[NHRATA01]

I think your advice regarding checking oil level frequently is outdated. BMW doesn't even put in an oil dipstick. The better engines in todays world simply don't consume oil between changes.

BMW's engines typically have a higher crank capacity too, up around 8 quarts or more. Of synthetic. So your tradeoff for no dipstick (and a level sensor - which can fail) is the $100 oil changes.

Every engine consumes some amount of oil, its virtually inescapably based on how an ICE works. Checking the oil level every 1k is good practice. It used to be recommended for the oil to be checked every fill-up!

 

[JBsZ06]

BMW got rid of the oil dip stick because its owners were too snooty to check the oil..

Years back BMW had so many engine failures it was widespread when the six cylinder n/a M3 engine produced 333 hp.....

The idea of checking the oil for many americans is so foreign that BMW got rid of the dipstick entirely and now depends on the oil level monitor....

In my opinion all manufacturers especially with those using synethic oil extended intervals should now go to oil level monitoring systems...

Everyone should learn from BMW's trial and error issues they had years back..

Otherwise owners need to be responsible for manually checking their oil levels at reasonable intervals.

Fwiw..new engines especially high performance, high efficiency engines of today need to have their oil levels maintained.

Low friction rings are also of a contributing factor to oil usage etc... so don't think that todays engines don't use oil because the engines of today definitely still consume oil...especially with extended synthic (SP) oil intervals ..

 

[Extreme4x4]

That is bunk. Maybe the vehicles you have exposed yourself to, use oil. However, the vast majority don't.

In 25 years of new vehicle purchases, the only one I had that used any perceptible amount of oil between 3000 mile changes, was my 1991 Mustang GT.................. and that was when it had 105K miles on it. The rest, none, nada, zip, zero. This includes my vehicles that I have towed with.

 

[JBsZ06]

That is bunk. Maybe the vehicles you have exposed yourself to, use oil. However, the vast majority don't.

In 25 years of new vehicle purchases, the only one I had that used any perceptible amount of oil between 3000 mile changes, was my 1991 Mustang GT.................. and that was when it had 105K miles on it. The rest, none, nada, zip, zero. This includes my vehicles that I have towed with.

Common sense says check the oil every month...every 1000 or 2000 miles...

If a person does NOT want to check the oil level between oil changes that can with synthics (SP) range upwards of 10 thousand miles between oil changes....then that person should NOT WHINE WHEN their engine breaks....

Common sense calls for oil levels to be properly monitored. Check the owners manual for directions..

Do what you see fit but if people don't check their oil levels regularly(every 1000 or 2000 miles) ....then its their fault if their engines blow and not the cars.

 

[Neanderthal]

BMW got rid of the oil dip stick because its owners were too snooty to check the oil..

Years back BMW had so many engine failures it was widespread when the six cylinder n/a M3 engine produced 333 hp.....

The idea of checking the oil for many americans is so foreign that BMW got rid of the dipstick entirely and now depends on the oil level monitor....

In my opinion all manufacturers especially with those using synethic oil extended intervals should now go to oil level monitoring systems...

Everyone should learn from BMW's trial and error issues they had years back..

Otherwise owners need to be responsible for manually checking their oil levels at reasonable intervals.

Fwiw..new engines especially high performance, high efficiency engines of today need to have their oil levels maintained.

Low friction rings are also of a contributing factor to oil usage etc... so don't think that todays engines don't use oil because the engines of today definitely still consume oil...especially with extended synthic (SP) oil intervals ..

I guess you could say BMW got rid of the dipstick because so many drivers already were dipsticks, it would've been redundant.

Thinking back to fuel-ups over the past few years, I don't recall seeing a single hood up, other than mine, checking the oil.

Not like it's difficult, it takes maybe a whole minute.

 

[Barry Badrinath]

Too bad I went 2 quarts down in less than 700 miles driven in one month. Engine has been looked at and tinkered with twice since. So far, I am only down 1/2 quart since the last change. I have not heard much lately on the 2011's, but who knows.

