I'd rather have a Transit, EV or otherwise

 

About 12 years ago I rented such vans for home improvement projects. GM products were superior to Econoline.

Last summer I rented a GMC Savana from Uhaul. It was the same as in 2010. It is an outdated and non-competitive product. Ford's Transit is significantly better.

These vans have been built for 50 years. Upgrades can no longer hide their age. We have to move on.

 

The BrightDrop Zevo 600's range of 250 miles practically doubles the Ford E-Transit's top-range of 126 miles on low-roof versions. The Zevo 600 can be recharged at the rate of 170 miles an hour using a 120-kilowatt fast charger.

Ford has delivered some 2022 E-Transits and says the average commercial customer drives 74 miles per day. The 2023 model is now available for order, with cargo and cutaway chassis cabs available.

74 miles isn't too much, should be ideal for many users of the new trucks.

Some current ICE trucks seem top heavy with so many parts stored up high in the truck - low down batteries should keep the center of gravity down low.

 

My 2021 4.3 Express currently gets about 600 miles to a tank of gas and I drive it about 400-500 miles a day on average. They can kiss my rear end if they think I'm going to be sitting around for hours a day waiting for the batteries to recharge.

Planning on buying 1 last one in 24 or 25 MY and then they lose my business.

 

Ancient or not, there remains value in a proven utilitarian van that is essentially bulletproof in fleet operations.

 

Ancient or not, there remains value in a proven utilitarian van that is essentially bulletproof in fleet operations.

THIS.

 

Is the MSRP on the Brightdrop 600 out yet?

 

The 600 isn’t comparable to the cargo vans. Brightdrop haven’t released a model yet. I don’t even know if the 400 would be comparable either. More than likely something smaller.

 

Don't start the funeral plans too soon. They have made so many of these things over the decades, that they're going to continue to be common sights for probably at least another quarter century if not longer. Just think of the amount of cheap spare parts that are out there.

 

Just because GM starts making EV vans doesn't mean all the old ones vanish overnight. THey'll be around for quite a long time.

 

^^^In the northeast they drive them until the frames eventually rot out from road salt.

 

Ford has delivered some 2022 E-Transits and says the average commercial customer drives 74 miles per day. The 2023 model is now available for order, with cargo and cutaway chassis cabs available.

It really bugs me when comments like this are posted in articles about EVs. The "average" distance a vehicle travels is really irrelevant. That basically means that 50% of people need to driver farther than that. What they should be focused on is the distance that encompasses 90% - 95% of driving needs. That's the more important number.

And what does a new Chevy Express cost a fleet customer? $30k? $40k? What is a new EV van going to cost? $50k? $60k?

 

I would assume GM has its own data from Brightdrop that correlates with the Ford data.
Ultium is constantly being improved. A new version is supposed to be out 2024-25. With this van coming in 2026, who knows what's possible?

 

They held on to these for a long time but Guess we all Knew they'd eventually go away and get replaced by... EV ones. Life goes on.

 

I wonder if the battery pack will be a relatively easy proposition on these & Brighdrops - I can see fleets really liking that by not needing to replace entire vehicles.

 

EVs are still susceptible to the usual vehicle issues: accidents/damage, rust/rot, faulty electronics, etc, etc.
The way most modern vehicles are built around planned obsolescence, I don't expect them to lasting longer.

 

Am I the only one that doesn't understand having separate Brightdrop and now Chevy/GMC models?

I don't understand what the difference will be.

 

Good point Maybe someone will bail us out .

 

Wait. If I go buy a Xpress or Savannah now, in 2026 GM will give me a new lektrik van? Holy moly, I will take that deal.

 

Tell you what… I would love an Explorer Conversion van based on the standard wheelbase GMC Savana 2500 with a 6.6L small-block. This would be if money was no object and I had about a dozen other vehicles first.

These old vans in some ways are the best.

 

This ‘shooting for the average user’ is quite simply trimming the customer pool at both ends, and significantly. So strange that OEMs are ‘good’ with that.

 

Don't forget significant insurance bumps for BE.

 

Not the 'Launch Edition' vehicles, c'mon, man.

An extended-range Lightning is $20-22K more than a turbo-diesel at GM (keeping the trims & options similar) - I've detailed this before more than once. There is no price parity, and with lithium pricing currently exploding over the past year, it's disingenuous to claim 'prices are going to drop like crazy, and just wait until the next generation'. There's no factual support for that statement.

