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Keep in mind that EVs are less efficient on the highway. An EV with 300 mile EPA range will get about 250 miles highway. Then you need about 80-90% safety factory so in reality you only have about 200-220 miles useable range. So yes you need a 300 mile EV to make that trip safely.
And............... cold weather?


Some people don't really have a train option.

But it isn't about your USUAL daily travel anyways. It's about your MAXIMUM daily travel. If I need to drive further one day, I need more range. I need a range to cover any potential driving I may have on ANY day.
Exactly; he knows this!.............

For my weekend day trips to Napa wine country, I go between 190-225 miles, depending on route.
I still say the "Achilles Heel" is the ability and speed of (partial) recharges, at affordable pricing.
 
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UItiums genius is in its flexibility. They completely re-invented how vehicles are built. HUMMER EV and Lyriq are so different, yet same platform.
The Hummer EV and Lyriq are the "same platform"?
 

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Yes, they are built of Ultium. Remember, Platform and Chassis’s are different things. You already knew that no?
Ultium is a battery technology, but yeah - they are both built on a battery platform.
 
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Just remember the Ultium cells are essentially off-the-shelf LG cells. It's the packaging and the technology that GM engineers AROUND the cell and how it's integrated and packaged that make it GM-specific.

Ultium is the "platform." It's also the name of the battery cell. I think there's about 18 or so Ultium configurations, the largest being in the HUMMER.

GM isn't the only one with a dedicated "platform" either. Tesla, Lucid, VW/Audi, Mercedes have their own. Though the Germans are reusing legacy ICE platforms in some cases, like the BMW i4, while the iX is a new BEV platform.

Each automaker is also developing a technology platform to sit on top of their platform. GM calls their Ultifi. Tesla has their AI Cloud. Lucid has their own. Etc.
 

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Just remember the Ultium cells are essentially off-the-shelf LG cells. It's the packaging and the technology that GM engineers AROUND the cell and how it's integrated and packaged that make it GM-specific.

Ultium is the "platform." It's also the name of the battery cell. I think there's about 18 or so Ultium configurations, the largest being in the HUMMER.

GM isn't the only one with a dedicated "platform" either. Tesla, Lucid, VW/Audi, Mercedes have their own. Though the Germans are reusing legacy ICE platforms in some cases, like the BMW i4, while the iX is a new BEV platform.

Each automaker is also developing a technology platform to sit on top of their platform. GM calls their Ultifi. Tesla has their AI Cloud. Lucid has their own. Etc.
No, Ultium cells are not LG off the shelf cells. The Chemistry is GM proprietary, GM is the only automaker with extensive battery chemistry patents, beg from the volt days. LG brings cell manufacturing know how.
part of their strategy is to own their own technology.


In addition, GM has particular expertise in cel packs l construction, which LG doesn’t have, given with Bolt, LG packs were the problem, not GM’s.


The Volt batteries had lots of DOE chemistry, (funded by )but developed by GM. So, no LG doesn’t own GM battery chemistry.

Panasonic owns Tesla’s battery Chemistry, but eBen Tesla is working hard to own it’s own Chemistry
 

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The Volt batteries had lots of DOE chemistry, (funded by )but developed by GM. So, no LG doesn’t own GM battery chemistry.

Panasonic owns Tesla’s battery Chemistry, but eBen Tesla is working hard to own it’s own Chemistry
GM has thousands of patents it doesn't use.

There are patents but also trade secrets.

Just about every automaker that comes out with an electric vehicle claims they have a unique cell or chemistry working closely with a cell maker.

Unless someone does a tear down and does an analysis I am not inclined to believe or disbelieve that Ultium cells are unique from LG cells.

At the end of the day they either offer an advantage to the consumer or they don't. We shall see soon enough.

When Tesla delivers vehicles with cells they manufactured they will either pay royalties or they won't. Tesla also has patents with regards to chemistry. Tesla manufactured 4680 cells will come with the Cybertruck and maybe a new version of Model Y.


.
 

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GM has thousands of patents it doesn't use.

There are patents but also trade secrets.

Just about every automaker that comes out with an electric vehicle claims they have a unique cell or chemistry working closely with a cell maker.

Unless someone does a tear down and does an analysis I am not inclined to believe or disbelieve that Ultium cells are unique from LG cells.

At the end of the day they either offer an advantage to the consumer or they don't. We shall see soon enough.

When Tesla delivers vehicles with cells they manufactured they will either pay royalties or they won't. Tesla also has patents with regards to chemistry. Tesla manufactured 4680 cells will come with the Cybertruck and maybe a new version of Model Y.


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GM also has thousands of patents it uses.