 

[Extreme4x4]

Frankly, I find oil consumption in new vehicles, to be very disturbing.

Mix lax changing periods with lazy buyers, and it is just a recipe for disaster.

BTW, we check our oil before any long trip/camping trip/trip to the Valley. Always have, and always will. Neither my '86 Bronco II, my '94 Lightning, my '93 Explorer, my '01 Lightning, my '03 Tribute, or my '08 SD have ever used any oil at all, between changes.................. and that is with synthetic only, that I always start at 10K miles. Like I said earlier, my '91 Mustang only did so when it got to 105K miles, and this wasn't unusual in the 5.0's as the casting molds were getting rather worn by then. All of said vehicles were purchased new.

 

[PanteraFTW]

My vehicles don't consume that much oil but I do check just because it's a habit.

 

[vcs2600]

I guess you could say BMW got rid of the dipstick because so many drivers already were dipsticks, it would've been redundant.

Thinking back to fuel-ups over the past few years, I don't recall seeing a single hood up, other than mine, checking the oil.

Not like it's difficult, it takes maybe a whole minute.

A lot of cars come with a windshield wiper fluid monitor. Seems rather silly that you can be automatically reminded about your wiper fluid, but have to manually check the oil.

I have to admit I was confused. I figured GM's oil life monitor was also an oil level monitor. Guess not.

 

[2002 Caddy]

My suggestion is to check the oil level every thousand miles...and you'll be fine..

Don't listen to all the internet chatter on this issue...Most of its bullsh t.

The v6 variable valve timing parameters were set to tight....with regards to the timing chain stretch issue so they modified the parameters in the pcm.. Most importantly owner error in this age of do nothing...know nothings....who never check their oil between oil changes...


years ago....people used to just change their oil every 3k miles so they wouldn't be that low....but with synethic (SP) oil change intervals a few were running their engines at too low an oil level...

Hence the engine damage.. ..

of course in our society where nothing is ever anyones fault........not even if they never checked their oil level in 10k miles.. thats how this story grew....

BMW now has oil level sensors in its engines and partly offers free maintaince to itc consumers to prevent engine problems...BEcause its jack @sss customer base is too "superior " to check the engine oil level...

Make sure your vehicle has the correct oil level and 99.9 percent of the time your GM V6 engine will outlast the rest of the car..

The problem with that is we have seen lots of reports of these chains failing BEFORE the first oil change.. we had members here report problems with less than 4000 miles on the clock... This is a problem with the chains, sprockets and followers.. it has little to do with the oil. It is a fact that GM has changed the design of the chains, sprockets and followers at least 4 times.

The 3.6L engines burning oil and eating up timing chains are two very different and separate problems.

 

[JBsZ06]

I'd like to see your data and where you are getting your information.

thanks in advance.

 

[2002 Caddy]

I'd like to see your data and where you are getting your information.

thanks in advance.

This very thread is full of customers and factory certified GM technicians who have posted that very low mileage cars have had to have these chains, sprockets and followers replaced. Sure, if these were all failing at 100,000 mile mark I would support that this might be a oil or a maintenance problem. But you have to admit that when these are failing at 4,000 miles, 10,000 mile, 12,000 miles something else is at play. And this is one thread of many on this forum looking for help with this problem.

And as for the POV that is OK to have a brand new engine burn several quarts of oil between oil changes, to most car buyers that is NOT acceptable ... I have a nearly 30 year old Camaro with a Small block Chevy that has over 300,000 miles on it that burns almost no oil(all driven hard and put away wet). I can not say the same about my 10 year old Caddy with just over 1/3 of the millage.

 

[goochman]

If it makes everonye feel better a buddy of mine has an Acura (forgot which engine in it - I think one of the 4 cylinders) - he indicated that there is not enough shiedling for the timing chains on them and basically if you dont change you oil or make sure its at almost filled level the chains fail due to being baked and the engines are toast. The chains basically starve for oil or it gets caked on due to heat.

