I'm especially curious as to the looks and quality of the next G-6.

 

"All of these cars will be radically different from each other but they will all use common engineering solutions," Bob Lutz told us at Geneva. "They're going to be so different in aesthetics and driving characteristics, so it's not one car dressed up in different ways.

Didn't they say this about the G5? And the Torrent? I do have to say that the current Epsilons are nicely differentiated, so I'm not too concerned.

What DOES worry me, though, is that the G6 is apparently still a go on Epsilon... meaning no RWD G6 next time around. One again poor Pontiac will be sandwiched between the Malibu, Aura, and 9-3.

 

What DOES worry me, though, is that the G6 is apparently still a go on Epsilon... meaning no RWD G6 next time around. One again poor Pontiac will be sandwiched between the Malibu, Aura, and 9-3.

unless the upcoming RWD Alpha could be a new model like a G7 for example

 

We know the BLS won't be on Epsilon, and I doubt the next G6 will be. Why? Well, mostly because what they listed was every car currently on Epsilon, but we know all those won't be on Epsilon next go around -- Cadillac, for one.

Besides, isn't Epsilon II huge, size wise nearly as big Zeta? So putting the next G6 on a platform nearly as large as the G8 is silly.

And we know Alpha has to come out and be shared amongst a few models, thus a Pontiac/Holden, Cadillac, and some others will be in the mix.

As to whether the cars will be truly differentiated, I'll hold full judgement until I see them. However, I do think that Lutz implied that Zeta and Lambda were the first ones that allowed vehicles that looked substantially different. Although the Outlook and the Acadia are close, the Acadia and Enclave aren't remotely similar in shape. So GM may have finally figured this thing out.

We'll know for sure when we see the new Insignia and the new Lacrosse. Those should debut later this year and then we'll know how similar/dissimilar they look on Epsilon II.

 

We know the BLS won't be on Epsilon, and I doubt the next G6 will be. Why? Well, mostly because what they listed was every car currently on Epsilon, but we know all those won't be on Epsilon next go around -- Cadillac, for one.

Besides, isn't Epsilon II huge, size wise nearly as big Zeta? So putting the next G6 on a platform nearly as large as the G8 is silly.

And we know Alpha has to come out and be shared amongst a few models, thus a Pontiac/Holden, Cadillac, and some others will be in the mix.

As to whether the cars will be truly differentiated, I'll hold full judgement until I see them. However, I do think that Lutz implied that Zeta and Lambda were the first ones that allowed vehicles that looked substantially different. Although the Outlook and the Acadia are close, the Acadia and Enclave aren't remotely similar in shape. So GM may have finally figured this thing out.

We'll know for sure when we see the new Insignia and the new Lacrosse. Those should debut later this year and then we'll know how similar/dissimilar they look on Epsilon II.

The G6 and BLS need to be RWD on the Alpha which I think Lutz said would be about the size of the 3-series which the Torana concept was except for the 112" WB.

Besides Buick will have a FWD Invicta/LaCrosse (whatever they call it) - even though Pontiac should be with Saturn then there woul be the Aura to fill the FWD midsize market and SAAB has the 9-3 and 9-5 so no need for a FWD Cadillac in the same dealership.

GM needs to stop stepping all over itself in the same dealerships, and the money saved could go to cars for different markets like a RWD G6 and BLS.
A RWD BLS allows GM to move the CTS upmarket over the next few years and definately for the next gen. and Pontiac needs a mid-size model and it should be RWD/AWD.

 

I wonder how long it will truely be before the Aura is on Epi2?

 

The Aura is going E2 for 2010 model-year.

 

The LaCrosse is the first in NAmerica to get E2 in 2009 as a 2010 model.

The Aura will be the second in 2010, and the Malibu the 3rd. That puts the new Malibu out in the 2011 time frame as a 2012 model.

A 4 year model cycle very impressive for Chevy.

Let's hope they do the LaCrosse right and offer only one trim level: fully loaded. The only option it should have is a Nav.

I'd like to see DI 4 cylinders with 200ish horsepower and 30 mpg for the Saturn and Chevy....as well as a five speed manual.

The G6 and new smaller Cadillac are rear wheel drive (Alpha). GM will probably cheap out and put the G6 on a front drive chassis.

