Buick Enclave comes out of the gate with $1000 incentive on the hood
CaymanS
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Smarta$$!!VivienM said:I don't have to admit anything... given I have no practical experience with 4.0L Auroras...
Kidding aside, if I were looking for an inexpensive, used, mid-sizer, I'd look for a 3.5 liter Intrigue. Now that's bang for the buck!
That's a nice car, having rented a few when they were in production (sad, I know!). Very comfortable with good performance and mileage. This was a match for any Cam-Cord from the same era in terms of dynamics.VivienM said:
23K miles sounds great for a 5 year-old car. It's almost new.
The asking price should have the "dead division" discount built-in, so you could make a sweet deal with a reasonable seller. How much are they looking to get?
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They started asking $17988 (CAD) back in September, I think... when I first discovered it, it was $14988. Now down to $11988. If I had the $$$$...vanshmack said:
The "dead division" discount isn't as visible up here as it should be (though still $1-3K cheaper than a Regal), perhaps because all the dealers are still around but Chevy-only?
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Well, according to Black Book (some inferior equivalent of the Blue Book you have in the US), the thing is worth $9600 (CAD) with normal mileage (at 24K kms/year, you do the math...).vanshmack said:
KBB, with your ZIP code, says 12950 USD if it's in excellent condition. But that's the "starting point" for negotiation, it says...
Right now, I think it's a barely-fair price... but if the thing's been sitting on their lot since September, I assume they'd be willing to bargain some.
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I need to find money and finish exams first.vanshmack said:
KBB does options/mileage, which is probably why it came up higher than your Edmunds. This is a fully-loaded GLS, sunroof, leather, BOSE, heated front seats, stability control (grr, why wasn't that available on any other Ws?), etc.
I see where the extra $$ hit comes from. I didn't even know those cars offered heated seats!VivienM said:I need to find money and finish exams first.
KBB does options/mileage, which is probably why it came up higher than your Edmunds. This is a fully-loaded GLS, sunroof, leather, BOSE, heated front seats, stability control (grr, why wasn't that available on any other Ws?), etc.
Hopefully, it will stick around a while longer, getting cheaper with time, at least until you pull together the scratch to pick it up!
Sounds like we speak the same language in mid-sizers. That car was far superior to the other W's at the time, and even today, I think only the Impala has managed to surpass the Intrigue in terms of dynamics, features, and quality.
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All you do is hate on the Lambda's. The Enclave will do good. If you read message boards people love it. People are thinking of trading their Lexus SUVs for this. A lot of other people can't believe it's a Buick that they actuall like. Your full of crap about it and most of the other things you post about.smk4565 said:
Well they make more profits off of big trucks than the smaller cars. They aren't going to let their best vehicles die out there with new competition for Toyota and always strong Ford. They're working on EII right not and are working on the small Alpha RWD platform. But they should have updated the Cobalt. Hybrids are also coming out to like the GMT900 ones and the Aura and Malibu hybrids should be out in the next few years.
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The Intrigue offered everything. According to the GM service manual, you could even get rear park assist, but that particular example doesn't have it.vanshmack said:
But it had stability control, heated seats, two-tone leather seats (and much better quality/durability leather than other Ws), stability control, Honda-clone interior ergonomics (we can debate whether that's good or bad), BOSE sound, auto climate control, compass in the rear view mirror, and probably other things. The only obviously 'missing' things were HUD and a DIC (grr, I hate that acronym... every time I use it, I can just picture some GM MBA girl laughing).
Hopefully...vanshmack said:
though I must say sometimes I (or rather, my GM-phobic friends) wonder if a gold-coloured Oldsmobile is really a wise choice for a 24 year old dude... Impala doesn't come near the Intrigue in terms of features. The LaCrosse/Allure CXS does (though does it offer a proper premium sound system?)... but the Impala is missing auto climate control, stability control, and probably other things.vanshmack said:
I know the Intrigue half reasonably well... my uncle had a 98 with a 3.8L. Decent enough car, until he fried his transmission and traded it in on an Envoy...
My dad has an 03 Regal, and while it's a perfectly nice car and the 3.8L is a lot cheaper to maintain than the Shortstar (have you seen the procedure for changing an alternator on a Shortstar? now picture someone charging $100/hour to go through it... and you start to get nightmares), it's missing some of the Intrigue features, and styling/ergonomics-wise it's a lot more traditionally-domestic.
The current CTS is 5 more hp, but 8 less torque. I agree that the Aurora lacks power, thus I won't buy a CTS with the same amount of power. The only good thing about the Aurora engine is the V8 sound. The Aura XR sounds really whiny, which makes me not want anything with the 3.6 V6.vanshmack said:
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dont over look all of GMs success, they have the Aura which is now over stocked and will be good to go once SUV sales tank once more. And the new Malibu isnt that far off last I checked so dont be shocked if GM is ready to ride the wave.macphisto said:
the way that I see it is GM just has to work to keep things up long enough for their direct injection, 6 speed autos, two mode hybid systems to be out in numbers.
The Intrigue was a good car too, I had 2 friends that had GLS models. They have pretty good handling and pick up, and Bose, 2 tone, sunroof, leather, heated dual power seats. You get a good amount for your money. They should be cheap now, under $10,000. You can get 01-02 Auroras for under $10,000 here, though they usually have 60-70k miles. But even the 2003 Auroras with less mileage go for $15,000. If looking for a used car the Intrigue and Aurora are good bets. Usually the prices are really low since Olds is dead, better to get an 02 Olds than a 2000 4-banger Accord.