 

[Barry Badrinath]

The 3.6L engines burning oil and eating up timing chains are two very different and separate problems.

Winner.

 

[69nova]

Neandertal's correct...how many people does one see, at the gas station, checking oil? In fact, a few years ago while standing in line awaiting my turn to pay the station attendee, I spied a woman buying 3 quarts of trans fluid. I said to her "you don't want that" (down 3 quarts of tranny fluid and that car would never have rolled out of her driveway). She looked at me and thanked me. and I believe this is typical of the climate.
There is a perception brought on by the car mfrs and the oil producers. The car mfrs boast longetivity of every feature and the oil producers (synthetics especially) boast longer spans between oil changes. Nobody sits in front of a vehicle buyer and says "we want you check your oil every 1,000 miles or every fillup or whatever. I don't care if it is written on page 234 in the owner's manual-the first salesperson that says that will lose that sale. Perception is everything and that perception is that all I do is wash the car and get the routine checks when needed.
Interesting about the VVT being significantly affected by timing chain wear (also understandable). My 89 Caravan's 3L used 1 qt per 1,000 miles and the motor still ran well at 195,000 miles. But, it was a simple motor and used a belt that needed scheduled changing at 100,000 miles.I do remember the old method of checking timing chains in the small blocks-accelerating and decelerating and listening for backfiring. My buddy's 69 Camaro's 350ci had this about a week before the chain broke (about 150,000 miles).

 

[JBsZ06]

I find it unfortunate that you are unable to offer hard data or facts to back up your statements but thanks for responding as your comments are still very insightful.

The true fact of the matter is checking the oil levels at reasonable intervals between extended synethic oil changes is a responsible and necessary component of vehicle ownership.

BMW moved to a oil level monitoring because it had gained a reputation of self destructive inline six motors because its ownership body were too snooty or too lazy or just didn't have time... to check the oil levels manually between oil changes ....Thats why they put in the monitor as the monitor went off....if the consumer didn't add oil...and the engine failed..the consumer was responsible..


At this time....as discussed...the timing change stretch was minimal...yet it did set off the Pooo8 code so the parameters were retuned, the VVT continued to work appropriately , the city driving style oil life monitor was refined to better reflect usuage and wear and it shortened the time between oil change intervals. Added benefit it gets the "lazy" people who don't want to take the minute it takes to check the oil in for an oil change sooner.(before the engine runs too low on oil)

Again..the fact is.....and its sad...many consumers think they are too busy to check the oil levels in their expensive high tech tech engines..every 1000 or 2000 miles.

Its an error in judgement by the owner and it has consequences .....that are quite destructive..

If your older cars didn't use oil....thats good. Yet responsible ownership of vehicles for proper maintaince includes checking the oil levels every 1000 or 2000 miles between extended oil change intervals.

This very thread is full of customers and factory certified GM technicians who have posted that very low mileage cars have had to have these chains, sprockets and followers replaced. Sure, if these were all failing at 100,000 mile mark I would support that this might be a oil or a maintenance problem. But you have to admit that when these are failing at 4,000 miles, 10,000 mile, 12,000 miles something else is at play. And this is one thread of many on this forum looking for help with this problem.

And as for the POV that is OK to have a brand new engine burn several quarts of oil between oil changes, to most car buyers that is NOT acceptable ... I have a nearly 30 year old Camaro with a Small block Chevy that has over 300,000 miles on it that burns almost no oil(all driven hard and put away wet). I can not say the same about my 10 year old Caddy with just over 1/3 of the millage.

 

[Lowboy]

I do remember the old method of checking timing chains in the small blocks-accelerating and decelerating and listening for backfiring.

This method brings to light an up stream exhaust leak.
By doing so you super enrich the fuel/air mixture of a carbureted engine by dumping extra fuel in via the accelerator pump and imediately restrict air by declerating which inturn increases manifold vacuum pulling more fuel from the idle circuit. Thus you have unburnt fuel in the exhaust and any leak at the exhaust manifolds or pipes will draw in fresh air and allow the the unburnt fuel to combust/back fire in the mufflers. We used to do this on I6s with cracked manifolds to the point of blowing the muffler clean off and it wasn't from strecthed timing chains.

