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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
More EVs on the road mean more will be needing service and maintenance from dealerships. Manufacturers are ramping up safety training for technicians.

AUTOMOTIVE NEWS

August 01, 2022 12:00 AM 4 HOURS AGO



Working on an electric vehicle isn't just a matter of popping the hood, disconnecting a few cables and burying your head and hands inside. There's safety involved as well, as service technician Julio Hernandez knows.

Hernandez, a platinum-level service technician, is the first EV-certified technician at Rick Case Hyundai Davie in a Fort Lauderdale suburb. His brave new world requires precise training to avoid damaging a vehicle and, by extension, risking a service technician's life.

"What we need to worry about are the hazards of the car," said Mark Perry, the dealership's service director. "If you are clocking 240 volts, it could kill you. There are big rubber gloves we have to wear. There is a safety helmet with goggles to protect them. We have a set of insulated tools.

The threat of shock is very real."
It's not just brands such as Tesla that are electrifying around the globe. Mainstream automakers including Hyundai, Kia, Ford and General Motors also are producing EVs. And these manufacturers realize the need to train their dealership service technicians.

Global inspection company Dekra North America predicts electric and hybrid vehicles will account for 32 percent of the U.S. automotive market by 2030 and 45 percent five years later.
The company offers practical training in the field, including high-voltage training for vehicle manufacturers in the U.S. The course structure is customized for the automaker's specific needs and offers training on:

  • Finding and identifying high-voltage parts.
  • Working safely within the confines of the part locations.
  • Determining whether a vehicle's power has been discharged.
  • Discharging procedures.
  • Using personal protective equipment.
  • Maintaining appropriate safety equipment.
  • Following proper first aid and emergency procedures.
The training begins with the basics: components, such as capacitors; the battery itself; measurement instruments; PPE; and legal regulations. The company focuses on the risks of high-voltage EVs and the safe behavior required while working on or near them.

Additionally, the course teaches how to find a fault within the battery and how to handle and repair damaged and wrecked high-voltage vehicles.




Taking the lead
Hyundai spokesperson Miles Johnson said "no one should touch an EV unless they're at least certified on EV safety." Hyundai mandates an online course for all techs on a certification path.
"We take safety very seriously and won't certify dealers to sell or offer warranty service on EVs unless they've completed this course," Johnson said.

The company has additional requirements for servicing EVs, including several layers of in-person training.
Much of Hyundai's training is safety-related.

"It's about making sure people won't hurt themselves [or the vehicle], and the best way to do that is in person, working side by side with an instructor on these high-voltage systems in a safe environment," he said.
Service technicians at Kia dealerships must be trained similarly. Before taking high-voltage courses, technicians must complete five web-based training classes. These are followed by five days of instruction on electrical diagnosis using Kia tools at a Kia training center.

"The two-day High Voltage Technologies 1 course provides an overview of hybrid, plug-in hybrid and electric vehicles, including high-voltage components and systems," said James Bell, Kia's director of corporate communications. "In the two-day High Voltage Technologies 2 course, technicians apply what they learned to complete hands-on practical activities."

Kia requires all participating dealerships to have at least two certified technicians.

Certification is vital
Ford is another mainstream brand being proactive with EV certification. As with other dealerships, Ford franchisees must be EV-certified before selling and servicing EV models.

"The training is specific to the battery and the high-voltage components of the battery, and that's why we are requiring that certification, said Elizabeth Tarquinto, manager of technical support operations at Ford.

"If they are going to be able to do any work on the battery itself, they must take this class. It's from a safety perspective, mainly," she said.
The program involves a mixture of web-based and classroom lessons at one of 40 Ford training centers across the country.

"We want them to have hands-on experience with the battery," Tarquinto said. "We are even utilizing some augmented reality technology to do some of this training. From there, technicians can move to advanced electronics and high-voltage training."

Ford maintains 10 technical support operation managers across the U.S. to support field service engineers and its training department.

As the rollout of EVs hasn't been as fluid as hoped because of supply chain issues plaguing nearly all manufacturers, servicing has taken a slower approach.

"We will adjust it to our volume, but right now, we are requiring at least one certified technician per dealership that sells our EVs," Tarquinto said. "Of course, if you are servicing hundreds of electrical vehicles, you will need more than one technician."

