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Chevy 130R vs. 140S: One of These Cars is a No Brainer

8.4K views 70 replies 50 participants last post by  BlueMontreal  
#1 ·
http://blogs.motortrend.com/chevy-130r-vs-140s-one-of-these-cars-is-a-no-brainer-20701.html

So Chevy wants the people to decide: Which of its 2012 Detroit auto show concepts — Code 130R or Tru 140S — should be turned into a production model? Dumb question, really, because only one of these Chevys is a no-brainer. And that’s the 130R.

Why? Because Honda could build the 140S. So could Ford and Mazda and Peugeot and Nissan and Chrysler and Volkswagen and Renault. In fact, any automaker with a C-segment front drive platform in its product portfolio — and that’s just about all of them — could swiftly develop a swoopy two-door like the 140S. But there aren’t very many who could build an affordable sporty rear-drive coupe like the 130R. They simply don’t have the hardware.

Subaru and Toyota have the new BRZ/FT-86 twins, and Hyundai has the Genesis Coupe. But that’s about it. The 130R could therefore make a big splash in a small gene pool, while the 140S could easily be lost in a swarm of similar cab-forward front-drive coupes. More importantly, 130R represents an opportunity for Chevy to connect with a demographic that hasn’t seen it as being cool, interesting, or relevant for… oh… 40 years or so – young enthusiast drivers.

The 130R is a 21st century Nissan 200SX, Datsun P510, BMW 2002ti. It’s an icon waiting to happen.

Though coy on the detail, GM insiders admit the 130R is designed to roll on the new Alpha rear drive architecture that underpins Cadillac’s 3-series fighter, the ATS. The 109.3in wheelbase is identical with that of the ATS; another giveaway is the inboard placement of the 130R’s dual pipes, which exactly mimics that of the ATS. The lightweight Alpha hardware includes MacPharson struts up front, a five link rear axle, and ZF electric power steering.

Proposed engine for the car is a 150hp, direct injection version of GM’s 1.4-liter turbo four, driving through either a GM six-speed automatic, or the new Tremec six-speed manual developed for the ATS. That powertrain would allow the 130R to achieve two things: 1) get up to 40 mpg on the highway; and 2) sell for a base price in the low $20,000 range.

Should the 130R make production, though, Chevy could also offer a premium performance version fitted with the new 270 hp 2.0-liter turbo four that’s just debuted in the new ATS. The engine basically bolts right in, and the both transmissions — plus the rear axle and the Brembo brakes from the FE3-spec ATS — are rated to handle the extra grunt. Logic suggests a super-130R could be pitched as a high-performance alternative to a V-6 Camaro, with a base price in the $25,000 to $28,000 range.

Designed by Brit Joe Baker in GM’s Advanced Studio in North Hollywood, the 130R — like the 140S, which was also design by a Brit, Nicholas David — is the product of a unique program set up to find out what younger buyers wanted from a Chevy. The designers surveyed students at Pepperdine University and UCLA, and at several high schools on LA’s west side, and listened to what they had to say about the cars they wanted to drive before they even drew a single line. “They knew Chevy was trucks,” says Frank Saucedo, director of GM Advanced Design of the 14 to 20 year olds they GM design teams talked to. “They were surprised to learn that Corvette was also a Chevy.” Among the key takeouts: They wanted a four-seater. “They’re very connected through social media,” says Saucedo, “and when they travel, they like to travel with their friends.”

This innovative approach to vehicle design is one reason why neither of the two concepts had an interior. Four interiors have been developed, and Saucedo’s team plans to take each of them back to the LA student groups for them to review and choose. “It’s like we’re crowd-sourcing the interiors,” Saucedo says.

Meanwhile, early clinics of the 130R and 140S, whose edgy design cues will influence the next-gen Cruze, one GM insider revealed, have highlighted a crucial difference between the two. People in their mid-30s and older prefer the swoopy front-drive 140S, while those under 35 prefer the distinctive rear-drive 130R. Just one more reason why choosing not to build it would be one of the dumbest decisions GM could make this decade.
 
#2 ·
http://blogs.motortrend.com/chevy-130r-vs-140s-one-of-these-cars-is-a-no-brainer-20701.html
People in their mid-30s and older prefer the swoopy front-drive 140S, while those under 35 prefer the distinctive rear-drive 130R.
Well I'm odd man out then. Being in the over mid-30s group my preference is the 130R and for a couple different reasons.
The front engine RWD layout is one, others are upright seating and what appears to be good visibility through lower beltline and a notch back that allows for better rearward vision.
 
#3 ·
"Why? Because Honda could build the 140S. So could Ford and Mazda and Peugeot and Nissan and Chrysler and Volkswagen and Renault. "

Yes, those brands could build the 140S. And sell tens of thousands of them. That's why Chevy should build the 140S. It could use those buyers that would go to Honda and buy something similar.