 

[andretti]

The 3.6L engines burning oil and eating up timing chains are two very different and separate problems.

This is absolutely correct! I can attest to the timing chain stretch (P0008) issue in my brother's 2011 Traverse where he religiously changes oil at 3000 miles regardless of what the OLM says. My father was a firm believer in 3000 mile oil changes as a cheap way to get long life from an engine.
In his case there was no oil shortage issue and no long duration changes and the chains still stretched by 21,000 miles

 

[JBsZ06]

Did your brother in law have the p0008 code? or did he have timing chain failure and have it replaced.?

Early on...the thinking was the timing chain needed replacement with P0008 code and that simply wasn't the case with further research..

The reprograming became the standard practice because the parameters of the VVT pcm programing just needed to be expanded for proper running....of the VVT system.

Not to negate the value of this yet my request stands...how many V6 engines produced and how many failures?

Huge difference between a P0008 code requiring a reprogram vs. blown engines due to chain failure.

I look forward to the data as fact and not hearsay.(SP)

I think its reasonable to request facts rather than internet chatter.

 

[Neanderthal]

Do you really think that on a very new Camaro that it should potentially need to add oil every 1000 miles? I haven't had a personal vehicle that used measurable oil between changes since the 2000 Impala I had in college. The Impala had almost 100,000 miles, but a new Camaro...?? Some of the Silverado 5.3's we have at work will use oil between changes but they are running 2500# trailers much of the time. Apparently (according to the dealer) when you work the 5.3 hard it can consume oil (1 QT/2000 miles).

I think the, or a, point here is that there's little rationale behind an argument to NOT check your oil.

1.) It takes a minute. Maybe four or five if you drop the hood on your fingers.

2.)Other motorists will think you have some clue about all
that stuff under the hood, even though some folks will need the owner's manual to locate the dipstick, not to mention what to do once they've discovered it.

3.) It will give the Facebook/Twitter etc.-obsessed something else to brag about, yak perpetually, or post on Yew Toob: "Oh look, I'm a mechanic!"

4.) It could prevent a cata$trophic event. Not all of us are brain surgeons who can frequently afford a new engine because we ran the old one out of oil.

5.) It helps to occasionally put your mitts on something besides a computer keyboard or a smart phone--doing so can help balance your yin and yang, thus keeping the Universe in better order.

I do personally believe any vehicle should have its oil level checked every 1000 miles...

If you want to suggest every 2000 miles..? I could go along with that..

The idea is people are NOT checking the oil level in their cars on a regular basis and with synethic (SP) oil its a problem because many consumers....just don't take the time with self service gas stations or even full service gas stations...to check the oil and with the longer oil change intervals that can approach 10k miles...IT CAN CAUSE CATASTRPHIC (sp) ENGINE FAILURE!

Hence the change in the city driving oil life monitoring shift in GM's PCM.. ..

Get the people in for an oil change before the car runs too low a level of oil because the numbnuts are too stupid to realize its common sense to check the oil..

Ask a few of your friends(not into cars) how often they check their cars engine oil level? LOL Its almost funny the looks on their faces..

The maintenance-free world, combined with people being soooo busy playing with their keyboards that they don't have time to make eye contact or speak to other **** sapiens, has surely contributed to the lack of care and feeding of your pet car.

Self-service gas stations, where the friendly alert attendant fills your tank, cleans your windshield, checks your oil and occasionally notices something like, for instance, your radiator overflow is down to the scum at the bottom, possibly giving you a free glass or bar of soap as part of the deal...their virtual extinction has not helped. I believe Oregon still legally requires the pump jockey to do at least the fueling part of that routine.

This is not an intelligence issue. Your brain surgeon story shows that. Maybe some smart (no pun intended) maker will start a public service campaign for minimal maintenance checks: Take two minutes, maybe save two thousand bucks.

Nah!