 

The LaCrosse is the first in NAmerica to get E2 in 2009 as a 2010 model.

The Aura will be the second in 2010, and the Malibu the 3rd. That puts the new Malibu out in the 2011 time frame as a 2012 model.

A 4 year model cycle very impressive for Chevy.

Let's hope they do the LaCrosse right and offer only one trim level: fully loaded. The only option it should have is a Nav.

I'd like to see DI 4 cylinders with 200ish horsepower and 30 mpg for the Saturn and Chevy....as well as a five speed manual.

Four years is fairly impressive, but in this case, GM is just trying to sync all of its midsized sedans onto a common architectures with common parts, as to maximize cost savings.

Taurus is a good example of this at Ford. Next year, it's moving to the MKS platform, and then 3 years after that, it's going RWD to sync all of Ford's large sedans worldwide. Seems like a fast turnaround, but it's needed as to share parts.

 

I wonder if they still plan duble A arms for the more premium SAAB EP-2 versions. And Struts for the lower CHEVY/SATURN ect versions. And this new EP-2 will also have AWD-XWD for the SAAB models at least as an opt.

 

I wonder if they still plan duble A arms for the more premium SAAB EP-2 versions. And Struts for the lower CHEVY/SATURN ect versions.

I really think that would be a waste of resources for minimal, if any, value to the customer.

 

"All of these cars will be radically different from each other but they will all use common engineering solutions," Bob Lutz told us at Geneva. "They're going to be so different in aesthetics and driving characteristics, so it's not one car dressed up in different ways. The exception is 'lookshares' [Saturn/Opel/Vauxhall] - we save one division's worth of engineering and since they're on different continents nobody ever says 'Gee, why does my Saturn look like an Opel.

This makes perfect sense to me, and the article starts to explain how that will be achieved with suspensions, for example. Quite refreshing when GM raises the bar for itself.

Ah, new automotive terminology: lookshare. I wonder if it will catch on? I'll try using it, cuz it captures a different flavor than badge engineering, which technically it still is, though the geographic separation of the lookshares to me makes the practice quite logical.

 

The Buick Invicta Concept will be shown at the Beijing Auto Show on April 19th (only 12 days away), if not unveiled before then in spy shots. The Invicta is essentially the LaCrosse, perhaps with a show car feature or two.

 

If you want a RWD Pontiac, go buy one of the 3 or 4 models in the G8 "family" then....

It's getting a little nonsensical everyone thinking that EVERY Pontiac has to be RWD. The current G6 is a great FWD'er. Let it stay there for NorthEast drivers.

I personally think that if everyone got their wish and Pontiac went solely RWD, it should incorporate AWD options as well.

 

If you want a RWD Pontiac, go buy one of the 3 or 4 models in the G8 "family" then....

It's getting a little nonsensical everyone thinking that EVERY Pontiac has to be RWD. The current G6 is a great FWD'er. Let it stay there for NorthEast drivers.

I personally think that if everyone got their wish and Pontiac went solely RWD, it should incorporate AWD options as well.

AWD-yes. that's the key to the G6 staying on EP. It should be on the SWB EP if the normal size of EP2 is the size of Zeta.

 

ooo cant wait to see the new cars here,, if we think the current ones are good .. these have to be much much better... which is great... GM consistently building great cars that are not the Corvette... who would have thought

 

I assume that there will be two different wheelbase lengths? Which ones get which wheelbase?

 

"All of these cars will be radically different from each other but they will all use common engineering solutions," Bob Lutz told us at Geneva. "They're going to be so different in aesthetics and driving characteristics, so it's not one car dressed up in different ways.

UH-HUH.
I will believe when I see it Mr. Lutz. I don't want to see a rehashed Vectra/Insignia as a 9-3/9-5.
But some part of me just doesn't believe it.

 

There will be an unusually short debut to launch time for the LaCrosse, we're going to be getting it pretty fast. There's some good stuff in here. Certainly the new EPII Cars will be nothing like each other. I'm glad GM is able to save costs by sharing platforms while putting the money saved where it counts like interiors, etc. EPII is awesome!

