Great stuff to hear!

I have a mental image, like I assume many do, of the XTS yacht but the Aveo continues to intrigue because it's the smallest & cheapest, yet has had so much positive rumors and NO real leaked true info other than "just wait...you won't believe it". Cool stuff, after the current run version, almost an unexpected surprise.

 

Sounds good...can't wait for Detroit this January.

Maybe the XTS won't be as bad as we think?

 

Very nice late night update thanks pal I can rest easy now.

(Waits for ATS) GM, I would kindly request consulting with me on key elements of the ATS :] That is, if you want it to sell.

 

Unfortunately, it seems as though the XTS will be as bad as we think......

 

I kind of like the idea of Cadillac offering 'all types of driving styles'; it makes the brand almost like a 'go to' luxury brand.

World class performance sedans (ATS,CTS)? check.
Cutting edge high-tech EVs (Converj)? check.
Silky smooth "chauffeur" cars (XTS, Escalade....)? check.

Of course no matter what driving experience you prefer, it's going to be highly luxurious and expensive to purchase...because it's a Cadillac.

 

XTS will be bad.

 

I hope it will be good! GM needs a competitive large Cadillac...

 

XTS I'm am not anticipating it at all however the ATS I am very much so.

 

This sounds so good. Can't wait! And Bob lutz, you gotta love that man.

 

really interested to see the new Aveo...

 

Probably not. Lutz also talked up the Cobalt as a game changer. At best it will be class competetive if we are lucky.

Sooo..... Cadillac continues to cater to 2 vastly different segments of the market. Wonderful.
Brand Bifurcation. Love it. And it all leads to one weaker brand because of multiple foci.

Congratulations GM. You've managed to learn absolutely nothing.

Spin machine.

All this does is lead to Brand Bifurcation. Just the way it is now.

So, there will be a "good Cadillac," which will be RWD vehicles. And there will be a "lesser Cadillac," which will be for FWD vehicles.

Brand Bifurcation. No one know what is what.
Perfect.

I hate to agree, but spot on.

You'd figure with the redundancy of two luxury brands GM wouldn't do this. Bad execution and pretty avoidable.

I think GM is afraid to take the sales hit by keeping Caddy limited to RWD vehicles and tries to offer broader appeal. Still if the product is excellent there is some benefit it not following exactly what BMW does. Cadillac also shouldn't only act as a follower.

 

I like what I hear about the XTS!

I still think the ATS is a waste of time and money, and I don't give a crap about the Aveo.

 

The XTS isn't going to be anything super.....

The ATS is probably going to be one of the most important Cadillac's in the history of Cadillac (if they get it right).

 

If the upcoming XTS is to be more of a traditional American smooth riding model then the CTS then should it not be called XLS instead?---Just sayin.

 

yes, indeed. t-touring and l-for luxury s-sedan. s-for s-series r in srx was recreational x crossover. that was the original naming scheme.

i hope he was ill-informed or only describing the base model or perhaps being too emphatic on the smooth riding factor. i do believe the XTS can be a successful interpretation of what a Cadillac should be. design will be the key factor--and i think this part will be a success. i hope the surfacing is great; i hope this is a strongly evolved, strongly emotive and striking, subtle Cadillac. give me some new 7-series type restrained surfacing and lines.

 

XTS: Talking to Nick Twork, I asked him questions regarding this upcoming vehicle, really trying to find out what Cadillac wants with a car like this. He explained to me that the segment that the XTS will be going into is a very large and profitable market, offering a softer side of driving. He talked about how brands like BMW focus on a certain type of driving style, being aggressive and sporty or comfortable and quiet. He said that Cadillac does not feel it should be secluded to one segment or the other, offering all types of driving styles. The XTS would obviously be in the latter, offering a much softer yet still capable driving vehicle. I had asked him if that in fact is going to draw comparisons to the new Buick LaCrosse, and he quickly dismissed that. He said that LaCrosse target is the ES350 type car, while the XTS will offer that type of comfort and quietness, but with a much more upscale type vehicle. I was about to rebut his answer, when he stopped me and said in a few months, we will see exactly what he was talking about. So does that mean an XTS type debut at Detroit 2010? It seems that this car could be in production faster than our next car.