Hernandez, the Hyundai service tech, said there will be more and more EVs on the streets in the coming months and years, and some of those vehicles will come to his service bay.

"Working on these vehicles will require more experience because of the electricity involved," he said. "I never thought that to be an automotive tech, I would need to train like a power company lineman."

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Obviously gonna need a hard hard hat & good pair of Snap-On rubber gloves with a lifetime guarantee (a bit longer than they guy has in the photo, arms & elbows still look a bit exposed), and rubber/nylon faced hammer if you want a lifetime guarantee of a job as a EV mechanic.

Ford uses 400v battery architecture on the Lightning, Mach E & Transit E, sound like enough to singe the hair or give you an afro hair.

Don't think l would be into the high voltage rapid DC chargers without some rubber gloves on, they kill the batteries lifespan longevity a bit as well.

Seeing a few EV's being charged up outside terraced homes near me, with one or two 240v AC extension lead chained together looks a dangerous trip hazard as well, always wonder how they get on when it rains.

Would want a keep an EV in garage, so probably not charge it up more tan 80% just to be safe.

Shocking to hear most dealerships only have between one or two trained EV techs, can just imagine if the workloads got stretched a bit, l certainly would not run around like headless chicken, obviously the dealers will need to train up more of it's staff, and initially pay them a little bit extra for being more flexible.
 

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Awesome FUD you are posting.

Just like there are no charging stations, so it's hard charge your car on the road, and there are so few EV cars, it's stupid to install charging stations everywhere.

Shouldn't buy a diesel vehicle, because there are so few diesel-certified technicians.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Awesome FUD you are posting.

Just like there are no charging stations, so it's hard charge your car on the road, and there are so few EV cars, it's stupid to install charging stations everywhere.

Shouldn't buy a diesel vehicle, because there are so few diesel-certified technicians.
It's on Automotive News, in the news so l posted it, no point in ignoring the facts it's the quickest way to meet the undertaker your maker if you don't do safety Davester. Know a few electricians that have been killed by shocks over the years, it happens. It's normally the ones that think that they know-it-all that become complacent, are most at risk.

EV's will be mainstream after 2035 in Europe, you won't be able to buy a new diesel you are absolutely right Davester, this is more about electrical safety first.

Electric vehicle drivers in the UK are risking DEATH by charging their car from their home's powerful mains supply, charity warns
  • The survey of over 1,500 car users included both electric and hybrid cars
  • 75 per cent charge at home using multiple extensions not suitable for outdoors
  • This could lead to electric shocks as well as electric fires warned the charity
  • Car users say the lack of public charging points near home is to blame
  • Growth of electric vehicles is six times faster than public charging points



A shocking survey has found that 74 per cent of electric car (pictured) owners who charge their vehicles at home are risking electrocution and electric fires from dangerous charging practices


Electrical Safety First (ESF), a consumer protection charity that commissioned the study, is urging the government to build more public charging points.

This comes as the number of plug-in vehicles in the UK grows at six times the rate of public charging ports over the last five years.

In a survey of 1,500 electric vehicle owners, that included both electric and hybrid cars, 74 per cent said they had charged their cars at home using multiple socket extensions to reach their vehicle.

Of those who admitted to doing so, the majority - 75 per cent - admitted to 'daisy chaining'.
This common practice is particularly dangerous for charging vehicles.
Half of electric car users said they left cables running to their vehicle when it’s been raining outside.

Writing on its website, ESF said: 'Daisy-chaining is advised against in all circumstances due to the heightened risk of electric shock and even fire that it brings about.'
Vehicle owners are being urged to use government grants to buy special charging extensions for electric cars.

These are deemed much safer than plugging in directly from home mains.
ESF's website also states: 'Never use a domestic multi socket extension lead when charging your electric vehicle.

'If you do need to use an extension lead only ever use one that is suitable for outdoor use such as a reel cable.'


The practice is widespread despite nine out of of ten owners saying they knew that home extension leads should not be used outside (stock image)

A separate reported that the number of electric car charging points in the UK has in fact just overtaken the number of petrol stations for the first time – with more than 1,000 in Scotland.
There are now 8,590 places across the country where drivers can charge an electric vehicle, against 8,400 petrol stations.

Electric cars constitute only one per cent of all road vehicles but there are efforts to create infrastructure designed to make owning an electric car less arduous.
A lack of charging points, long-wait times and small ranges have limited the spread of electric cars despite their rapid growth.