 

if Pontiac wants to survive, they a need a car with a big engine, a six speed tranny and all wheel drive like the WRX STi.

 

G6 desperately needs a redesign...
And as long as they do as good as they did with the Lambdas, the Epsilon IIs should be very well differentiated.

 

Good write up - but as others have mentioned - there seems to be a few mis-informed details as it regards to the BLS and the G6. I would suspect that the G6 would be a RWD product --- but this is currently under review according to some sources. If CAFE is as big of a deal as they predict, I'd image that it may stay FWD based and offer AWD.

However, they may continue with a FWD G6 and (as someone mentioned) offer a RWD G7 as a companion car. Still not certain and the RWD Alpha was supposedly NOT going to go forward with a Pontiac product and only for a Holden/Opel/Caddy product.

Same story for the G6 - it's supposed to be RWD -- but once again they say FWD/AWD.

 

Pontiac should differeniate it's FWD/RWD cars by whether it's an even or odd number. BMW might get pissy but so be it.

 

Can't wait til July 22 to see what the next Aura..or Insignia...will look like.

BTW, what is the porjected date/year for the next gen. Aura for the US??

 

TTAC said in their podcast that a GM exec (mentioned by name but I forget) confirmed that the plans to produce the G8 in NA is off likely due to CAFE. Worst case scenario is that the G8 is a one-generation product ending around 2013. As noted above, Alpha isn't confirmed for Pontiac either.

While a range of G5 and G6 front wheel drive may make sense for dealers, it makes not much sense for GM considering the cannibalization of Chevrolet, Pontiac and Saturn sales. Without distinctive RWD Pontiac products, GM should increase the number of products offered under the Buick brand and fade Pontiac away within the combined P-B-G showrooms. Buick-GMC makes a nice mid-luxury combo with Saturn assuming that VW/Mazda character.

 

Insignia is the first car on GM's new global Epsilon platform, which provides replacements for the Chevy Malibu and Pontiac G6, Saab's 9-3 and 9-5, Cadillac BLS sedan/BLT wagon in Europe, a Korean-built car sold as a Suzuki, a Holden in Australia and the next-generation Buick LaCrosse.

To me this basically means:
1. Alpha is dead
2. The Kizashiki3 concept is the Daewoo version of Insignia, to be sold as Suzuki and as Holden
3. It might or might not become the Pontiac G6

 

2. The Kizashiki3 concept is the Daewoo version of Insignia, to be sold as Suzuki

The Kizashiki3 concept is on Suzuki platform.

The Daewoo Tosca/Chevrolet Epica/Holden Epica and the next Chevrolet Malibu will all have the same interior and exterior design and will be on Epsilon II.

 

I dont understand why somthing would sold as a holden/opel/caddy/deawoo but not pontiac? if it came over as a saturn from opel, that would almost be a slap in the face of pontiac....

 

lets see the differentiation. Drive a 07 Malibu and G6...tell me the difference.

Driving an Aura and 08 Bu, tell me the hugely noticeable difference.

CobaltSS

 

I have never driven a G6, but I have driven a new Bu and a Aura. And they drive like different cars! If you didnt know any better you wouldnt be able to tell they are the same platform. And honestly, I MUCH perfer the Aura! But thats just my preference. I say a white Aura today and thought to myself how cool of a car it was.

(I take that back, I drove a G6 when they first came out and my friend had one as a demo)

 

I'm going to echo the sentiments of a few other posters here in saying that the next G6 should be RWD.......

You have Chevrolet, Buick, Saturn and Saab that provide a myriad of FWD vehicles in all different flavors, including 'sporty'......the longer FWD remains at Pontiac, the longer the brand will stay diluted.

 

Well before the new Lacrosse comes here, I think the MCE Lucerne should come here first, like this fall with the DI 3.6, the 6 speed and interior refinements as promised. This fall we should also see interior refinements to the G6 and a revised interior in the STS (ala chinese SLS) which is probably a pipedream just like the Nav screens. I wonder the DI 3.6 will make its way to the Epsilons in the fall.

Come on GM !!!!

 

GM needs to buy up the rest of Daewoo and kick Suzuki out of this equation. I hope you are wrong Bravada and t-rex.

 

GM owns a controlling interest in Daewoo.