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Bring back Olds? :lmao:

With Cadillac holding and continuing to develop an upscale, technologically savvy image that allows to to compete with European and Asian prestiege makes and Buick slowly, but surely beginning to redefine itself as a uniquely 'American' luxury brand (in a roughly similar vein as Lincoln) exactly where would they fit?

If they become the technological wonderbrand of GM (as Bravada suggested), that would give Cadillac a headache and possibly do harm to its image as a 'prestige' brand. If a new Olds dumbs itself down, it risks encroaching on territory being developed and coveted by Buick and even Saturn. Go sporty and you might as well kill off Pontiac.

Mass-production or low-production, it doesn't matter......there is and there will continue to be no room for a 'new' Oldsmobile.
 

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Bring back Olds? :lmao:

With Cadillac holding and continuing to develop an upscale, technologically savvy image that allows to to compete with European and Asian prestiege makes and Buick slowly, but surely beginning to redefine itself as a uniquely 'American' luxury brand (in a roughly similar vein as Lincoln) exactly where would they fit?

If they become the technological wonderbrand of GM (as Bravada suggested), that would give Cadillac a headache and possibly do harm to its image as a 'prestige' brand. If a new Olds dumbs itself down, it risks encroaching on territory being developed and coveted by Buick and even Saturn. Go sporty and you might as well kill off Pontiac.

Mass-production or low-production, it doesn't matter......there is and there will continue to be no room for a 'new' Oldsmobile.
I agree with most of this, except for the last statement. Clearly another regular brand, Olds or not, would be a bad move. But Olds was always on the forefront of technology, right? Well, what direction is technology moving right now? That's right, alternate propulsion.

Hear me out. I would have GM take a lot of it's unnecessary dealers, and switch them over to a new Geo/Oldsmobile network. Both would be focused on fuel economy and the future of green automotive technology. An EV-2, or sorts, could be involved, as well as Hybrids, PHEVs, Hydrogen cars, diesels, biofuels, ethanol, and maybe even solar if that technology could be perfected. This is also where GM's self-driving car would go in the future. Geo would be the low-end brand, and Oldsmobile as the luxury alternate fuel brand.

This would help clear out some of GM's excess dealers, especially in urban areas where these kinds of cars would be quickly embraced. This would also give GM a place to try out experimental technology on the buying public. At the Oldsmobile/Geo dealerships, all employees would be specially trained to deal with these kinds of vehicles, something you can't get anywhere else.

To have something like this would also drastically increase CAFE numbers. How many PHEVs could they give to Chevy? Not many. Geo/Oldsmobile would give them a place to sell only fuel efficient models. They could have a few small cars that get great mileage with regular engines to bring in young buyers, almost like a Scion of sorts, and these people would then move into the alternate propulsion vehicles. GM would have to join with an oil company to get filling stations around the country up, but I would imagine that the government, especially after the upcoming election, would be willing to help.

GM needs to be on the forefront of technology, and this would allow them to move forward into the future. GM was always the inventor of the greatest automotive technologies, lets keep it that way.

By the way, I only chose Geo because Geo=earth. I think the logo should be the same as the old Geo, except green.
 

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It would be a global brand. It would cary all retro designs, it would be high on technology and old school country club interiors... you would get navigation, bluetooth, onstar, stabilitrack etc standard.. and pay full price...we would not go after volume or perfomance... HP numbers would be advertised as adequate.. etc...
The Cars would be as quite as a tomb... We would not have model years, so it would not matter the year the car was built...
The Smaller vehicles would cater to lower budgets.. there would be plastics and fake wood for HHR etc but the techno factor would be there.. there would be no compromises for the top end models​



Oldsmobile would have only one dealership in a city. So LA would have about 3...New York , about 3...Portland or a smaller city like San Diego 1.. central location...
Service could be provided only exclusively at Buick GMC or Cadillac dealerships in addation to the store of sale...
exclusive and old country club style...
In Europe it would have one dealership per country.. In Japan perhaps 3 or more...They would be run by Oldsmobile itself...Not Dealers.
The Brand would start around US $25,000.00 and go to about $150,000.00...
China would also get 3 dealerships or more as it grows. Korea would get 1 dealership, and India about 1 in each metro area.
Africa would get 5 Dealerships, Jorhanesberg, Cairo, Nairobi and Lagos, that is where money is.
Australia would get two.. Sydney and Canbera​
 

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I've tried a zillion ways to conjure a lineup that would have kept Olds alive, but none were feasible.

Oldsmobile would effectively become a lineup of "niche" models, rather than a progressing lineup.

A possible Olds lineup:

The Groove as a micro/eco entry.

The retro HHR going to GM's oldest brand.