Sooo..... Cadillac continues to cater to 2 vastly different segments of the market. Wonderful.
Brand Bifurcation. Love it. And it all leads to one weaker brand because of multiple foci.

Congratulations GM. You've managed to learn absolutely nothing.

Still no word on why "XTS" and not "DTS?"

ATS: Talking with Nick and Brian, they alluded to this car a lot when talking about the CTS. I had brought up the ATS as the three of us were standing right in front of the M3 that showed up and Mr. Nesbitt talked about how the 3-Series sales numbers are just so great and how the ATS would fill this void for Cadillac. Talking again with Nick, he brought up the fact that the CTS has moved up several thousand dollars within the first model year, leaving a void at the bottom of the lineup that is not filled by any vehicle right now. I then asked about this car's potential, to which at this point they did not have much to say, but that the focus for the ATS is the 3-Series.

3-series sales numbers are "so great?" Worldwide 3-series sales are 3x that of the entire global Cadillac lineup.

And for 30+ years, no car company has been unable to unseat it. The best car companies have been able to do is provide an alternative to the 3-series' narrow focus as a personal compact sport/performance car.

ATS is going to be an alternative to the 3-series. Fine. What is the differentiating factor? And what would make ATS a worthy alternative to the 3-series... or C-class or G or A4 or IS?? We'll have to wait and see. But this is a significantly competitive segment. They key to this segment is to not treat the car as an "entry level" or a "beginner" car. The car exists to make an impression of younger, upwardly mobile people, who want to nuture their own image of success and style and sophistication.

General Cadillac Info: When I was talking to them about Cadillac's direction being questioned by many on this site; about how the brand went from a focused rear-wheel drive brand, to what seems to be a mixed bag of rear-wheel drive and front-wheel drive vehicles, they brought up the fact that there are advantages of both drive-train set ups and how they will fit each of the vehicle's direction. He also brought up the SRX—saying that even though it has a FWD based platform— its handling and poise has not fallen off. Nick said that for years now Cadillac has drilled into the minds of buyers and fans that rear-wheel drive is king— that it offers the best of everything—and that front-wheel drive is for “lesser” brands.

Spin machine.
All this does is lead to Brand Bifurcation. Just the way it is now.

Sure, there are advantages to both. But it all depends on what Cadillac is trying to do? And then they state that Caddy themselves has "drilled into the minds of buyers and fans that rear-wheel drive is king— that it offers the best of everything—and that front-wheel drive is for “lesser” brands."

So, there will be a "good Cadillac," which will be RWD vehicles. And there will be a "lesser Cadillac," which will be for FWD vehicles.

Brand Bifurcation. No one know what is what.
Perfect.

 

And there will be a "lesser Cadillac," which will be for FWD vehicles.

Isn't Buick supposed to be "lesser Cadillac"?

 

Who's that doofus over on the left?

 

Bleh. I was hoping for something on the Aveo.

 

XTS:... He said that LaCrosse target is the ES350 type car, while the XTS will offer that type of comfort and quietness, but with a much more upscale type vehicle. I was about to rebut his answer, when he stopped me and said in a few months, we will see exactly what he was talking about. So does that mean an XTS type debut at Detroit 2010? It seems that this car could be in production faster than our next car.

Rebut with what?

 

Hold on now! The XTS sounds interesting. Let's give it some thought on what it can be instead on calling it a FWD based loser. What we do know that it will be offered in AWD. FWD based AWD variants aren't that bad if it done correctly, look at the Audi A8 vehicles. Audi A8 vehicles are proven that fwd based awd cars can be sporty and compete with the likes of Mercedes Benz and BMW and not be completely outclassed. According to MotorTrends June issue, there was a road test of the Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, and the Mercedes Benz S-Class. The BMW came in a far last while the Audi came in a close second to the Merc. Now if the Audi A8, being a fwd based awd can do this and retain prestige, why can't Cadillac?

