UGH.... I wonder what Apple has to say about the "G5" designation.

I don't think Pontiac needs a full-sized offering. A crossover would be nice.
So... The lineup could be...
Cars: Vibe, GTO, G6, Grand Prix/G8.
SUV/Van/X-Over: Torrent, X-Over, Montana.

I think that's a pretty decent lineup right there.
Sad to see the Bonne go. But I say, let Buick Lucerne compete with the 300/300C.

 

I love how GM thinks that just because they're having trouble pushing their ancient cars, that it has to relate to the entire segment. When they couldn't sell F-bodies, they said "coupes don't sell anymore," ignoring of course the 100k+ Mustangs sold per year. Similarly, its a a little stupid to assume that the Bonneville's slip in sales relates to a drop in the market for these cars. I think it has more to do with the fact that the Bonneville is working on a 6 yr old design that wasn't completely new even then (same fwd, 3800 as prev gen). this design also was not well recieved when new, as it exemplified the cladding excesses of the brand. i don't see the Avalon or 300 having trouble. I think if GM redesigned the Bonneville- even on the FWD chassis - they would see great results. Also, I think that Pontiac really doesn't need crossovers or trucks - the Torrent is more than enough for them. If GM just keeps ceding markets they will continue to decline.

 

This figures. This is the last decent Pontiac made and GM decides to Oldsmobile it. This company has no shame and no common sense. The Grand Prix is ugly, cramped, and the worst model with the nameplate in years. What a shame that a car that in the mid 1990's was an excellent product has been allowed to deteriorate into a third rate product.

 

This figures. This is the last decent Pontiac made and GM decides to Oldsmobile it. This company has no shame and no common sense. The Grand Prix is ugly, cramped, and the worst model with the nameplate in years. What a shame that a car that in the mid 1990's was an excellent product has been allowed to deteriorate into a third rate product.

I agree, at least with what you said in regards to the Bonneville. They let the car rot. I mean, can somebody tell me how a base 2005 Boneville differs in any substantial way from say, the 1990 model? I remember we owned a 1990 with a 3800 engine. The fact that there are so few players in the big car market means that a half way decent car should clean up.

 

Come on GM, Build a full size Pontiac with some flair, a V-8, and RWD. Finish it off with some sticky tires and a 6 speed auto. The full size market isn't dead, and the last thing GM needs is another cross-over or SUV. dav305z, as far as the F-body goes i can't agree with you more. My wife loves our last generation Camaro. The marketing was for crap. If they had advertised it to women as Americas most exciting grocery getter, they'd have sold 100k.

 

This figures. This is the last decent Pontiac made and GM decides to Oldsmobile it. This company has no shame and no common sense. The Grand Prix is ugly, cramped, and the worst model with the nameplate in years. What a shame that a car that in the mid 1990's was an excellent product has been allowed to deteriorate into a third rate product.

slight exaggeration. you are a bitter old man, btw...seriously, be HAPPY!!!

 

I would hope that with less than a year they would have a plan yes or no by now.
If they are mulling this around this around at this late date heaven help 'em...

 

I really hope another "crossover" is not the successor to the Bonneville. You should not totally eliminate a market segment. As others have said, maybe the car isn't selling well because it's drastically outdated. The Bonneville hasn't been updated to a new platform in years...and in 2005 still has a 4 speed automatic as it's only transmission.
If they do decide to eliminate the Bonneville, then hopefully the next generation grand prix will be a lot bigger than it is now. The current Grand prix is not much bigger than the G6.

 

This is a shame if there ever was one. The Bonneville has been in constant production since 1957, so it must have done something right. Forget the stupid G# names, they have no meaning. Switch Bonneville back to RWD along with the new RWD cars coming along in the next few years, and keep the name!
________
Roxanne69

 

I agree, no stupid G names. No stupid cross overs, just give us a good full sized car.

 

I'm sorry to see the Bonnie go to, but you have no clue what you are talking about when you call the Grand Prix ugly. It is one of the best looking car GM has produced since the rear drive Monte Carlo SS. I should know, I had one. And the Grand Prix GTP turns heads all the time, just like the SS did. It's NOT CRAMPED. Get into one of those 300's, for a big car it does not have all that much space on the inside. And everybody stop GRIPING about the 3800 engine. It's still one of the best, most reliable engines on the market today!!!

 

GM is acting stupid again!!! Though if the next gen GP is bigger and rwd, I don't see the need for three different sedans in the stable.