With Saturn gone, Olds would have the Vue, which looked like an Olds anyway

The Salon would be an enlarged Epsilon sedan, à-la Avalon

Zeta SWB Cutlass (sketch courtesy of a GMI member whose name escapes me...)(I also can't read the scribbled signature)



Profile MPV. Stretch it a bit, give it 5+2 seating...



GM would field a single Lambda minivan, the Oldsmobile Silhouette.

And the Zeta/Sigma Aurora, a four-door "Coupe" would top off the range. Replace the Buick styling of this model with Olds styling, and it would do the trick...


(photo from right here on GMI...)


But no matter how I sliced it, there just wasn't room for Oldsmobile.

No matter how interesting the product, the name itself was just too old-hat.
 

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I agree with most of this, except for the last statement. Clearly another regular brand, Olds or not, would be a bad move. But Olds was always on the forefront of technology, right? Well, what direction is technology moving right now? That's right, alternate propulsion.

Hear me out. I would have GM take a lot of it's unnecessary dealers, and switch them over to a new Geo/Oldsmobile network. Both would be focused on fuel economy and the future of green automotive technology. An EV-2, or sorts, could be involved, as well as Hybrids, PHEVs, Hydrogen cars, diesels, biofuels, ethanol, and maybe even solar if that technology could be perfected. This is also where GM's self-driving car would go in the future. Geo would be the low-end brand, and Oldsmobile as the luxury alternate fuel brand.

This would help clear out some of GM's excess dealers, especially in urban areas where these kinds of cars would be quickly embraced. This would also give GM a place to try out experimental technology on the buying public. At the Oldsmobile/Geo dealerships, all employees would be specially trained to deal with these kinds of vehicles, something you can't get anywhere else.

To have something like this would also drastically increase CAFE numbers. How many PHEVs could they give to Chevy? Not many. Geo/Oldsmobile would give them a place to sell only fuel efficient models. They could have a few small cars that get great mileage with regular engines to bring in young buyers, almost like a Scion of sorts, and these people would then move into the alternate propulsion vehicles. GM would have to join with an oil company to get filling stations around the country up, but I would imagine that the government, especially after the upcoming election, would be willing to help.

GM needs to be on the forefront of technology, and this would allow them to move forward into the future. GM was always the inventor of the greatest automotive technologies, lets keep it that way.

By the way, I only chose Geo because Geo=earth. I think the logo should be the same as the old Geo, except green.
Hmm........you've got a good idea going......but I think what would work better is doing another merger and putting Chevy/Oldsmobile/Saturn together (hey.....if Buck/Pontiac/GMC works.....).

Having the Malibu/Aura on the same lot really wouldn't be a problem since both are due for either overhauls or new model intros within the next 5-10yrs (and would thus, be further differentiated I imagine). This would give Saturn access to a much bigger dealer network and benefit GM as a combined Chevy/Saturn network would be a potentially formidable foe in the marketplace.

I believe Olds would be a good fit as a 'retro/niche' brand as mbukukanyau & t-rex suggested and would thus make the new C/O/S network that much more well rounded. You would have value & dependability from Chevrolet, a perfect marriage of nostalgia, technology & class with Olds and upscale elegance w/a dash of euro sportiness from Saturn (roughly akin to the GMC/Pontiac/Buick arrangement)

Once the dealer networks are fully integrated.......lineups could be better adjusted for overlap and if absolutely necessary, models could be cut. Either way........if someone built on this plan and really went to town with it, there might be room for a reborn "Rocket" after all....;)
 

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I put Saturn and Olds together as GM's eco-brands, with Saturn as FWD (except Sky) and Olds as sporty green RWD.

Alero Entry-level sedan, Alpha.
Cutlass Olds bread and butter vehicle, sold as sedan, coupe, convertible, and Cruiser wagon. Alpha.
442 A "green muscle car," Zeta.
Toronado Zeta based personal luxury coupe. I realize Toronado has always been FWD, but I think it should switch in order to fit with the rest of the Olds lineup.
 

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Here's my envisioned Oldsmobile lineup. With Saturn going all hybrid, I have Olds reclaiming it's rightful place in the GM ladder, above the mainstream Chevy and below the luxury Buick.

Oldsmobile Alero - The Opel Astra convertible, to compete with the Mercury Focus convertible coming up soon. Get this out in 2010 (when I have Olds coming back) so that Mercury looks behind.
Oldsmobile Cutlass - Basically, the coupe and "hatchback" versions of the Opel Insignia, with different front end and interior treatments to reflect the fact that it's an Olds.
Oldsmobile Aurora - In my plan, I have Opel adding a new Omega to their lineup, and bring this over as the Aurora.
Oldsmobile 88 - Also in my plan, Opel adds a RWD entry-lux sedan, the Senator, to their lineup. This is the Olds 88 over here.
Oldsmobile 98 - A fully American sedan, the only main Olds car that isn't a rebadged Opel. Comfortable, but not ultra luxurious, so as not to step on the toes of the Park Avenue or Fleetwood.
Oldsmobile Toronado - FWD coupe, retro, based on the original Toronado.
Oldsmobile 442 - Based on the RIA GTO, Olds' other retro car.
Oldsmobile Bravada - The Saturn Outlook rebadged as an Olds, slightly more upscale, but nowhere near the level of luxury found in the Buick Enclave.
 

