40mpg highway and 160hp would be pretty impressive, especially with an automatic. So might this prompt GM to respond with a SIDI 2.0 Ecotec for the Cruze?

 

I doubt it. Sad that Ford has this great base engine--far better then the 1.8L Cruze. And the 1.4L Turbo does not much far much better. No direct injection and an iron block (IIRC). I want to like the Cruze but it's just too gutless

 

Well, that didnt take long for someone to "outdo" it.

Still, the 1.4T will probably "feel" faster due to the turbo than the 2.0.

 

Unfortunately, this is General Motors, sore spot. It used to be FORD's as well. The real competition will come from Korea with the Hyundai/KIA brands covering all the bases, from Hybrid to Turbo models, at a great price point!

The competition issue is one GM always underestimated, and it cost dearly. Make no mistake the Cruze, will either make or break GM!:yup:

:drive:

 

Kinda' makes you wonder how much more skewed the comparison with the Cruze will become when Ford releases the Ecoboost powered version.

 

And what did having a bonfied road rocket do for GM's rep when they released the SS Cobolt? Sweet diddly fack all is what. Sure it gave street cred to all those 18 year old wanna be street racers....all the while Honda and Yota walked away with sales volume and profits in tow.

Having a big motor option will account for a tiny amount of sales and will bring in minimal amount of traffic for volume sales. For a car company fighting to become respectable to the masses, should chasing ET's and track times be a priority?

 

Oh Dear God ....here we go again.

Show me the RPM bands for the 2.0 Liter. I will call it now...this motor will need to buzz to make power. The 1.4T makes max torque at 1850rpm and holds it right on up. Personally, for a daily, I want a flat torque curve...especially if I am rocking an automatic.

40mpg...? with what gearing? the only thing gutless will be the Focus if this is the case. Want reference?.... take the Sonota with its mind shaking power numbers and light weight is barely faster than only a small number of its competators. How can that be possible?..... Its killing everyone with its numbers.

There is more to performance than numbers folks. wait for this car to come out then judge. Of course you will need to wait for even saleable reviews, as the Focus is still months away. This hysterical "The Cruze is outdated already" response is absolute retardedness. All they have to do is at DI to the 1.4, and vola... big gains.

I'll make another call now, the 2014 Corolla will out do the 2011 Cruze...yup you heard it here first. What kind of tards work at GM to not figure out how to out do a car that isn't out yet for another couple years all for bargin compact pricing..... must be "Old GM" at work

 

Jumpy, the sad thing is this: this is the BASE engine. There will be Ecoboost versions that will make 180+ HP and get 40+ MPGs on the highway as well.

 

Bull shat ..... I'll believe it when I see it. Like Scotty used to tell the good captain. "You cunnot change the laws of physics capin"

You can't just keep making power and not suffer in economy. If you make it economical with all that power you have situation where you need to comprimise with gearing and/or power band (Turbo comes on later). If you go allout and get performance, there is only so many BTU's in a set unit of gasoline, and unless Ford has defied the laws of physics and started making motors that rival those of F1 decent, it will not get 40mpg. If they do make some gee-whiz motor that gets power, drivability, vehicle performace and economy, the price point will not be in this universe....certianly not inthe Focus class, regardles of economies of scale.

Everyone needs to stop with the panic

 

Or the infinite miles per gallon electric version.

 

The power band doesn't concern me as much---the 40mpg however does gives me cause for pause. IMO the Eco Cruze should've at the very least been able to cancel out 40mpg.

 

300hp, 30mpg. Or if power tickles your fancy... 412hp for ~$30,000.

Tell someone 5 years ago that this would be the case, and they would have laughed in your face.

Underestimate Ford at your own peril.

 

300hp, 30mpg. Or if power tickles your fancy... 412hp for ~$30,000.

Tell someone 5 years ago that this would be the case, and they would have laughed in your face.

Underestimate Ford at your own peril.

How much different is the Camaro? 312hp/28mpg, in a heavier car, and older motor. The SS model is 426HP and will run you $30K as well. Performance wise the two are twins, seperated by a tenth in the quarter....the Camaro slightly more refined (I know, I've driven both). Checking the specs, they are very ....very close. Camaro is playing with a hand that is a 2-3 years in already. Think the Next Camaro MCE will still be what it is?

I don't think anyone is undersestimating Ford, but lets not put them on that pedestal either.

Edit...The Mustang is one sexy ride, so its not like I'm puttin git down

 

The 1.4T in the Cruze should've made another 20 hp IMO.

 

DI would easily cure that...and probably get the highway MPG to around 38 with the automatic.

