[dindak]

Saturn should have brought this over instead of releasing another of the CSVs. I have always said that. Saturn needs to be a bit different from GM and Opel should have been the source years ago.

 

[vxl]

Why not give it some guts and replace the Vibe with it?

There is a gutsy version. Top speed 140mph 0-60 in 7 seconds.

 

[zl-1]

HMmm..... I guess it won't be soooo bad.
But then... why the heck would you have Outlook then??/

This is much smaller than the Outlook. It is based on the Opel Astra platform.

 

[megeebee]

The Zafira makes much more sense for Saturn than the Relay CSV clone, which I hope dies an early death.

..Ah men to that. I think the Zafira is a natural as a Saturn. Very handsome, and could be marketed as an actual "mini"- van.

 

[gmsickofan]

Wow, that is hot!

 

[gmhashope]

I wonder if Saturn will get a new Lambda based minivan in '08 or if they would get this instead.

 

[Redcoat]

If you search, i have a couple of reviews of the current Zafira and the previous (04) generation Zafira GSi (with the 2.0L Turbo) in the graveyard-quiet Reader Reviews section.

 

[MCGARRETT]

Though there are alot of people that would want this car to come over unchanged, if GM and Saturn are thinking about bringing it over, there are some common sense changes that would have to be made

The styling seems ready made to come over as a Saturn. So there really arent any changes needed there, except for whatever is needed for bumper standards.

I went to the website and got the dimensions for this van because many people seem to be confused about the size of the van, which is hard to determine from just photos.

The Zafira is actually quite small....

The length of the Zafira is 175.9 inches long which makes it much smaller than the Uplander/Relay/Terazza CSVs' which are 204.9 inches long, it actually is smaller than a Cobalt or an ION whch are 180 and 184 inches long. The closest thing that I found to the Zafira in length is a Focus wagon which is 178 inches long. At 65.7 inches high the Zafira is tall, though lower than a CSV which is 70 inches high, which is why I dont think that it will make a decent Vibe replacement.

The Zafira is 70 inches wide, which makes in narrower than the already narrow CSV's which are 72 inches wide, but it's a little wider than a 67 inch wide Cobalt/ION.

For comparison the Zafira is a little smaller than even the Mazda 5 which is 181 inches long, but taller than the 5 which is 64.2 inches tall and wider than the 69.1 inch wide 5.

The Mazda does offer a sliding side door where the Zafira has conventional style doors, which have never been a big hit in the US market with mini-van buyers, see: Colt Vista, Mitsubishi Expo, Honda Oddessy/Isuzu Oasis. Saturn should consider sliding doors as a possible design change.


Performance is another issue, the base model 1.6 litre Zafira takes 13 seconds to get from 0-60, which is pretty darn slow, the Zafira with the engine closest to what would be offered in the US is a Zafira with the 2.2 litre Ecotec and that one takes 10 seconds to get from 0-60, now I am not saying that this thing should be cracking off 4.6 second 0-60 runs, but something in the 7 to 8.5 seconds, maybe even 9 seconds would be a little better. I am guessing that the American Zafira would have to come standard with the 2.4 litre VVT ECOtec 4 cylinder from the Solstice, which makes 177hp. The Mazda comes with a 2.3 litre with a 157hp.

The performance for models with the 1.9 litre diesel engine are not that bad for a MPV, they go about 11 seconds from 0-60.

The best performing Zafira is the VXR model, which runs impressive 7.2 second 0-60 times, but it is the mose expensive model in the line.

The Zafira does also have a small gas tank for US consumption, it is 12 gallons, which makes it smaller than 13 gallon tanks on the Cobalt and ION, and smaller than the 15 gallon tank found on the Mazda 5.

Price is another issue, given current exchange rates, Pound for Dollar, the base 12,995(Pound) 1.6 litre Zafira is $22,997 in USD, and the top of the range Zafira VXR goes for 21,995(Pounds) in the UK, which would make it a $38,924 MPV over here! Yikes, thats Yukon money. (And thats for the base model, I built up a loaded 28,270Pound VXR with color nav, DVD, park sensors, 19 inch wheels,etc....thats a $50,029 in USD)


The Mazda 5 starts at $17,435, a base Chevrolet Uplander starts at $21,250. For Saturn to really make the Zafira work, it would have to, ideally, undercut the price of the 5 and start at $16,995 for the base version, and top out at no more that $25-26,000 for the top of the line models. Saturn should offer a VXR style RedLine edition with the 205hp Supercharged 2.0 litre ECOtec, again, no more than $25,000-$26,000.

 

[Toto]

Car buying in Europe is very expensive. That is one reason why Chevrolet (rebadged Daewoos) are growing so fast in Europe.

I agree with you that the most available engines make no sense for the US market. But dont forget we are paying $6 for a galon here in Germany. It makes more sense to take a smaller engine and dont look how fast is the time from 0 to 62 mph.

 

[DuSpinnst]

Car buying in Europe is very expensive. That is one reason why Chevrolet (rebadged Daewoos) are growing so fast in Europe.

