, if GM keeps making cars like the new Malibu and CTS and Ford can follow suit, then they'll be okay. convincing people that American cars are back will be easy once the proof is on the road.
 
#6 ·
As aforesaid, he should push for the de-unionization of the auto companies for a more competitive stance in the marketplace in regards to GM and Ford. Not only that, but maybe the US should try to slash the VER's that were enacted in the 1980's with Japan too.
 
#21 ·
The hell with de-unionizing them. He should push to move all manufacturing to China: wages are lower than minimum wage laws allow in North America, companies don't have to deal with environmental and worker rights laws, and taxes are lower.

Yep, move to China, that is what GM and Ford should do to stay competitive.
 
#7 ·
Once again, I have to question why he thinks Japan and Korea would want any of the domestic vehicles made in Canada. I think he's smoking the same drugs as Dalton.
 
#11 ·
I just saw something on TV recently about how American Vans (think E-series and Ramvan) are "cool" with the youth in Japan and people are paying big money to get them. Cars like Solstice would sell well in Japan. I think there would even be a market for Vue and possibly a lambda or too.
 
#9 ·
a free market only works if everyone's a player. the u.s is the only one. tariff them all.
 
#36 ·
Yes, The UAW, encouraging high school students to drop out for $30/hr since 1935.

I believe the founders of the UAW believed in the motto "honest work for honest pay". What is honest about someone bolting up seats for $35/hr and another$30/hr in benefits. Most people with degrees, teeth and indoor plumbing don't make that kind of money.

We all believe the seatbolter deserves reasonable money, but that is far from reasonable. Worst part is that while these peopel get paid that rediculous sum, they bite the hand that feeds them. You're only putting yourselves out of a job sooner.

Unions are suposed to protect employees, not destroy an employer. It has gone far beyond protecting employee rights.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Finally somebody with a brain. All vehicles made outside U.S. and Canada should be taxed. That should include gm, ford and chrysler. And the once that are built in U.S. and Canada should also be taxed if they use less then 80% of parts that are from U.S. and Canda. This is the only way American industry will be saved. How can anybody compete with korean cars when they make them for next to nothing. Or japanies cars with yen so weak. European automakers are in even greater disadvatige. They pay their workers more then American automakers do. Plus euro is stronger then dollar. That is why european union has tax on imported cars. America and canada shoudl do the same. U.S. And Canadian goverement does not realize that free trade does not work if only one side praticipate in it. Can anybody in America work for $5 per day and still be able to afford a house that is 200k and by a car that is 20K. Well in China they can because, they have cheap cars, Cheap house, Cheap Food. Free trade does not work. It only hurts america and canada. Made lutz should talk more about this then how global warming is S***. I think it is too. But most people do not want to hear that. How does that help gm by saying that???
Did you guys realized that it is cheaper to by Mercedes and BMW in America then it is in europe. I love mercedes and i drive one, i would not trade it for anything else. but why would govr. let that happen.
 
#20 ·
Finally somebody with a brain. All vehicles made outside U.S. and Canada should be taxed. That should include gm, ford and chrysler. And the once that are built in U.S. and Canada should also be taxed if they use less then 80% of parts that are e only way American industry will be saved.
If we're going to tax imports, why exclude Canadian made vehicles from taxation? Because they're next door? because they're union too. Why exclude Canada and include Mexico in the tariffs?If we're going to tax imorted cars, tax em all.
Ed
 
#16 ·
Seems to me the responsibility of government should be to ensure that free trade actually exists with our trading partners.

Beyond that, much of what GM and Ford face result from internal issues; therefore, they're the ones responsible for fixing them. Fortunately, they finally seem to seem to be addressing that to some degree.
 
#17 ·
How can they fix the problem when. It is so much cheaper for hyndai. To make elantra then it is for gm to make cobalt. So hynd. can make 3 times more in profit on elantra then gm can on cobalt. so gm needs to sell 3 times more cobalts just to make same profit as hynda is on its small car. Someting needs to be done here soon. Or we will lose our car industry just like we lost electronics and every other industry to japan and china. This time we could lose our car industry to koreans.
 
#18 · (Edited)
Wait. How old is this article? Wasn't this $38.7-billion loss reported a few qtrs. ago.
 
#22 ·
Didn't Harley Davidson have this happen to them long time ago to put it back on it's feet! Why not our auto industries now they need the help now! But hey it seem's no one gives a **** so why should I shopping for a new TUNDRA anyone?
 