DCT would hit 40 easily.

Ti-VCT + aluminum block? Probably close to 45 MPG.

That should be GM's goal with the 2013 MCE.

 

That Focus starting to look like the Corolla.

http://www.toyota.com/img/vehicles/2010/corolla/gallery/full/2009-Corolla-10.jpg

 

What?! The new Focus looks like nothing in its class. Im not completely sold on the front end but I think its a great looking car, the Cruze is decidedly more American looking but its also very good looking in its own right.

Just a side note, remember that the other "big 3" American has the Caliber to offer...

 

I am with Jumpy on one thing - wait and see for the power delivery.

I am not even sure whether the "new" 2.0 is still the Duratec/MZR engine used currently in the Focus / Mazda3 etc but improved. (If it is, the torque will be fine ... just saying).

Either way - spec sheet raccing is always pointless.

These are, however, great numbers to see. I will not buy this Focus - for many reasons I have detailed elsewhere - but I am happy it is a solid contender.

I do still have my fingers crossed for a 1.6l EB Focus - 160hp and 45mpg.

Igor

 

2012 Ford Focus To Get 160 Horsepower, Direct Injection 2.0-L Motor, 40 MPG Est.

2012 Ford Focus To Get 160 Horsepower, Direct Injection 2.0-L Motor, 40 MPG Est.

When the 2012 Ford Focus hits the US next year, it will be powered by this, Ford's new 2.0-liter direct-injection, Ti-VCT dual variable cams,E85 capable 160 horsepower inline four. The motor produces 146 pound-feet of torque.

These numbers are up from the current, 2011 Focus which makes 140 horsepower and 136 pound-feet of torque. And while the new motor is significantly more powerful, Ford estimates that its combination of dual variable valve timing and direct injection will net 40 mpg, this is up from 25/34 in the 2011 Focus with an automatic transmission. Ford's 40 MPG claim for 2012 was using an automatic trans.

Frictional losses are minimized with electric power steering and an alternator decoupler.

This new engine will be produced at Ford's Dearborn engine plant.

http://blogs.insideline.com/straigh...12-ford-focus-to-get-160-horsepower-direct-injection-20-l-motor-40-mpg-est.html

 

Re: 2012 Ford Focus To Get 160 Horsepower, Direct Injection 2.0-L Motor, 40 MPG Est.

I posted this earlier, maybe they won't delete your post.

Hard to believe the Focus can get 40 mpg when the lighter and smaller Fiesta with the same dual clutch auto only gets 40 mpg on one decontented SFE model and only 38 mpg in the normal trim levels.

I bet the Cruze could better 36 mpg on the 1.4T/6 speed auto models if the engine wasn't turning at 2500 rpm on the highway at 65 mph.

 

Fiesta doesn't have direct injection.

That being said... 1.6LEB should be interesting.

 

WHEN Focus and Cruze outsell Corolla and Civic in 2010/11 all those spec sheet wars are meaningless blurbs.

The same apply for Fusion and Malibu...

 

GM has promised that it wants to be class leading, not almost as good or as good as the competition.

Expect a quick response to Ford's claimed numbers. GM has the technology to stay one step ahead of Ford.

The one upmanship battle has begun!

 

Huh?

Ford's 3.5L Ecoboost gets identical mileage to the naturally aspirated version, so why would you expect anything different for a 4-cylinder?

Also, remind me real quick what 4,300 lb AWD sedan with 365hp gets anywhere NEAR the mileage of the Ford Ecoboost?

 

Hmm this new 2.0L base engine from Ford seems quite impressive. From the looks of it the 1.8L Cruze base motor gets trumped by this engine.

However. All of this is on paper and not tested in real world driving. I will reserve my kudos until some reviews come in.

 

The 2.0L trumps the upgrade turbo Cruze engine.
I've been saying this all along. I would much rather have a larger DI naturally aspirated engine than a tiny turbo. Turbo's are less reliable and have some lag no matter how good they are. Plus, the 1.4T is too slow.
I'm expecting an upgrade to the powerplant next model year, not 2013. Otherwise Gm has lots of 'splainin to do.

 

The Focus is a really nice car. The styling is a little overdone. Like they tried to fit the styling of a bigger car onto a small one. I remember liking the previous Euro models more. I think it does the original model justice -- such a tragedy that Ford just let that car go to crap. Drove a red sedan in drivers ed and I really liked it a lot.

I think the Cruze gets the short end of the stick on this website. GM has aimed it at the heart of the American compact market. It offers clean modern styling, lots of space, high quality interior, respectable power, good warranty, 10 standard airbags, Onstar, and excellent FE. Really a well rounded package.