The Government has set a goal for all cars to be effectively zero emission by 2040.
However, MPs on the climate change committee are calling for the date of the ban on the sale of polluting cars to be brought forward a decade from its current target of 2040.
It says the UK must get stop selling traditional diesel and petrol cars by 2030 because electric vehicles will match them by then.

However, MPs warn that restrictions in obtaining the required natural resources for the batteries, mainly the element cobalt, means the 2030 may be missed.

It is therefore expected to recommend 2035 as the latest possible date.
Issues with rolling out battery-powered cars, according to previous recommendations from the committee, focus on a lack of charging points.

Mary Creagh, chair of the environment audit committee, told the BBC: 'Ministers are useless.
'They seem to think the market will miraculous provide charging point and the government has no job to regulate charging points.'

Current targets in England mean internal combustion engines will still be n the road in 2050, producing large amounts of greenhouse gases.

HOW TO CHARGE ELECTRIC CARS SAFELY
Never use a domestic multi socket extension lead when charging your electric vehicle. If you do need to use an extension lead only ever use one that is suitable for outdoor use such as a reel cable.

Never ‘daisy-chain’ extension leads. The method of plugging more than one extension lead into another in order to reach a greater distance increases the risk of an electrical fire as well as electric shock.

Always buy your charging cable from a reputable retailer or directly from the manufacturer who will put such products through rigorous tests to ensure they meet UK safety standards.
Ensure you frequently check your charging cable for wear and tear and replace it if any damage is evident.

If you are charging from a 13A mains socket in your home, ensure the wiring in your property has been checked prior to doing so. Old wiring may not be able to cope with the demand from charging your vehicle overnight and risk a fire in your property.

The safest and most convenient way to charge your vehicle at home is through a dedicated wall box charging point. Ensure this is installed by a qualified, registered and competent electrician only. Use our ‘find an electrician’ page to locate one near you.

Take advantage of the on-going Government schemes aimed at relieving consumers of some of the cost linked to the installation of a home charging point.
Source: Electrical Safety First

LINK

Neighbour a few doors along has a Nissan Leaf alway daisy chains extension lead from a 240v ac point in the home, that's the way l see most people charge up their EV's.

Electrical Safety First
 

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It's on Automotive News, in the news so l posted it, no point in ignoring the facts it's the quickest way to meet the undertaker your maker if you don't do safety Davester. Know a few electricians that have been killed by shocks over the years, it happens. It's normally the ones that think that they know-it-all that become complacent, are most at risk.

EV's will be mainstream after 2035 in Europe, you won't be able to buy a new diesel you are absolutely right Davester, this is more about electrical safety first.

Electric vehicle drivers in the UK are risking DEATH by charging their car from their home's powerful mains supply, charity warns
  • The survey of over 1,500 car users included both electric and hybrid cars
  • 75 per cent charge at home using multiple extensions not suitable for outdoors
  • This could lead to electric shocks as well as electric fires warned the charity
  • Car users say the lack of public charging points near home is to blame
  • Growth of electric vehicles is six times faster than public charging points



A shocking survey has found that 74 per cent of electric car (pictured) owners who charge their vehicles at home are risking electrocution and electric fires from dangerous charging practices


Electrical Safety First (ESF), a consumer protection charity that commissioned the study, is urging the government to build more public charging points.

This comes as the number of plug-in vehicles in the UK grows at six times the rate of public charging ports over the last five years.

In a survey of 1,500 electric vehicle owners, that included both electric and hybrid cars, 74 per cent said they had charged their cars at home using multiple socket extensions to reach their vehicle.

Of those who admitted to doing so, the majority - 75 per cent - admitted to 'daisy chaining'.
This common practice is particularly dangerous for charging vehicles.
Half of electric car users said they left cables running to their vehicle when it’s been raining outside.

Writing on its website, ESF said: 'Daisy-chaining is advised against in all circumstances due to the heightened risk of electric shock and even fire that it brings about.'
Vehicle owners are being urged to use government grants to buy special charging extensions for electric cars.

These are deemed much safer than plugging in directly from home mains.
ESF's website also states: 'Never use a domestic multi socket extension lead when charging your electric vehicle.