Now, what do we know about GMs all-wheel drive system? Well I will guess that the XTS will probably use the Haldex system developed by Saab ( I think ). The Haldex XWD system can transmit 100 percent of available torque to either the front or rear wheels. (Sidenote: If I'm not mistaken even Land Rover has a deal with Haldex to be used in it's jeeps for V8 rwd applications.) Any awd car that can make a fwd car feel like a rwd vehicle sounds cool as heck to me, plus it may offer best of both worlds, pertaining to performance and snow safety.

So if you read between the lines, maybe he's saying that the Cadillac XTS, being offered to different driving styles could be... Base with just fwd offering the soft and cushy ride that traditional Cadillac and Buick owners know and love, plus this can help keep the commercial use needed for mass profits like limos and ect. The Awd version can be more tweeked if needed to be in between soft and cushy to more aggressive without being specifically sporty. Or since we know that the Haldex traction can push 100% of power to the rear, there can be room for a sport/performance version much like Audi S8.

I don't know much about cars I just read alot, and I think if the XTS is done correctly, it may be a bulleye target hit mechanically and stylisticly, but let's hope it can match the Lexus LS and BMW 7 Series and MB S-Class in the technical department!

 

Hold on now! ... Now if the Audi A8, being a fwd based awd can do this and retain prestige, why can't Cadillac?

So if you read between the lines, maybe he's saying that the Cadillac XTS, being offered to different driving styles could be... Base with just fwd offering the soft and cushy ride that traditional Cadillac and Buick owners know and love, plus this can help keep the commercial use needed for mass profits like limos and ect. The Awd version can be more tweeked if needed to be in between soft and cushy to more aggressive without being specifically sporty. Or since we know that the Haldex traction can push 100% of power to the rear, there can be room for a sport/performance version much like Audi S8.

We all know what is likely to happen here.

GM, seeing potential for sales, will dump these XTS's into fleets for commercial use. Despite having an "upscale, performance" version with AWD, it will NEVER carry the necessary prestige of a flagship vehicle if it has low-rent versions running around. You see a BMW 7-series, you know it has guts, no matter what. They need EVERY XTS to be loaded performance wise, and you know GM will eventually resort to decontenting and cheaper prices to move metal if its a FWD barge.

 

A very interesting article . . . thank you for posting it.

As a die-hard devotee of real American cars, I personally am greatly looking forward to the XTS. It has been a very long time since we had a new Cadillac "traditional luxury" car. The DTS is nothing more than a facelift of the last DeVille, introduced way back in late 1999, and which I never really liked. The styling just wasn't right. It just didn't work at all for me.

I am amazed at the comment that we will see it in "a few months". I thought the XTS was supposed to enter production in late 2011 and debut as a '13 model.

On the other hand, I also thought that DTS (and Lucerne) ceased production at the end of the '10 model year, leaving a gap of two models years before a new model arrives. Maybe the vehicle hinted at is a concept rather than a production model?

The ATS sunds like a very promising car, and one aimed at a very sizeable market segment. When will we see it, though?

Finally, the next Aveo sounds to be a major departure from the present horrible vehicle. Mr Lutz seems to be very confident that it will whup the competiotion. From zero to hero?

 

So th XTS mops up the DTS buyers, I'm sure that will be very profitable and makes good business sense. I mean the Escalade is not exactly a hard edged RWD performance sedan. Even Porsche has the Cayenne.

My only question is does CTS now sit on a standalone platform for ever? or do we find out lose Sigma in the next generation?

 

The XTS still sounds like it should slot above the Lacrosse and be sold as a Buick.