 

I suppose asking Pontiac to merge the GP and Bonneville into one fabulous RWD/AWD vehicle is too much to ask for. You know, a base model with one or two V-6 engines and a top-of-the-line V-8? Sounds frightenly like another non-GM division's plans with their larger family sedan, I know, but I think it may have merit.

I agree with dav305z; just because GM's entries in a market are faring poorly does not mean the market as a whole is doing poorly. You would figure someone at GM would have realized that by now. How frustrating.

And I also agree with those who prefer historical names (Corvette, Camaro, GTO, and Mustang come quickly to mind). I suppose some vehicles having alpha-numeric designations is fine, but there's some equity left in some GM nameplates - believe it or not.

 

The next generation Bonne should be a RWD sports sedan. I read almost a year ago that Pontiac wanted to be more like Lexus & other luxury brands. Here is the hammer that Thor needs: RWD, LS2 as top engine & optional 6speed manual. Goodbye 300C, GS430, & Mercedes anything (excluding their V12's). Perhaps make a RWD Grand Prix & make the Bonneville a top "trim" level. Grand Prix's w/V6 & small V8 power; Bonneville only available with LS2, etc. Just a thought.

 

I can't think of any Gm car that's been on the market continuously than the Bonneville (except the corvette). There is an unbelievable amount of history in the bonneville name. It first came just when the biggest changes were happening @ pontiac and right when it was about to fire right back into the thick of things. It's been the flagship for almost 50 years (47 pushing 48 as of now) and has done the company much to stay afloat and rise above the competition.
It has sold mirraculously and many of the models (if not most) are perfect models of the best styling of their times.
The latest GXP is a great looker and finally has the long overdue V8.

Chrysler has recently stepped up their 300 model which is now selling gloriously. This alone should be enough incentive for pontiac to plan a redesigned Bonneville!!!
Look at it this way: The 300M (this was what the 300C was made to replace in chrysler's line) was slower than the supercharged Bonnie and I think sold worse (correct me on this?) But as soon as chrysler fixed it (made the 300C) it outsold everyone in the market and is now one heck of an icon for its entire company. If a car far worse than the bonneville did this, then there is no reason for GM or Pontiac to give up on the bonneville. Yes it will require an investment (you have to redesign a car here!) but if its done right, there is a guaranteed market out there.

The answer to Gm's problems is not throwing in a new model that is currently in demand (some cross over). Pontiac isn't known for its SUVs and now is not the time to bet on a new crossover to help out the company. A much better solution would be to continue the current movement of the impressive sedans (see G6 and GP gxp) with a final statment on the ultimate sedan (i.e.a redisngned RWD V8 Bonne.... available in v6 too of course for sales reasons).

At the same time I admit that 3 sedans in a lineup might not sound like the greatest idea, but there have been multiple sedans in Pontiac's lineup for a LONG time. The GrandAm/GrandPrix/Bonneville triumverate have been available in the lineup together for alooong time (thru good times and bad for the company..)

However, seeing as hwo they aren't seeing past the 2005 timeframe for this car, this can only mean 1 of 2 things:
1.) The bonneville has been dropped past 2005
or
2.) They are working on a new car that COULD be named the Bonneville, but whose nomenclature has not been finalized.


I sure hope they don't cancel it, the Bonne is personally my favorite car!! GM doesn't have any "big" full sized sedans outside of Cadillac (and buick...) If they want one that can be sold in the lower end as a value full size (i.e.a low end bonnie) and a luxurious one (a high trim bonnie) the bonneville would be a perfect place go strike. Redesigning with a brother Impala and a brother Buick Park Avenue would be a great idea. I hope GM does't miss the mark............

 

Pontiac does not need a Bonneville, who in the right mind would purchase Bonneville gxp over Cadillac cts.

 