Dyson was never alive, Lordstown is dead, Aptera is dead, Bright is dead, Fisher is dead, ELMS just filed for bankruptcy, Canoo is terminally ill, Rivian is hemmoraging cash by the second despite jacking pricing by circa 12%, Tesla is packing the profit line with credit sales.... the cost pressure is ALL upward, and no quantity of rosy, gushing press releases can erase the current trajectory. You've GOT to be realistic RE the BE landscape.

 

The Lightning is a different animal, built on a modified chassis using off the shelf batteries. It has none of the advanced wireless tech that brings down the cost of Ultium. Plus, we know Ford was late to the game with BEV, anyone want to make a bet that Ford's priority was being "first" at all costs and to steal GM's thunder? I'll put money on it that those decisions are showing up in their pricing with a greater impact than the actual increase in raw material pricing.

Startups not being profitable... That is not surprising, nor would I strongly correlate a startups performance to a mainstream manufacturer like GM.

Nor do I think these vans will be on gen 1 Ultium, I suspect they will be on gen 2.

GM bet the farm on BEV, I very much doubt they intend to have a future with all their vehicles costing $20k more than the ICE equivalent.

I am being realistic based on what I've read. I have an article from GM stating their costs will come way down with gen 2 Ultium, they are a publicly traded company and can't make press releases like that with made up data. I will rely on that to be more factual than extrapolations based on what is on the market today.

 

delete

 

^ There it is.

Cliff Notes : 'We have no Earthly idea, but wouldn't this be nice!'

- - - - -
Musk has had 'talks' with the SEC, not because the cybertrucklette didn't appear in 2019 like 'he said', but because he was using his platform to make statements that potentially influenced stock pricing.
Apples and tubas.

 

The room always goes quiet once you mention electricity rates have already doubled in one year and ever increasing. I'm now at just shy of .22 per kWh. At that price I'll just keep buying gas and ENJOY my V8's.

 

The room always goes quiet once you mention electricity rates have already doubled in one year and ever increasing.

+1
Definitely. There's even more silence from small business owners, like unkillsam and the founder of the elevator repair business I work for, who give serious thought to real world total cost of ownership and the opportunity costs associated with battery electric commercial vans and trucks (and not just take OEM press releases at their word).

 

I do not see contractors (I'm one) switching en-mass to EV vehicles.
Most are weighed down with hundreds or thousands of lbs of gear, 1. which has been demonstrated to greatly reduce range, and 2. Silverado EV payload is only 1200 lbs, which puts a major limit on doing commercial work. Then there's the pricing / insurance biting into the bottom line.

 

I do not see contractors (I'm one) switching en-mass to EV vehicles.
Most are weighed down with hundreds or thousands of lbs of gear, 1. which has been demonstrated to greatly reduce range, and 2. Silverado EV payload is only 1200 lbs, which puts a major limit on doing commercial work. Then there's the pricing / insurance biting into the bottom line.

The Silverado EV HD version was listing 9500 lbs, I believe.

 

It seems like this is an instance of GM telling the customers what they will get instead of listening to what customers want.

 

No, the maximum load is not 9500 lbs. CaptainDan is conflating maximum towing capacity with maximum payload or maximum hauling capacity. The maximum towing capacity of the Chevrolet Silverado EV is 10,000 lbs, up from the previously announced 8,000 lbs. That said, the Silverado EV WT is supposed to have a maximum towing capacity of 20,000 lbs. The Ford F150 Lightning with standard battery is rated at 7,700 lbs, but its rating goes up to 10,000 lbs with the extended range battery.

Understand that 10,000 lbs are 5 tons. No light duty truck has a payload that high. If you want a 5-ton truck, then you want a medium duty box van, dump truck or some such. In the light duty space, manufacturers no longer promote these trucks by payload. It is all about towing capacity. If you use a trailer to do all of your hauling, then you never scratch or dent your bed.

 

.

 

.

 

.

 

It's just bizarre to even be discussing weights in the circa 10K lb range in the same sentences as 'payload'. A '22 Silverado 3500 payload max is 4572.

Thanks 09W for the clarification. '22 Express/Savana payload max is 4,280 lbs (1,941 kg).