Then there is the reflection of the Volt they'll see in the crystal red tintcoat paint..... Think about it. What is the one aspect of the Corolla previously unmatched by any competitor? Horsepower, fuel economy, fit and finish, styling, price??? Hint: It is a funny shaped hatchback with no redeeming feature save for its gas mileage.

GM gets it. They get it even more than Ford does.

Either way it looks like they will both be best in class compacts, at least for now.


------------------------------

FYI: My mother doesn't really like cars. Like a lot of non car people she can be very illogical about them when she does bother to look. She doesn't like the Impala because of "those stupid deer on it" (It is an IMPALA mama!). That one is too big. That one is too small. That color is ugly. I don't like those tail lights. Aveos are clown cars!

She saw a print ad for the Chevrolet Cruze:

"What is this Cruze? This is nice. Why are they only showing you the front? What does the rest of it look like?"

46 year old, white, middle class, female -- GM, I believe you have reached the target market. (When was the last time you saw someone under 40 in a brand new compact car? The first Fiesta I saw was an old man.)

 

2012 Focus specifications are pretty good and very simliar to the Cruze - loaded with everything is about $26K. Nice content can be had for $22-23K.

Sedan Spec. Sheet:
http://www.fordvehicles.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/focus_tech_rebate4d.pdf

Hatch Spec. Sheet:
http://www.fordvehicles.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/focus_tech_rebate5d.pdf

 

should chasing ET's and track times be a priority?

WOW

Do you honestly think GM ever really chased that save like less than a half dozen cars in the past 20 years? Hahahahaha... Ohh boy..
P.S. do you realize that for the majority of time, the Civic Si was faster than 98% of GM's portfolio. No really.

 

Like I've said before... the Cruze is the new Corolla, and the Focus is the new Civic. Both high quality small cars, but have completely different looks, feels, and target markets.

 

Wait, I have to shift off the non Ecoboost 2.0.....

It's not anti Ecoboost rhetoric - it's right on the money laughter at Ford's dance between the rain drops and Farley's typical over the top double spin double standard propaganda.

So what... you're mad that Farley actually knows how to sell vehicles, and Ford has a functioning public-relations department? The technical details behind vehicle design and engineering is miles over the heads of 98% of Americans, so how closely the message ties in with reality is a fuzzy art, to say the least. Complaining that 'mileage of a V6 with the power of a V8' isn't a 100% accurate tagline completely misses the point, and says you really don't have much of a background in marketing to the general public.

Btw, is this a good time to ask - how much do you think the head start the Cruze has will be worth ?

I don't know... how many people have Cobalts, Cavaliers, and Malibus they've been waiting to trade in? Same goes with how many people have a Focus waiting to trade in. Cruze won't win many, if any, conquest sales at first. Once both the Cruze and Focus have been on the road for awhile, we'll start seeing outside interest.

Not really.

Give the current Chrysler product an at / tc - as efficient as the Taurus has + maybe a little aero tweak so the Chryslers are less disadvantaged and then -

Taurus is as much of an aerodynamic brick as the 300C and Charger is.

It's also important to recognize that the small-block Chevy and Hemi are unusually fuel-efficient for V8's. Check out the offerings from the Germans and Japanese to get a better sense of how the rest of the world works.

 

Hey, while we're tryin' to get all the manure moved here from in front of the Cruze - can we get an update on fleet sale numbers at Ford and ask the question if dropping Mazda down means discussions, plans,and options concerning Ford and Toyota are proceeding ahead ?

 

LOL ...sure ...because that would be right on topic with this thread

 

My question is if the Focus is still set to get a convertible, and if so when should it be available in a showroom?

 

Within 3 years. Depends on the roll out, but there will be a follow-up convertible.

Is the 1.6L EB eventually coming to the Focus?

Before I bought my Fusion, that was the engine I was honed in on due to its' power and fuel efficiency (more powerful than the base 2.0 and better FE than the 2.0 EB in the Focus ST...I'd imagine the FE would be comparable or better than the base 2.0 too).

It's a non-issue anyway because I plan on keeping the Fusion for the long haul (at least until the 75,000 mile point where my service plan expires...then run it until I start to have repair issues)...but perhaps sometime down the road I'd want the next iteration of the Focus. I still prefer C-segments over the D-segments due to the cost/fuel efficiency gains...but the 2010 Fusion is plenty fuel efficient for the time being.

Focus is definitely getting the 1.6L Ecoboost. The final numbers depend purely on the approach and tune. A Fiesta RS is certainly not going to be a mileage champ, for example.