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It's an STS and DTS replacement. I would say it would be a step or two below an A8. And certainly not an S-Class competitor.
That is a pretty accurate representation of the DT7. It will be sized similar to the S-Class and 7-Series cars, with a lot of rear seat room, but dynamically it will compare more seriously with the A8 line. It will feature a lot more technology than either the STS or DTS, however, and will be much sportier than either of those cars. Cadillac has apparently decided to risk losing a portion of the existing DTS customer base by doing this, but they believe they will be better off in the long run. The supersedan which will follow after a year or two will be the 7-Series and S-Class competitor.
 
That is a pretty accurate representation of the DT7. It will be sized similar to the S-Class and 7-Series cars, with a lot of rear seat room, but dynamically it will compare more seriously with the A8 line. It will feature a lot more technology than either the STS or DTS, however, and will be much sportier than either of those cars. Cadillac has apparently decided to risk losing a portion of the existing DTS customer base by doing this, but they believe they will be better off in the long run. The supersedan which will follow after a year or two will be the 7-Series and S-Class competitor.
SO.. a step or two above and diagonally from a Town Car... good thing.

If A8 was the target point, that's good. I consider A8 about a half-step below a 7-series for performance, but a step or 2 below the 7. Not shabby at all. I love the ergonomics of the A8. It fits me the best of all Audis, as I get the feeling that everything is at my fingertips. Considering I place the A6 as one of the worst ergonimically, that's pretty good.

As for risking a portion of the existing DTS customer base, IMHO, it is a risky but very necessary thing to do. And that's really what I wanted to hear. And I do believe that in the long run, Cadillac will be better off for it.

Sounds like good news overall.
 
Actually, even the media are realizing that Lincolns really compete with Buick nowadays.
Lincoln does much better in my mind, except for the Enclave, that is the best crossover out there, imo.

Now about Cadillac:
The STS+ DTS = a better car than the CTS, if thats possible, with regular and extended length versions. I figure this is the kind of car that competes with the Chrysler 300C, BMW 5-Series, even though in extended length, it should be more like a 7-Series. Some questions that I have are:
  • What are the engines offered?
  • AWD/RWD/FWD
  • Name?
  • Price?
  • Why should I buy this car over a comparable BMW/Mercedes/Lexus?
I'm thinking that the car should have a 3.6 DI as a base engine, and a 6.2 LS-3 as the optional V8, as they are already in production, why not throw a few to Cadillac?
 
I still would place MKS as a competitor to Park Avenue.
Actually, even the media are realizing that Lincolns really compete with Buick nowadays.
Well, the MKS is going to start at $38,000, so I'm not sure where a US-spec Park Avenue would lie, but that's definitely several notches above its US equivalent, the Lucerne.

For MY2012 or 2013, the MKS is going RWD/AWD, and moving slightly upmarket to make room for the MKR, so it sounds like it will be squarely competing with the Cadillac DT7.

The BIG question about the DT7 is AWD availability. Without it, this car is dead in the water. Here in the Northeast, if you're not offering AWD, you might as well not even bother. S-Class 4MATICS are the toast of the town. Even lowly Lincoln-Mercury dealers around here can barely keep MKZ and MKX sedans and crossovers on the lots, thanks mostly to their AWD option.
 
Discussion starter · #428 ·
Lincoln does much better in my mind, except for the Enclave, that is the best crossover out there, imo.

Now about Cadillac:
The STS+ DTS = a better car than the CTS, if thats possible, with regular and extended length versions. I figure this is the kind of car that competes with the Chrysler 300C, BMW 5-Series, even though in extended length, it should be more like a 7-Series. Some questions that I have are:
  • What are the engines offered?
  • AWD/RWD/FWD
  • Name?
  • Price?
  • Why should I buy this car over a comparable BMW/Mercedes/Lexus?
I'm thinking that the car should have a 3.6 DI as a base engine, and a 6.2 LS-3 as the optional V8, as they are already in production, why not throw a few to Cadillac?
Well since car is coming in 4+ years i doubt there is firm data about DT7 regarding all that.. I think that engine will probably be v6 with DI and 300 hp (or even more ), 3.x V6 with TT and 400+ could be option above that. V8-don't now..but if there is V8 then it will probably going to be in some 500+ top model if there is one.:D Since it is on zeta it will be RWD and who knows maybe AWD option. Price-cheaper than audi A8:D. Name DT7 for now .
 
Judging from what Docray1 posted... I think we're looking at a car ABOVE the STS V8. But not high enough to reach the uber sedans of Germany and England and Japan.
I think he meant the MKS versus the STS V6. I would say the MKS is a step above the current STS (even the V8, once the turbo engine hits the line about 6 months after launch).

Compared to the DT7, it's hard to say. If the DT7 ends up being an uplevel, stretched CTS, I'd say it definitely has the current MKS's number (AWD nonwithstanding), but we'll see what Lincoln has up its sleeve for 2012.

I've always thought a well-done midsized-large Cadillac would sell very well. The STS and DTS aren't it, though. I'm optimistic about this one, though.
 
I think he meant the MKS versus the STS V6. I would say the MKS is a step above the current STS (even the V8, once the turbo engine hits the line about 6 months after launch).
So now apparently, a FWD MKS is now a "step above" a RWD STS??
NOT ON YOUR LIFE!!!
Not only that... STS has 30HP MORE with its V6!!!