 

Here we go again, people using Audi as an excuse for a FWD Cadillac. Audi uses a longitudinal engine layout in their cars. This layout is not similar to what the XTS, Acura, Buick, Lexus ES, Lincoln and Ford - Transverse FWD/AWD. Audi uses this drivetrain layout because it is superior layout when using AWD; Quattro is an Audi hallmark. Subaru also uses this layout as it allows for a RWD bias along with better driving dynamics. Longitudinal powertrain layout is the same as RWD. Performance based vehicles that are designed from conception to be AWD also use this layout.

It has been said many times on this board by some of us that a Transverse FWD Cadillac hurts the Brand image of Cadillac. You can’t use a volume Transverse FWD Platform and expect to be competitive in this space. Epsilon is an excellent platform but it doesn’t have what is required to be competitive in the segment that Cadillac is aiming at. Magnetic shocks, AWD and the latest in technological do-dads are akin to putting lipstick on a pig. You can dress it up anyway you want but the DNA doesn’t lie.

It is a waste of resources for GM to use two brands to compete in the same space. The XTS, as envisioned, competes against Buick, Ford, Lincoln and Volvo; this is not the space Cadillac should compete in as it’s Buick’s turf- even GM states this. The only reason why they would want to do this is because it’s cheaper to use a volume transverse fwd platform than to use a Zeta-premium or Sigma II.

It’s either Buick or Cadillac not both if they want the two brands to be in the same space. What would Cadillac be then - a trim level of Buick? Remember the 50’s to 70’s in NA, Opel by Buick (now Buick by Opel), maybe now it should be Cadillac by Buick.

Mr. Twork should be embarrassed by what he said in the article. It is obfuscation at its best as anyone knowledgeable of the segment or industry (car people) would laugh at this.

Talking to Nick Twork, I asked him questions regarding this upcoming vehicle, really trying to find out what Cadillac wants with a car like this. He explained to me that the segment that the XTS will be going into is a very large and profitable market, offering a softer side of driving. He talked about how brands like BMW focus on a certain type of driving style, being aggressive and sporty or comfortable and quiet. He said that Cadillac does not feel it should be secluded to one segment or the other, offering all types of driving styles. The XTS would obviously be in the latter, offering a much softer yet still capable driving vehicle. I had asked him if that in fact is going to draw comparisons to the new Buick LaCrosse, and he quickly dismissed that. He said that LaCrosse target is the ES350 type car, while the XTS will offer that type of comfort and quietness, but with a much more upscale type vehicle. I was about to rebut his answer, when he stopped me and said in a few months, we will see exactly what he was talking about. So does that mean an XTS type debut at Detroit 2010? It seems that this car could be in production faster than our next car.

There is so much wrong with the above statement that it’s not even funny. It almost sets a record for contradictions in a paragraph. However, from a corporate communications person it’s to be expected.

 

With a soft-riding Caddy, they're heading right into Buick's waters.

SRX should have been Rendezvous. XTS should be Lucerne 2.0.

There is no reason for Cadillac to be an everything-to-everyone luxury brand. That works in the non-lux arena with Chevrolet, but they're fooling themselves if they think it'll work for Cadillac, especially with Buick thrown into the mix.

 

A word of advice to GM on the ATS if they are aiming at 3-series.

Come out of the box with the sedan, coupe and convertible. Keep the weight down around 3500 to 3600 pounds for the base model. A 4000 pound porker won't fit the handling bill. Drop the base model in right at 30K, where the CTS actually started at years ago. BMW offers a V8 in their M3, so do the same with a 425 HP LS3 in a V-series ATS. Make sure it handles well. Leave out the acres of cheap fake plasticky shiny wood. There will be plenty of time for me to be encased in wood when I'm in my coffin. I don't want it in my vehicle. Offer a brushed aluminum trim like 3-series does. Lastly if you are looking to lure in high-end performance Pontiac "free agents" like G8 GT/GXP, GTO, Bonneville/GP GXP owners, offer some true performance. Either a turboed V6 or the LS3 would make the thing move if it were around 3700 pounds or less. If you want this free agent back, make it worth my while.