'If you do need to use an extension lead only ever use one that is suitable for outdoor use such as a reel cable.'


The practice is widespread despite nine out of of ten owners saying they knew that home extension leads should not be used outside (stock image)

A separate reported that the number of electric car charging points in the UK has in fact just overtaken the number of petrol stations for the first time – with more than 1,000 in Scotland.
There are now 8,590 places across the country where drivers can charge an electric vehicle, against 8,400 petrol stations.

Electric cars constitute only one per cent of all road vehicles but there are efforts to create infrastructure designed to make owning an electric car less arduous.
A lack of charging points, long-wait times and small ranges have limited the spread of electric cars despite their rapid growth.

The Government has set a goal for all cars to be effectively zero emission by 2040.
However, MPs on the climate change committee are calling for the date of the ban on the sale of polluting cars to be brought forward a decade from its current target of 2040.
It says the UK must get stop selling traditional diesel and petrol cars by 2030 because electric vehicles will match them by then.

However, MPs warn that restrictions in obtaining the required natural resources for the batteries, mainly the element cobalt, means the 2030 may be missed.

It is therefore expected to recommend 2035 as the latest possible date.
Issues with rolling out battery-powered cars, according to previous recommendations from the committee, focus on a lack of charging points.

Mary Creagh, chair of the environment audit committee, told the BBC: 'Ministers are useless.
'They seem to think the market will miraculous provide charging point and the government has no job to regulate charging points.'

Current targets in England mean internal combustion engines will still be n the road in 2050, producing large amounts of greenhouse gases.

HOW TO CHARGE ELECTRIC CARS SAFELY
Never use a domestic multi socket extension lead when charging your electric vehicle. If you do need to use an extension lead only ever use one that is suitable for outdoor use such as a reel cable.

Never ‘daisy-chain’ extension leads. The method of plugging more than one extension lead into another in order to reach a greater distance increases the risk of an electrical fire as well as electric shock.

Always buy your charging cable from a reputable retailer or directly from the manufacturer who will put such products through rigorous tests to ensure they meet UK safety standards.
Ensure you frequently check your charging cable for wear and tear and replace it if any damage is evident.

If you are charging from a 13A mains socket in your home, ensure the wiring in your property has been checked prior to doing so. Old wiring may not be able to cope with the demand from charging your vehicle overnight and risk a fire in your property.

The safest and most convenient way to charge your vehicle at home is through a dedicated wall box charging point. Ensure this is installed by a qualified, registered and competent electrician only. Use our ‘find an electrician’ page to locate one near you.

Take advantage of the on-going Government schemes aimed at relieving consumers of some of the cost linked to the installation of a home charging point.
Source: Electrical Safety First

LINK

Neighbour a few doors along has a Nissan Leaf alway daisy chains extension lead from a 240v ac point in the home, that's the way l see most people charge up their EV's.

Electrical Safety First
All I can think of is the scene from A Christmas Story when Dad blows a fuse when he lit the Christmas tree :ROFLMAO:

Flash photography Fireworks Gas Fire Heat
 

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I went up to Denver for a Kenny Chesney concert on Saturday, the city is full of Teslas. The state bird of Colorado has been the Subaru station wagon for a long time, Tesla is going to take that crown. I was shocked at how many were on the road. All the issues with EV’s need to be addressed now, they’re going to take over.
 

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2014 BMW 320i; 2015 Chevy Spark EV (wife's car)
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Shocking to hear most dealerships only have between one or two trained EV techs, can just imagine if the workloads got stretched a bit, l certainly would not run around like headless chicken, obviously the dealers will need to train up more of it's staff, and initially pay them a little bit extra for being more flexible.
Non-automotive fields such as elevator repair (that's what I do for a living) offer higher starting pay and more extensive training and apprenticeship opportunities for folks willing and able to do high voltage electrical work.

The shortage of EV techs isn't going away anytime soon; in fact, it's only getting more pronounced.
 

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It's on Automotive News, in the news so l posted it, no point in ignoring the facts it's the quickest way to meet the undertaker your maker if you don't do safety Davester. Know a few electricians that have been killed by shocks over the years, it happens. It's normally the ones that think that they know-it-all that become complacent, are most at risk.

EV's will be mainstream after 2035 in Europe, you won't be able to buy a new diesel you are absolutely right Davester, this is more about electrical safety first.