Not saying that they shouldn't built the 130R But I'd make the 140S the priority. They need a mass market car that may appeal to a younger demo.

Is the 130R the next Camaro? This says that it's on the ATS chassis, which is what they've reported as underpinning the 6th gen Camaro.
 
#4 ·
Yes, those brands could build the 140S. And sell tens of thousands of them. That's why Chevy should build the 140S. It could use those buyers that would go to Honda and buy something similar.
What they might be trying to say is there are many manufacturers that could tool up a 140S looking car easily but none have made a business case for such a car as of yet.
 
#5 ·
Wrong the Tru 140S is hot and I really don't like the other. Sorry to be a fun to drive car it does not have to be RWD anymore Motortrend wake up it is not 1988 GM has a solution called hyperstrut and even without there are many fun FWD cars.
 
#7 ·
OK these Uni kids say they want a RWD 130R, but how many are going to fork up the mid $20K money for one when they can get there 4-seat coupe in FWD elsewhere for a lot less. They were polled on 'profiles' of the cars. Any fool can poll and get any answer depending on how you shape the questioning and how the demographic reacts to certain cues.

And do any of these kids appreciate and want to pay extra for RWD? I doubt they even know how to throttle steer a car mid-corner or power oversteer for fun. They were all raise with SUV's and FWD with them sitting in back watching DVD's or playing digital games while mom drove.


;)
 
#11 · (Edited)
http://blogs.motortrend.com/chevy-130r-vs-140s-one-of-these-cars-is-a-no-brainer-20701.html
People in their mid-30s and older prefer the swoopy front-drive 140S, while those under 35 prefer the distinctive rear-drive 130R. Just one more reason why choosing not to build it would be one of the dumbest decisions GM could make this decade.
Well I'm odd man out then. Being in the over mid-30s group my preference is the 130R and for a couple different reasons.
The front engine RWD layout is one, others are upright seating and what appears to be good visibility through lower beltline and a notch back that allows for better rearward vision.
You're not the only odd-man-out. I'm into my 40s, and the 130R appeals to me for the exact same reasons. Plus, the market can sometimes surprise the manufactures.

Case-In-Point: The Honda Element & Scion XB were intended for the under 30 market, but they've been surprised over the years that a lot of 35+, even baby-boomers, have been purchasing the vehicles, mainly on thier low cost and versatility.

Then there's the danger that the 130R could be too successful, and eventually start eating into the Camaro sales.
 
#31 ·
Isn't the next Camaro supposed to get smaller?

So, the 130R is, in a way, a preview of the next Camaro. But hopefully with more unique bodywork.

And the 140S will be a "little Cruze Coupe."

I think the 130R appeals to enthusiasts of all ages. Keep in mind that most of the USA experiences cars the way MonaroSS described. I wonder where GM did its surveys. I know the asked the college students for the under-35 set, but whom did they ask for the over-35 set? The "Sex And The City" crowd? People who care more about style than substance. Admittedly, the 140S is sharper-looking than the 130R, but that's all those surveyed care about, apparently. Enthusiasts could look at that profile and tell by its proportions it's a front-wheel-drive sporty coupe, which is not bad, but many enthusiasts would take RWD over FWD if it were offered at an attractive price point.
 
#12 ·
GM needs to leverage the platform of the ATS to build and sell something downmarket and cheaper as a Chevy. Spread the costs over more than one model. That's more than badge engineering that's genius. Let Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, et al do that with the fwd world. GM can do that with rwd and exploit that advantage that toyota and honda don't possess. GM doesn't need another fwd vehicle. It desperately needs a rwd option at an affordable price point. Something that hasn't been available for a long time.
 
#14 ·
Meanwhile, early clinics of the 130R and 140S [...] have highlighted a crucial difference between the two. People in their mid-30s and older prefer the swoopy front-drive 140S, while those under 35 prefer the distinctive rear-drive 130R.
Wow, I would have figured it would be the other way around. Most kids today don't care which wheels drive the car and seem to flock to the extreme designs, whereas the older of the two sets would seem to have some connection to RWD, and the potential money to afford the no-doubt more expensive of the two. Just seems the 130R is the more 'pure' car of the two while the 140S relies on traditional hardware under flash. I'm utterly surprised by the supposed poll results.

My opinion, like others have said, build both. Surely they could appease different markets as the polarizing reactions attest.
 
#15 ·
Why are so many people forgetting about the Alpha based 6th gen Camaro? It's going to be smaller and lighter and RWD. I am biased because I live in the snow belt, but the "kids" that they talk about can only afford one car and they need to be able to drive it all year. Camaros and Mustangs suck in the winter (I've owned them).