MKS is not even in the STS's class level!!
 
So now apparently, a FWD MKS is now a "step above" a RWD STS??
maybe not... but they do have an AWD MKS which is priced just below the base RWD STS V6(AWD Lincoln MKS MSRP: $39,855).

If the DT7 ends up being an uplevel, stretched CTS, I'd say it definitely has the current MKS's number (AWD nonwithstanding)
Sort of like the 1st gen CTS and current STS? or like a STS and chinese market SLS?

By the way, how is the current STS and DTS doing? Any recent sales figures?
 
Thanks.
You just proved my point about the MKS being a step BELOW the STS.
...so the MKS is a step below the STS because their AWD model is priced lower than the base RWD STS V6.

I think the MKS overlaps with the market of the STS even if they are not direct competitors.

So what will the DT7 be?
I'm assuming its more of an STS replacement than a DTS replacment.
 
The BIG question about the DT7 is AWD availability. Without it, this car is dead in the water. Here in the Northeast, if you're not offering AWD, you might as well not even bother. S-Class 4MATICS are the toast of the town. Even lowly Lincoln-Mercury dealers around here can barely keep MKZ and MKX sedans and crossovers on the lots, thanks mostly to their AWD option.
The DT7 WILL be offered in RWD and AWD versions. 3 engine options will be available at/near the start of production: A base 3.8L V6 and a direct-injection version (same as the CTS) and also a twin-turbo 3.0L high performance V6. A hybrid is to follow. The Ultra V8 and diesel powerplants have been dropped from the lineup - for now.
 
I stopped by at my dealer yesterday and he casually mentioned that the STS/DTS replacement was due in about a year (2010 MY). I didn’t press him for this info, but he said that is what Cadillac is telling him. Considering what I’ve been reading herein regarding the timeline for the replacement as 2012 MY I was rather surprised, pleasantly so. The more I think this through the more reasonable it seems that 2010 could be the year. We are all speculating as to how detrimental, how suicidal it could be for Cadillac to continue to field the present STS & DTS for 3 ½ more years. Cadillac management is surely thinking the same thing. Their very survival depends on offering competitive product and the consensus is that these two offerings aren’t competitive today. In three years they will be laughable. Cadillac has already been at the edge of the abyss before, so I’m certain they learned a lesson from that. They’ve again built themselves back up to be relevant, so I can’t believe they will let their product line languish for three or four more years. They simply can’t afford to.

Cadillac has been playing their cards close to the vest lately, witness the near production ready CTS Coupe, near production ready Provoq, and MCE XLR. Based on what my dealer said, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the DT7 at NAIAS 2009 for a 2010 intro. And I’ll bet we’ll see some sort of V8 in the upper level model. Remember, Ultra V8 is “sitting on a shelf with a bow on it” or so I’ve read. It was too far along to just ditch it. This only makes sense.
 
I stopped by at my dealer yesterday and he casually mentioned that the STS/DTS replacement was due in about a year (2010 MY). I didn’t press him for this info, but he said that is what Cadillac is telling him. Considering what I’ve been reading herein regarding the timeline for the replacement as 2012 MY I was rather surprised, pleasantly so. The more I think this through the more reasonable it seems that 2010 could be the year. We are all speculating as to how detrimental, how suicidal it could be for Cadillac to continue to field the present STS & DTS for 3 ½ more years. Cadillac management is surely thinking the same thing. Their very survival depends on offering competitive product and the consensus is that these two offerings aren’t competitive today. In three years they will be laughable. Cadillac has already been at the edge of the abyss before, so I’m certain they learned a lesson from that. They’ve again built themselves back up to be relevant, so I can’t believe they will let their product line languish for three or four more years. They simply can’t afford to.

Cadillac has been playing their cards close to the vest lately, witness the near production ready CTS Coupe, near production ready Provoq, and MCE XLR. Based on what my dealer said, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the DT7 at NAIAS 2009 for a 2010 intro. And I’ll bet we’ll see some sort of V8 in the upper level model. Remember, Ultra V8 is “sitting on a shelf with a bow on it” or so I’ve read. It was too far along to just ditch it. This only makes sense.
Sorry to say, your dealer has information that was valid about 6 months ago. The DT7 has now been delayed again. No set time for the public introduction of the concept has yet been made, but the car will not be production-ready before mid 2011. There is no V8 presently being developed for this car, but the "supersedan" which will follow later on will have a V8 that might be based on the new Corvette DOHC engine being developed. It might also be a limited production V8 obtained from an outside source. As far as the CTS coupe is concerned, it's design (like the as yet unintroduced wagon) was completed a while back and the only "surprise" was that it was shown at the NAIAS without advance notice. Those cars - along with a convertible model that has been dropped - could have been available already were it not for financial issues that resulted in delays.
 
DoCray1, I'm really confused right now. My father works for Cadillac and we were told that a replacement for the DTS/STS will be out around 2010 as a 2011 model. Now I thought I heard the replacement will be known as the "DTZ", what the hell is the DT7?

DT7- A8/S-Class/7 Series Fighter?
DTZ- A6/E-Class/5-Series Fighter?

Please confirm this info and which is the "super sedan" as well as where you recieve your sources if you don't mind, PM if you like.

Thank You

Joe
 
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