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not sure if-or-how-much further I'd go
but think it'd actually be a good time to start with one model
ref: "My/Your Ideal 'GM-I' Lineup: GM-Integrated: BPGmc ± ?" thread


^^ click for the other brands, colored charts!, and more info ^^

Cutlass would be shared by Buick, "Cutlass-Insignia" = top-euro-trim +1... or +2,
Pontiac = "Grand Prix" Pkg. (badging optional) = top performance version,
Saturn = plain "Cutlass" (tho not badged as a Saturn),
and ...umm Opel;
the Oldsmobile name would not be resurrected .....yet

edit
"serving-suggestion" for Cutlass front & rear styling by ChaseABryant :)
 

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Oldsmobile should be upscale hybrid-only cars to fight Toyota's Prius Brand


Alero 23k-27k
Gamma II Sedan,hatchback
Bas II 1.4 turbo 4 cyl
70mpg


Achieva 26k-30k
Delta II Sedan
1.4 turbo BAS II, 1.6 turbo BAS II
55-65mpg


Intrigue 32k-37k
Epsillon II SWB sedan
1.6 turbo BAS II
50mpg


Cutlass 38k-44k
Epsillon II LWB sedan
1.6 turbo 2-Mode
50mpg


Aurora 54k-66k
Epsillon II LWB sedan
1.6 turbo E-flex
100mpg
 

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Here's my envisioned Oldsmobile lineup. With Saturn going all hybrid, I have Olds reclaiming it's rightful place in the GM ladder, above the mainstream Chevy and below the luxury Buick.

Oldsmobile Alero - The Opel Astra convertible, to compete with the Mercury Focus convertible coming up soon. Get this out in 2010 (when I have Olds coming back) so that Mercury looks behind.
Oldsmobile Cutlass - Basically, the coupe and "hatchback" versions of the Opel Insignia, with different front end and interior treatments to reflect the fact that it's an Olds.
Oldsmobile Aurora - In my plan, I have Opel adding a new Omega to their lineup, and bring this over as the Aurora.
Oldsmobile 88 - Also in my plan, Opel adds a RWD entry-lux sedan, the Senator, to their lineup. This is the Olds 88 over here.
Oldsmobile 98 - A fully American sedan, the only main Olds car that isn't a rebadged Opel. Comfortable, but not ultra luxurious, so as not to step on the toes of the Park Avenue or Fleetwood.
Oldsmobile Toronado - FWD coupe, retro, based on the original Toronado.
Oldsmobile 442 - Based on the RIA GTO, Olds' other retro car.
Oldsmobile Bravada - The Saturn Outlook rebadged as an Olds, slightly more upscale, but nowhere near the level of luxury found in the Buick Enclave.
I like your lineup you have some good ideas. I just don't like your idea of wanting to make Mercury look behind.
 

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This is moot since Oldsmobile is defunct and GM has no cash..but..IF :

1. Nightey Eight - Use the DTS platform and 6.2L engine from the GMC Denali
2. Toronodo - A 2 door version using the STS platform with the best front wheel drive
capable non Cadillac V8 GM could find.
3. Eighty-Eight : Use the Impala platform and the 5.3L V8
4 Cutlass : Re body and Rebadge a Pontiac GTO or Gwhatever
5. Bravada : Re body and Rebadge the Enclave for an Olds version

...I dont even know why I bother, because this is the same type of thing that got us where we are now....

Its for the best that GM trims down to : Chevy, Buick , Cadillac and GMC for the Commecial trucks only.
 

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I'll play. In an ideal world, where people and banks were responsible with their money, Zeta development did not stop, "Not your father's Olds" was never used, and maybe, somehow, there was room under the GM tent, my view of Oldsmobile would be:

Alero - Compact, smaller than original, 4-cylinder only, went to Delta for 2005 redesign, Delta II for 2010 redesign.

Intrigue - Midsize, went to Epsilon for 2003 redesign, Epsilon II for 2009 redesign (had to be delayed a year for Epsilon II development).

Antares - Fullsize, replaced 88/98/Regency/LSS, first an H-body, but then a Zeta.

Aurora - Large upscale car, continued on G-platform, then went to Zeta.

Bravada - Midsize crossover - went from BOF GMT-360 to perhaps a Sigma platform in a 2006 redesign.

Silhouette - Minivan, the next generation of minivans in a world where GM did not abandon the segment.
 
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