I can understand the question over the Bonneville. My first Bonneville was a 1990. After that I bought a 93, 96, 98, and finally the 2001. The second group, 93 thru 98 were super cars, especially the 93 thru 98 models. They were the answer, FWD for Pennsylvania winters, great handling for a big car, lots of room, great gas mileage, good resale, sporty, and not much more than an Impala or Crown Vic. The models, I had had zero defects!
Along came the 2001, big, ugly, no head room, poor visibility, not so sporty, and not nimble in the handling department. In 2004 I looked at a new Bonneville. The car on the lot, SE model had two options, no leather, no sun roof, no sound upgrade, and was $29,000. My car(2001) was worth nothing. I think not for this "TUB".
So, I bought an Impala LS, best of the worst, a lot less money!
Bonnevilles will sell in front drive if they look good and they are priced right. Why buy a Bonneville when you can get a rebated SUV for less!
Yes, rear wheel drive will give you a bit better handling, but give the average person front wheel or rear wheel and they can't tell the difference! I think car makers are pushing rear wheel drive because they are cheaper to make. I can't wait until all those Chrysler 300 drivers are stuck in the snow this winter in Pennsylvania.
As for the new Gran Prix, it's a pile of money for a small car. Compared to earlier GP's it looks like a narrow cigar. The G-6.....dumb name....is more of the same looks, smaller, same price.
The new GTO was a failure, try again.
So, GM is on the "everything looks the same" kick. They should just call them BIG, MIDDLE, SMALL and charge the same price for all of them, which in most cases they do. Think I'm crazy, go to a Pontiac or Buick dealership and try to pick out the different models if they are parked side by side facing you!
Pontiac better hope that AZTECS become classics......."REMEMBER THE FIERO" guys!
It's sad, a great name, PONTIAC, on some not so great cars.........

 

Bon voyage for Bonneville? Pontiac not saying beyond '05

But more telling is that Bonneville sales have steadily slipped, to 27,000 in the first 10 months of 2004 from a high of 96,000 in the 1995 model year.

Bonny sales have slipped because other car companies offer cars with RWD and GOBS of POWER i.e. 300C at a much cheaper price.

"We keep asking what direction to take beyond '05 and if we should have a full-size sedan or a crossover like the Nissan Murano instead," Bunnell said.

"There might not be room for a full-size car. There's a lot of other things we could do with the money. Crossovers may be what we need to watch and where we need to react, perhaps a Pontiac or a GMC crossover or both," he said.

i might have voice my opionion on this before but PONTIAC DOES NOT NEED A CROSSOVER VEHICLE. where the excitment in the montanas and the SV6. if you want throw in the 5.3L v-8 thats going to go into the G/P GXP but make sure its got AWD get some use from the power.

if you dont fell theres room for a full size car then kill the SV6 also 4 mini vans is too much for the GM line up. go to a chevy or saturn dealership for a minivan. dont tell me the sport cross over vehicles, its big like a mini van square like a mini van, hold lots of crap like a minivan, its a minivan.

One possibility is to produce the next-generation Grand Prix sedan and a successor to Bonneville off the same platform and make the Bonneville successor a crossover.

General Motors plans more rear-drive vehicles. It wants, for example, to build the next-generation Pontiac GTO in North America.

By doing so, Pontiac would cut out the time it takes between producing the GTO at GM's Holden subsidiary in Australia and shipping it to the U.S. GTO is a derivative of the Holden Monaro.

"We're looking closely at G5 or G8 designations. Lexus [ES330] and Infiniti [Q45] have done well with it," Bunnell said, hinting that the next-generation Prix could be the G8.

if you guys need help on developping new platforms talk to caddy. there doing really well right now with there new porfolio.

for the love of cars and northamerican jobs please build it on this continent. the only FWD drive cars that GM should have are the small ones, from the wave, pursuit, vibe, and the G6 after that build them RWD. please.

my last complaint about pontiac is to drop the whole alpha numeric names. ITS BEEN DONE. the reason other companies have succeded with it is because they started it. give it a name a real name that will get a customers attention.

 

imo, pontiac needs to take note at how lexus does things, they should have a rear drive compact(kappa), a rear drive mid size(GP) a rear drive full size(Bonne, Catalina, Chieftan etc) and a front drive midsize cash cow. the es330 is the best selling car that lexus has, but most people buy it for the image of lexus. They have the gs series as their rwd midsize, but its more for "enthusiasts" (if you think that lexus can attarct those). That should be pontiacs goal. I dont want a Bonneprix,(even though its a catchy name). and the last thing that they need is another crossover. Keep the names, and keep making cars, if i want a sporty crossover, ill take a vue redline, melt it a bit, and reshape the front a bit. Rant over

 

I say GM should share the chassis under next Holden Caprice with the Bonneville. I believe there is a market for a full-size Pontiac because not everyone wants to pay mid-30s for a 'tweener like the CTS, not to mention the love it-hate it styling. If all else fails, it would make life easier for a future GTO by holding the bottom line.

 

I can't wait until all those Chrysler 300 drivers are stuck in the snow this winter in Pennsylvania.

Well, I'm bracing myself for that too. I've got the 300C's trunk full of road salt, shovel, and snow brush. Bring it on. I managed just fine with a 40 year old Buick, so I don't see how this car will present a problem.