Electric vehicle drivers in the UK are risking DEATH by charging their car from their home's powerful mains supply, charity warns
  • The survey of over 1,500 car users included both electric and hybrid cars
  • 75 per cent charge at home using multiple extensions not suitable for outdoors
  • This could lead to electric shocks as well as electric fires warned the charity
  • Car users say the lack of public charging points near home is to blame
  • Growth of electric vehicles is six times faster than public charging points



A shocking survey has found that 74 per cent of electric car (pictured) owners who charge their vehicles at home are risking electrocution and electric fires from dangerous charging practices


Electrical Safety First (ESF), a consumer protection charity that commissioned the study, is urging the government to build more public charging points.

This comes as the number of plug-in vehicles in the UK grows at six times the rate of public charging ports over the last five years.

In a survey of 1,500 electric vehicle owners, that included both electric and hybrid cars, 74 per cent said they had charged their cars at home using multiple socket extensions to reach their vehicle.

Of those who admitted to doing so, the majority - 75 per cent - admitted to 'daisy chaining'.
This common practice is particularly dangerous for charging vehicles.
Half of electric car users said they left cables running to their vehicle when it’s been raining outside.

Writing on its website, ESF said: 'Daisy-chaining is advised against in all circumstances due to the heightened risk of electric shock and even fire that it brings about.'
Vehicle owners are being urged to use government grants to buy special charging extensions for electric cars.

These are deemed much safer than plugging in directly from home mains.
ESF's website also states: 'Never use a domestic multi socket extension lead when charging your electric vehicle.

'If you do need to use an extension lead only ever use one that is suitable for outdoor use such as a reel cable.'


The practice is widespread despite nine out of of ten owners saying they knew that home extension leads should not be used outside (stock image)

A separate reported that the number of electric car charging points in the UK has in fact just overtaken the number of petrol stations for the first time – with more than 1,000 in Scotland.
There are now 8,590 places across the country where drivers can charge an electric vehicle, against 8,400 petrol stations.

Electric cars constitute only one per cent of all road vehicles but there are efforts to create infrastructure designed to make owning an electric car less arduous.
A lack of charging points, long-wait times and small ranges have limited the spread of electric cars despite their rapid growth.

The Government has set a goal for all cars to be effectively zero emission by 2040.
However, MPs on the climate change committee are calling for the date of the ban on the sale of polluting cars to be brought forward a decade from its current target of 2040.
It says the UK must get stop selling traditional diesel and petrol cars by 2030 because electric vehicles will match them by then.

However, MPs warn that restrictions in obtaining the required natural resources for the batteries, mainly the element cobalt, means the 2030 may be missed.

It is therefore expected to recommend 2035 as the latest possible date.
Issues with rolling out battery-powered cars, according to previous recommendations from the committee, focus on a lack of charging points.

Mary Creagh, chair of the environment audit committee, told the BBC: 'Ministers are useless.
'They seem to think the market will miraculous provide charging point and the government has no job to regulate charging points.'

Current targets in England mean internal combustion engines will still be n the road in 2050, producing large amounts of greenhouse gases.

HOW TO CHARGE ELECTRIC CARS SAFELY
Never use a domestic multi socket extension lead when charging your electric vehicle. If you do need to use an extension lead only ever use one that is suitable for outdoor use such as a reel cable.

Never ‘daisy-chain’ extension leads. The method of plugging more than one extension lead into another in order to reach a greater distance increases the risk of an electrical fire as well as electric shock.

Always buy your charging cable from a reputable retailer or directly from the manufacturer who will put such products through rigorous tests to ensure they meet UK safety standards.
Ensure you frequently check your charging cable for wear and tear and replace it if any damage is evident.

If you are charging from a 13A mains socket in your home, ensure the wiring in your property has been checked prior to doing so. Old wiring may not be able to cope with the demand from charging your vehicle overnight and risk a fire in your property.

The safest and most convenient way to charge your vehicle at home is through a dedicated wall box charging point. Ensure this is installed by a qualified, registered and competent electrician only. Use our ‘find an electrician’ page to locate one near you.

Take advantage of the on-going Government schemes aimed at relieving consumers of some of the cost linked to the installation of a home charging point.
Source: Electrical Safety First

LINK

Neighbour a few doors along has a Nissan Leaf alway daisy chains extension lead from a 240v ac point in the home, that's the way l see most people charge up their EV's.