 

Well said. The V could be a TT 3.6 with turbo 4 the base motivation. Make it nimble, with excellent road feel, good visibility, great utilization of space. RWD with AWD opional. Ironically, I owned a G/P RWD G body and 25 years of northern roads claimed her. I still have a Bonneville and came oh so close on a G8 but it was too big... I am watching this ATS...

 

Like it or not there are people, my 63 year old dad included, who feel like they "graduated" from Buick when they bought their first Caddy. My dad's DeVille is nearly eight years old and he is more than ready to replace it. He won't drive anything but GM and he'll be damned if he worked so hard all his life to settle for a Buick. It doesn't matter how fine LaCrosse is, he's done with Buick. He graduated. Just like his dad, and just like me in a few years, he traded up to Cadillac as a reward for his success. It might be old school thinking but there are millions out there just like him.

Provided it is done well I see no reason why a large sedan wouldn't fit into an overall brand strategy that puts strong emphasis on performance and captures that vaguely Teutonic feel they have been chasing after for so long, but doesn't sacrifice the sybaritic comforts that Cadillac is known for. FWD isn't bad, I'm not sure if the target market for this vehicle really cares one way or the other. People who cope with snow in winter would like an AWD option I know my dad would. There must be suspension technology in GM's tickle trunk that offers a butter smooth ride yet also controls lean to keep the door handles from being scratched during an aggressive turn.

I'm cautiously optimistic about ATS, so long as it doesn't zig. A true compact sport sedan that can credibly take on the baby Bimmer is long overdue. Assuming it actually gets developed I think it needs to be RWD though. Again, no zigging please.

Aveo I'm largely indifferent about. Chevy needs to have something that dealers can hold up against Focus though. If it can beat all the other little cars rolling off the boat so much the better.

Of course this is what GM's goal needs to be, consistently outdo the competition. If they can manage that it won't take long for the General's tarnished reputation to start to dazzle buyers again. We've all been waiting long enough to witness the metamorphosis.
-Elliott

 

Are we still expecting the new Aveo summer of 2010 as a 2011 model?

So is it correct to expect the MY 2011 new vehicles from Chevy/Buick to be:
Chevy Camaro convertible?
Buick Regal ~Summer
Chevy Aveo ~Summer
Chevy Cruze ~Fall
Buick *to-be-named Delta II* ~Fall
Chevy Volt - November

And the Chevy/Buicks for the MY 2012:
Chevy Spark
Chevy Aveo-based crossover
Chevy Malibu
Chevy Orlando/MPV
Chevy Colorado

 

One could easily argue that DB and BMW became bifurcated when they began producing SUVs. But if Cadillac takes a similar approach, it gets criticized? DOUBLE STANDARD!!!!
I see Cadillac's line-up as being profitable, the very essence they need coming out of bk. If they aren't profitable, they aren't in business. Period.
If they simply name the XTS DTS, then they have identified the group they are pursuing.
And who are these "blue hairs?" Maybe the patients I treat are too young to have blue hair, where do you find them? And don't say at Cadillac and Lincoln.
Is it the internet anonomity that makes so many of you overwhelmingly negative? Have you given any thought to seeking professional help?

 

One could easily argue that DB and BMW became bifurcated when they began producing SUVs. But if Cadillac takes a similar approach, it gets criticized? DOUBLE STANDARD!!!!
##
Is it the internet anonomity that makes so many of you overwhelmingly negative? Have you given any thought to seeking professional help?

lol, amusing. How many transverse FWD/AWD DB's and BMW's do you see running around?

BTW, on the weekend I drove a SRX as I'm in the market for a vehicle in this class - it should've been a Buick! I'll stick with my current choices Q5 and XC60. Although the XC60 has the same drivetrain layout it drives better. The SRX should be based on the new ATS Alpha platform and the Escalade Sigma II if they really want to competitive or even dare I say "best in class."