I hate on the Lambdas because they are Yukon sized and gas is $3 per gallon. (and 19/25 mpg is no big deal when the Lexus and Toyota hybrids cost the same and get 32 mpg) But more so because the Equinox and Trailblazer are really dated, and there is no replacement in sight because GM decided they need more 8 seater SUVs. This is what they did in 1998-2002. They pumped everything into trucks, laughed at Toyota's money loser hybrid, and now GM has a weak car lineup, poor image and shrinking sales. GM just plays catch up. For once they should leap frog somebody. All they do well is large trucks.
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GM also does well in making sports cars, large SUV's, and with using their resources for large cars.
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You'll never win over the typical Saab buyer with a Cadillac. It won't happen. They'll lose all Saab sales to Audi or Volvo. And just what do you propose GM sell between Chevy and Cadillac? Saturn?smk4565 said:
There's the common erroneous assumption that Lexus' successful sales figures come from "luxury" cars. Probably 3/4 of Lexus sales come from the ES and RX, which couldn't be in be BMW/Merc territory if they begged and bribed the maitre'd.
The bulk of Lexus, and all of Acura, Volvo, and Infiniti sales are in the "demi-luxe", or upper-middle class segment of the market; customers without the wherewithal for a BMW 5 series, but want something other than the Chevys and Toyotas driven by common rabble. This market segment has grown so rapidly because of changing demographics. The upper-middle-class segment is rapidly growing, and at the expense of the traditional middle class.
Without Buick or Saab, GM will have nothing to field in this arena, unless they plan to just keep selling Cadillac as a "close, but no cigar" brand forever. Not to mention Cadillac's "Art & Science" styling theme won't appeal to more conservative buyers.
Lexus is not in BMW, Jaguar, Mercedes territory. While the LS matches them on paper, but miserably fails to deliver the style and cachet of a luxury car. Lexuses are just very very nice Toyotas. The 3 series may make up half of BMW's sales, but it's BMW's top models that get the recognition and maintain the company's prestige. Say "Lexus" and people think ES and RX. That says it all.
Saturn and Pontiac simply don't have the credibility to compete as "upscale" brands. Saab is well established, and it would take no more than 2 or 3 knockout products and a good marketing campaign to bring Buick's name back from the dead.
This incessant comparison between GM and Toyota needs to stop. Toyota is a "two-trick pony" covering nothing more than the boring mainstream and slightly upscale segments of the market. Toyota has no sporty brand. It has no prestige brand. GM's multiple brands aren't a liability, they're an asset. But GM continually fail to capitalize on this.
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And another thing. I don't buy this "limited resources" crap. Where's all those unholy profits made from 15 years of booming truck and SUV sales? Don't say "legacy costs" either. I'm tired of GM management singing that tune over and over. These costs have been in place for years, but only recently have they been made scapegoat to cover up for gross management incompetence.
If Wagoner & the gang are doing such a great job, like many of you catamitic fans are wont to believe, then where's the money for new product? Why are new products coming in at a slow trickle when the rest of sales are falling like an anvil in freefall? Where are the competent small CUV's, which as far back as 2000 experts predicted would be the new "hot thing"? The Delta and Theta platforms already exist, why weren't they expanded upon? Why was money pumped into Lambda (3 years behind schedule btw), especially if there's no minivan, when it's obvious Lambda wasn't going to sell in the same numbers the GMT360's did? What were the contingency plans in case gas prices skyrocketed? Who in God's name greenlighted the Ion and the Aztek?
If GM makes more money than the entire GDP of Denmark, it's hard to believe "legacy costs" alone are the reason GM can't afford to get products out sooner. The money's going somewhere, and it's apparently not all into product development. Maybe if it were run like a proper car company, instead of some scam (Ditech?), GM wouldn't be in the boat that it's in.
If Wagoner & the gang are doing such a great job, like many of you catamitic fans are wont to believe, then where's the money for new product? Why are new products coming in at a slow trickle when the rest of sales are falling like an anvil in freefall? Where are the competent small CUV's, which as far back as 2000 experts predicted would be the new "hot thing"? The Delta and Theta platforms already exist, why weren't they expanded upon? Why was money pumped into Lambda (3 years behind schedule btw), especially if there's no minivan, when it's obvious Lambda wasn't going to sell in the same numbers the GMT360's did? What were the contingency plans in case gas prices skyrocketed? Who in God's name greenlighted the Ion and the Aztek?
If GM makes more money than the entire GDP of Denmark, it's hard to believe "legacy costs" alone are the reason GM can't afford to get products out sooner. The money's going somewhere, and it's apparently not all into product development. Maybe if it were run like a proper car company, instead of some scam (Ditech?), GM wouldn't be in the boat that it's in.
t-rEX Well said. "Two trick pony."
The brands are an asset, and GM needs to build them up. It can be done. Wiping our choices to the consumer hurts the company...can you say "Oldsmobile debacle?"
GM would lose sales and Toyota would add a brand to pick up new customers.
The brands are an asset, and GM needs to build them up. It can be done. Wiping our choices to the consumer hurts the company...can you say "Oldsmobile debacle?"
GM would lose sales and Toyota would add a brand to pick up new customers.
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