Just let the 6th gen Camaro happen, and also build the 140s so I can buy one for my commuter car. If I want to get nuts I'll hop on my Honda Interceptor.
 
#17 ·
Any car can suck in the winter if you don't know how to drive in it. I'm not implying you can't so don't take that the wrong way, but I've seen just as many people stuck in the snow and ice in FWD cars as in RWD.
 
#19 ·
I'd like to see both produced, but favor the 130R, partly for reasons outlined in the article. I also like the BMW 1-series, but don't want to pay BMW prices and would rather buy GM if I can. The 130R is the answer. If they could also do a plug-in version (not necessarily Voltec), I'd be all over it.

The Toyobaru mentioned, as well as the Genesis are so BTDT in the styling and configuration departments, they are yawns right out of the gate. Couldn't imagine owning either one, ever. In its price range, the 130R would have zero competition.
 
#20 ·
Toyota has already beaten them
That car looks bad as hell. I'd actually like the 130 if it looked like that with a Bowtie where the Toyota emblem is. That corporate Chevy front end with the crossbar looks horrible though. Nor do I like the car in concept form. I only like MonaroSS's chop. If it looked like that Toyota I might be for it. Ouside of that, I'm still siding with the 140 by a landslide. Rwd of Fwd I just prefer the looks of it.
 
#21 ·
Seriously, just build them both. Good Lord, GM, it's not rocket science. Small FWD coupes still sell in pretty decent numbers, plus you need some competition for the Civic coupe and Hyundai Veloster. It doesn't have to be called a "Cruze", just build it. And as far as the 130R... duh. Use the Alpha platform to its fullest capability. I can seriously think of at least five vehicles that should come from that platform:

-ATS sedan/coupe/convertible/wagon?
-CTS sedan/coupe
-Camaro
-130R coupe/sedan?/wagon?
-Buick Riviera?

And if it's small enough to make a roadster, it should spawn one for at least Caddy, if not Buick or Chevy as well. It's time to step up and be bold. Building bland Toyota clones in bread-and-butter segments will not take GM back to the mountaintop. GM has to build vehicles people want.
 
#24 ·
This has to be one of the most biased "news" threads to pop up in the ticker in a long time.

It's a no-brainer to pick the 130??? For real? Says who?

I do not hold a lot of clout in the fact that this was posted by clearly an anti-Pontiac member of these forums, the avatar is a dead give away.

After all, the rumors and whispers circulating the hallways are hinting at that the 140 took many of the design details from the dead G6 coupe that was under development before Pontiac was axed. So why would Posaune want the 140 to be made?

And don't even begin to bring up the snow driving aspect. Until you live in New York or Michigan, and not Virginia, just trust in those that tell you that RWD is NOT an easy driver in the winter. We have beat this dead horse time and time again in these same forums. It turns into a peeing contest real quickly with no one backing down.

So back to the facts and "news story"... The only way the 130 should be built is if Chevy chopped the top right off of it and made it a soft top convertible. Hence Chevy would finally get it's Solstice/Sky. Otherwise, build the 140 and call it a day. Hell, I'll meet all of you half way... Build it on the RWD chasis and call it a day!
 
#34 ·
This has to be one of the most biased "news" threads to pop up in the ticker in a long time.
It's not a news story, it's a blog and it's editorial.
It's a no-brainer to pick the 130??? For real? Says who?
Angus MacKenzie, the author. He's the former Editor of Motor Trend and current Chief Content Officer for Source Interlink Media.

I do not hold a lot of clout in the fact that this was posted by clearly an anti-Pontiac member of these forums, the avatar is a dead give away.
See above.
 
#28 ·
Build them both. But I agree that the 130R should be a Buick.

Minor updating and regular coupe version would get me into a dealership (I'm 25).
 
#48 ·
Not to rehash the FWD/RWD debate, but having driven both through many Canadian winters, I have the following observations:

1. A car with most of its weight over the driving wheels is less likely to get stuck in the snow.
2. High speed handling dynamics become slow speed handling dynamics in slippery weather. Nose heavy FWD cars understeer into curbs if you overcook corners. Front heavy RWD cars understeer, then oversteer on power ... then get stuck. But a well balanced RWD car is just as much a thing of beauty in the snow as it on a sunny day ... assuming you don't get stuck.
3. Tires are probably as much a factor as drive wheels. A FWD on performace summer tires is lousy in the snow; a well balanced RWD car on winter tires can actually be quite good.
4. Beyond not getting stuck, tires are the biggest factor in terms of foul whether safety. Stopping is not a function of drive wheels; tires are. But a lot more people have accidents because they lose tire traction trying to stop or change lanes then they do from not being able to accelerate from a stop.

All that said, getting stuck is a major pain and can be dangerous if you are somewhere remote in very cold weather. But, jeez, if that's the case, get winter tires, AWD and a survival kit!