 

I agree, at least with what you said in regards to the Bonneville. They let the car rot. I mean, can somebody tell me how a base 2005 Boneville differs in any substantial way from say, the 1990 model? I remember we owned a 1990 with a 3800 engine. The fact that there are so few players in the big car market means that a half way decent car should clean up.

Hmmmm, well let's see. The base Bonneville now has 40 H.P. more than in 1990. Also, not to mention all the technological advances this car has now, over then. Most of the optional features in 1990, are now standard. Ok...then, the interior actually had a little more room in some areas, which was surprising to me after researching it. (trunk is bigger now) I wouldn't go as far as saying they let it rot. It was totally redesigned in 2000, so I don't know why people say it's "been years" since it's been changed. Unless, they mean that it has the same engine, and trans, and is still FWD...that I will agree with. But it's far better than years past in most things tecnologically speaking. (not to say, it wasn't good in 1990, but nothing in comparison to today's model). Now, the engine components are having a life expectancy of 100K or more, which wasn't even thought of back then. (at least in this price range)
Here's my take on what Pontiac should do from here: Don't drop the Bonneville, but update it in 2006 with some styling updates. (total new sheetmetal, and interior.) Have the Northstar offered in the base model as an option, and have the consumer opt for the 3800 if they want to save money. (this, to see if the 3800 is still popular, or if people really want the power) but still have it FWD. Then.....if they must have RWD, offer another fullsized RWD model, called either Catalina, or Paresianne (sp?) from past names. Base it on the chassis of the Cadillac STS. This should have an even more powerful V8 than in the FWD models. This will help in competing with other car makers, but will not drive others away. I think taking the FWD fullsized, or even FWD midsized models away, is a HUGE mistake. The mainstream buyer is not interested in racing these vehicles, so why is RWD so important? FWD is way more versital of a platform. I do think Bonneville should have more room in the rear seat, head and legroom wise. Anyway, that's my idea, which probably won't work, since it sounds like GM has already made up its mind on dropping at least the name Bonneville. I could live with a fullsized car named G8, but I will have a hard time buying a crossover vehicle "instead" of buying a fullsized car. So...my 2004 Bonneville will have to be my last Pontiac fullsized car if this happens. It's my first fullsized car I've ever owned, and I would buy another Bonneville or G8, if it was still to be offered.

 

Lexus!! No way...

Look, I know we are all arm chair Car Czars, but I Pontiac has exactly what they want to do, pretty much set in stone.
There will be a RWD sedan to replace teh Bonnie. I dont care too much for the present one. It does look nice, but times change.
Pontiac needs to slim down its cars. They should reflect Holden, only with more flare.
Large RWD sedan to fill in the GP and Bonnies place, the GTO, G6 should go to Torana chassis, Delta 3 and 5dr hatch, and Solstice. Thats all. Oh yeah, throw in an AWD, 3.6 6spd crossover sports wagon/SUV.
They should worry only about sporty cars. They should attack the sporty, mid lux market that is now dominated by Acura and Infinity. Slim market. They dont need mini vans, or anything like that. Sporty, agile, and agressive cars. Sharp lines, clean styling. There cars should look like they would not be picked up on radar. G6 has this design, Solstice has this design, and even the GTO has this to a lesser degree. Sleek, short overhang, very tight styling. Hi-po motors with handling that would make you feel like you are on rails.
Do that Pontiac, and you will be fine. Forget history and large land boats with mega blocks, along with body cladding and FWD performance... Make euro-like performance cars with a strong stance and good power. Infinity reinvented themselves with 1 chassis.

 

I like the Bonne just as much as others, but there really isn't room for it. Pontiacs lineup should include a small car to compete with the Civic/Focus, etc., small midsize (aka: G6), and the GrandPrix. Have a sporty crossover and a sport coupe. If Pontiac put all of their resources into these 5 vehicles they would be very successful.

Base the small and small midsize on the Kappa platform, the GP and the GTO on the Zeta, and the crossover on the Sigma. Then work on brand definition. To me, each car is too different in it's message. What is the Vibe? So who is the Bonne/GP/G6 each appealing to? Is the Montana really needed?

Define the brand first, and then each car. Design each car to dominate its' segment, not change the grill on a Chevy, throw an arrowhead on the trunk and call it a Pontiac. This only dillutes the entire brand. Am I way off on this???

 

Has anyone ever noticed that Chrysler will sell about 140,000 300 models this year, in a market of 17 million vehicles. But on almost every thread the 300 used as the reason XXX model is not selling well.

Also - do we really believe that GM doesn't know if they will build a Bonneville/g8/whatever in 2006? GM has to know what they will be building 2010. Whatever has been decided - its a done deal by now