I agree with you that the most available engines make no sense for the US market. But dont forget we are paying $6 for a galon here in Germany. It makes more sense to take a smaller engine and dont look how fast is the time from 0 to 62 mph.

I'd actually like to see some of the Euro engines over here. The sub-compact segment needs them.

 

[Toto]

:nono: No.

Here is my offer, Opel get a V8 for the GT and you can select a engine of your choice.

I'd actually like to see some of the Euro engines over here. The sub-compact segment needs them.

 

[jckjds]

I like most of your suggestions, McG.

Most importantly, it WOULD need sliding doors. I don't know what the rear seat leg room is like, but the second row would need to be enough for adults, while the third row could be a little smaller, with Child-only legroom. If that means stretching this a bit, then that would be necessary.

I would like to see the 2.2 or 2.4 base with the 2.0 SC as an option, as you said. My only concern would be whether this would be enough power if the vehicle was loaded with passengers and/or cargo. Really, minivan buyers don't care about power as long as there is enough for A to B driving. The 2.4 and 2.0SC should be plenty, but I'm not sure about the 2.2. Gas mileage is very important to minivan buyers, and this would get substantially better mileage than the traditional minivan.

If priced competively with the 5, it would sell.

I would definitely make a Saturn and Pontiac version because Saturn does not have a dealership network that effectively covers all markets. Adding PBG dealers would give the vehicle a lot of needed exposure. Plus, such a sporty minivan is fitting for Pontiac's image and would not overlap too much with Buick's CSV or next gen van.

 

[DanCBJMS1988]

This would be so cool as a Saturn. The Zafira is one of the best MPVs I've seen. If Saturn wanted a traditional Relay-sized minivan, why not the Vivaro? Oh yes, I forgot, Vivaro is French, because it's based off of the Trafic, oh well. Anyway, the Zafira is nice, so maybe the Meriva could also be offered as a smaller MPV to complement the Zafira?

 

[Toto]

The Meriva based on the Opel Corsa, a realy tiny car. Is a market there in the US for that kind of a little car?

This would be so cool as a Saturn. The Zafira is one of the best MPVs I've seen. If Saturn wanted a traditional Relay-sized minivan, why not the Vivaro? Oh yes, I forgot, Vivaro is French, because it's based off of the Trafic, oh well. Anyway, the Zafira is nice, so maybe the Meriva could also be offered as a smaller MPV to complement the Zafira?

 

[DanCBJMS1988]

Well, if the Aveo and Mini Cooper sells well here, plus the coming of the Nissan Tiida and the Honda Jazz, as well as the possibility of the Ford Fiesta making its way north of the Rio Grande, then why not?

 

[jckjds]

The Meriva based on the Opel Corsa, a realy tiny car. Is a market there in the US for that kind of a little car?

I doubt it. Small CARS sell because people need transportation. They're cheap, economical, and sometimes sporty. A VAN as small as the Meriva would compare very unfavorably with US buyers because it is too small to serve our perceived needs and more expensive than a hatch (which is cooler and almost as practical but without the dowdy van image).

Vans here are, of course, quite large. The Zafira is very small and would really be pushing the envelope. I think GM could find enough borderline van buyers to make a go of it with the Zafira (i.e. those people with two or three kids who want more seating, but don't need a larger mini-van) I doubt the Meriva would go over well at this time. People would rather have a small hatch than a very small van.

 

[Chrome355Z]

Eliminate Saturn. Bring over Opel. The name in itself will sell among the "Foreign" crowd I would guess AMAZINGLY well. Could be a saving grace for GM. Although, not my cup of tea. I'll take a 07 Tahoe please...

 

[Toto]

I don't think that it is a good idea to bring Opel over. Here in Europe you pay for a Opel a premium price, like Volkswagen. It is not a cheap brand. I think Saturn with a little bit Opel inside is the better choice.

Eliminate Saturn. Bring over Opel. The name in itself will sell among the "Foreign" crowd I would guess AMAZINGLY well. Could be a saving grace for GM. ...

 

[GMFAN85]

Also. Opels being shipped into the US would have a hard time competing with cars in the same class then those sold in Europe since the Euro/Dollar exchange would make each vehicle more expensive for us to own.

Saturn also has a great dealer network and everyone, even the people who don't buy Saturns know this to be true. Why not keep the name brand, infuse it with great looking, european-like models built in the US and Canada at a fraction of the cost? Why do you think brands like Mercedes, BMW, VW, and the rest have built and/ or are building factories in the US? Because it would be much cheaper to do so.

Simple Economics.

 

[Toto]

Amusingly that many cars from German brands like BMW, Mercedes and Volkswagen are much cheaper and are better equipped in the US.

Also. Opels being shipped into the US would have a hard time competing with cars in the same class then those sold in Europe since the Euro/Dollar exchange would make each vehicle more expensive for us to own.

Saturn also has a great dealer network and everyone, even the people who don't buy Saturns know this to be true. Why not keep the name brand, infuse it with great looking, european-like models built in the US and Canada at a fraction of the cost? Why do you think brands like Mercedes, BMW, VW, and the rest have built and/ or are building factories in the US? Because it would be much cheaper to do so.

Simple Economics.