Electrical Safety First
Thanks for the three-year-old article. It is an education to see what charging cables and plugs used to look like in Europe.
 

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I went up to Denver for a Kenny Chesney concert on Saturday, the city is full of Teslas. The state bird of Colorado has been the Subaru station wagon for a long time, Tesla is going to take that crown. I was shocked at how many were on the road. All the issues with EV’s need to be addressed now, they’re going to take over.
Chicago, too.
Out here in Podunk, there are still more Volts than anything.
 

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Thanks for the three-year-old article.
The quote below from the 2019 Daily Mail article Oldsmobile Stopped shared in post #3 remains true in 2022, in the U.K. and elsewhere.

Daily Mail said:
A lack of charging points, long-wait times and small ranges have limited the spread of electric cars despite their rapid growth.
 

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Look, folks, no worries! I am in cahoots with well known electrical engineer and fashion designer Madam Giggawatt, working on protective clothing. So it'll go like this.
Rubber sole shoes. (Not to be confused with the Beatles album Rubber Soul.)
Rubber gloves.
Rubber underwear. Those can do double duty in case something too exciting happens, they can catch any excess precious bodily fluids which could possibly expel violently during a Charging Event.
A High Fashion Faux Tail, which will consist of a bare copper wire wrapped twice around the victim's, excuse me technicians' waist, then out the back of his drawws and down to the floor where it can drag along in order to ground off any electrical events which might occur. This wire can be covered by various fake furs in case the tech happens to identify as a forest or jungle animal.
A metal helmet with triple clear face shields and dual antennae to catch any broadcasts should Mr. Spock be transmitting..
An aluminum jacket with aluminum strips hanging off, a fashion statement harking back to the leather fringe jackets from the '70s.
Optional facial tattoos saying "I'M WIRED!" or "440 LIVE!" or other clever little hints that the tech is in fact an electrical expert.

Please, let's just keep this between the two of us until Madam Giggawatt and I get all this stuff patented. I'll be rich! Rich!
 

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Please, let's just keep this between the two of us until Madam Giggawatt and I get all this stuff patented. I'll be rich! Rich!
No problem Neanderthal. What does Madam Giggawatt think of this rubber wristband?

 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
As long as you're not shocked by the DC-DC converter, HV battery pack, inverter, cabling, or AC motor, you're good.




You certainly have enough current flowing though the charge cables to potentially give you a nasty shock, you certainly need to check you charging cables for cuts & chaffing before you use them, extension lead daisy chained at home outside that's lethal, and a trip hazard.

DC is lethal the current is constant, AC can still kill though.

Government are legislating in electric cars, it should be both doing more to target better help with costs of installing proper installation of a standardised safe charging point when somebody buys a new EV like you say where do you suddenly find so many enough experienced qualified electricians to install them all, at the end of the day it's the taxpayers that footing the bill in most cases.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Look, folks, no worries! I am in cahoots with well known electrical engineer and fashion designer Madam Giggawatt, working on protective clothing. So it'll go like this.
Rubber sole shoes. (Not to be confused with the Beatles album Rubber Soul.)
Rubber gloves.
Rubber underwear. Those can do double duty in case something too exciting happens, they can catch any excess bodily fluids which could possibly expel violently during a Charging Event.
A High Fashion Faux Tail, which will consist of a bare copper wire wrapped twice around the victim's, excuse me technicians' waist, then out the back of his drawws and down to the floor where it can drag along in order to ground off any electrical events which might occur. This wire can be covered by various fake furs in case the tech happens to identify as a forest or jungle animal.
A metal helmet with triple clear face shields and dual antennae to catch any broadcasts should Mr. Spock be transmitting..
An aluminum jacket with aluminum strips hanging off, a fashion statement harking back to the leather fringe jackets from the '70s.
Optional facial tattoos saying "I'M WIRED!" or "440 LIVE!" or other clever little hints that the tech is in fact an electrical expert.

Please, let's just keep this between the two of us until Madam Giggawatt and I get all this stuff patented. I'll be rich! Rich!
LOL

This all sounds a bit suspect, a bit kinky.

I bet DeeAgeAux that posts on here, is into all this has already beaten you to it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·


German EV breakdown assistance team are already safely geared up
 
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