#26 ·
The problem is just like you and me, they need to start spending less than they take in. Yes the union is part of the problem. Yes managment is part of the problem. Stop bickering and pointing fingers and get costs in line with what you can actually sell! I think we all know GM and Ford are building too many cars right now.
 
#29 ·
I have nothing wrong with Japan & Korea importing their goods as long as there is a true open market. I believe that the USA should post a tariff at least equal if not more than Japan and Korea places on the USA. The world needs our consumer $$$$, and we need to show it.
 
#31 ·
I agree fair trade over free trade, except with other nations that are willing to return free trade like Canada and Mexico.

Also
1 U.S. dollar = 1.00060036 Canadian dollars

The Canadian dollar is just slightly weaker than the USD. Almost 1:1.

I say tax any company that uses labor outside the North America, yet still does business in the North American region.

Why is no one including Mexico, has no one heard of the North American Free Trade Act (NAFTA), including this guy that the article is about, He of all of us should realize that Ford and GM also operate in Mexico and should be included.

just if your interested

1 U.S. dollar = 10.7614825 Mexican pesos
 
#33 ·
What a stupid thing to say.

It cost more to make cars in Japan than it does in the USA or Canada, even with these over-controlling, highly impractical and unnnecessary unions.

We have the advantage....we should encourage the Japanese to build thier products in Japan instead of China and ship them over.

As for South Korea....South Korea is a friend of the USA, so Canada can do what they want. They buy plenty of products from our country and our country's companies. They are also investing in America as far as the automotive side goes. GM is an American based company and they import cars from South Korea....because these same unions make it impossible to earn money in the USA on small cars. It's a bitter pill, but the UAW and CAW brought in on themselves.

The only thing CAW and UAW need to worry about is how to dismantle themselves.

The only thing GM and Ford need to worry about is re-learn how to make money on cars and stop complaining that imports have an advantage.
 
#34 ·
"As for South Korea....South Korea is a friend of the USA, so Canada can do what they want. They buy plenty of products from our country and our country's companies. They are also investing in America as far as the automotive side goes. GM is an American based company and they import cars from South Korea....because these same unions make it impossible to earn money in the USA on small cars. It's a bitter pill, but the UAW and CAW brought in on themselves.

The only thing CAW and UAW need to worry about is how to dismantle themselves.

The only thing GM and Ford need to worry about is re-learn how to make money on cars and stop complaining that imports have an advantage."

Well, I don't know if they brought it on themselves exactly. A lot of it has to do with GM and Ford management screwing things up to even allow these foreign makes to acquire such a huge chunk of the U.S. market. Furthermore, no one in the good ol' U.S. of A can compete with the labor costs of China or Korea. We all know that, and that's not the fault of the Unions. Afterall, the UAW and CAW aren't telling the Asians to pay their workers next to nothing.
 
#35 ·
If Japan and South Korea throw massive tariffs on American made vehicles into there country than the same should be done to them. If people blindly must have there little Asian ricer rockets then they should pay accordingly. Use the enemys weapons against themselves.
 
#37 ·
I believe in fair trade, if the japanese and koreans charge a $500 tax on every car imported from america or limit the numbers cars that can be imported then our goverment should do the exact same. This is not something that that should be limited to the auto industry it should be for any industry across the board.
 
#40 ·
He needs to talke to Barbara Boxer about CA regulating MPG. If they raise the requirement, imports will rise, in addition to the Indian and Chinese cars getting ready to hit our shores.
 
#44 ·
I used to be a Union supporter. In some ways, I still am. But if these unions keep doing stupid crap like this, well...they can shove it.
I have never really been a Union supporter but I have always been a Worker supporter.

The unions are not always looking out for the best interests of the workers but they can always be counted on to look out for the best interests of the union.
The real genius of Union leadership is in convincing many of the workers that they are all "in it together"
Unless the leadership of a union is also performing the same kind of labor as it's members then all they are is another needless level of burocracy.
 
#43 ·
VCDJ has a point. But too bad no one that matters will listen until it is too late. Hargrove is off in his time frame, though: it won't take ten years for the artificially low Asian currencies and other mercantilistic policies to permanently hurt GM or Ford. My estimate is five years at the most if we don't level-off the playing field.
 
#45 ·
The United States was able to force Japan to open its market to imported goods in the middle 1990s and it did no good because American vehicles did not meet Japanese consumer tastes (the vehicles also costs more because Japan still imposed a tariff on the imported vehicles). The Toyota Cavalier is the best example of how forcing a country to open its economy does not work, they should just tax all imported vehicles plain and simple.