Yup, Tesla is working hard to get free from Panasonic. They have stated they will not make their own batteries in China, preferring to source Chinese for China.

Hopefully GM doesn’t share its Chem with Chinese JV
 

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Yes, they are built of Ultium. Remember, Platform and Chassis’s are different things. You already knew that no?
Yes they are different things, but both can be labeled as "platforms". And this isn't new. Powertrains have always been developed as platforms. For example, the LT series of V8s is a (powertrain) platform that is available in full-size truck, Corvette, and Camaro (chassis) platforms.

Now GM has a new (different than Bolt/Volt) EV powertrain platform, known as Ultium. It is announced to be available in the big truck platform (Hummer EV and Silverado so far). But it can also be utilized within other platforms.
 

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Glad its not just me, just stop arguing with that 🤡
 

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In the old days a lot of people had a big station wagon or something like that for vacations etc and a smaller car for around-town stuff. Maybe we'll get back to that, an ICE for vacations/trips and a smaller EV for grocery shopping etc.
 

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In the old days a lot of people had a big station wagon or something like that for vacations etc and a smaller car for around-town stuff. Maybe we'll get back to that, an ICE for vacations/trips and a smaller EV for grocery shopping etc.
I have no doubt that will be the situation in these early years of EVs, as each type of vehicles has it's pluses and minuses. And the overall ownership ratio of EV vs ICE will shift depending on advances in technology.
 

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No, Ultium cells are not LG off the shelf cells. The Chemistry is GM proprietary, GM is the only automaker with extensive battery chemistry patents, beg from the volt days. LG brings cell manufacturing know how.
part of their strategy is to own their own technology.
GM and LG Chem created a JV to do battery research and manufacturing.
But my understanding is that the cell itself, while a different chemistry, is still available for sale or will be available for sale to other customers other than GM.
The way GM packages it into those pouches and integrates it into systems is 100% GM proprietary.


In addition, GM has particular expertise in cel packs l construction, which LG doesn’t have, given with Bolt, LG packs were the problem, not GM’s.
Yes. The way the cells are packaged into the battery itself is GM designed and proprietary to GM.

The Volt batteries had lots of DOE chemistry, (funded by )but developed by GM. So, no LG doesn’t own GM battery chemistry.
VOlt's battery is standard Lithium ion.

Panasonic owns Tesla’s battery Chemistry, but eBen Tesla is working hard to own it’s own Chemistry
Tesla owns patents on the battery chemistry. Tho, believe the CATL batteries in lower end Teslas don't use that patent.
 

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GM and LG Chem created a JV to do battery research and manufacturing.
But my understanding is that the cell itself, while a different chemistry, is still available for sale or will be available for sale to other customers other than GM.
The way GM packages it into those pouches and integrates it into systems is 100% GM proprietary.




Yes. The way the cells are packaged into the battery itself is GM designed and proprietary to GM.



VOlt's battery is standard Lithium ion.



Tesla owns patents on the battery chemistry. Tho, believe the CATL batteries in lower end Teslas don't use that patent.
Yup, selling sells makes sense, it’s a business. Research makes sense, LG is in the Battery business, so is GM..
However, LG Chem is not the owner of the Chemistry in Ultium.


Volt Chemistry was paid for by Department of Energy.. if I remember correctly, there was some magnesium something or other that allowed the volt to pack a big battery, a first for it’s time… developed by GM and some other researchers using DOE funds… Toyota said there was no way one could use Li in cars at the time.. they were swimming in Prius Dough…
 

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Yup, selling sells makes sense, it’s a business. Research makes sense, LG is in the Battery business, so is GM..
However, LG Chem is not the owner of the Chemistry in Ultium.


Volt Chemistry was paid for by Department of Energy.. if I remember correctly, there was some magnesium something or other that allowed the volt to pack a big battery, a first for it’s time… developed by GM and some other researchers using DOE funds… Toyota said there was no way one could use Li in cars at the time.. they were swimming in Prius Dough…
For all of the prattling-on about chemistry, Ultium is not chemistry-dependent. As new chemistry becomes available--as it is virtually guaranteed to do--Ultium will be ready for it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
This article states that the Ultium battery chemistry is proprietary to GM.

GM Battery Technology

"The chemistry will be proprietary to GM products but was developed in collaboration with LG Chem. GM and LG are continuing to develop new chemistries with the eventual goal of eliminating both cobalt and nickel entirely".

It was also stated,

"GM has is open to eventually licensing these cells to other companies for uses such as stationary storage".
 

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This article states that the Ultium battery chemistry is proprietary to GM.

GM Battery Technology

"The chemistry will be proprietary to GM products but was developed in collaboration with LG Chem. GM and LG are continuing to develop new chemistries with the eventual goal of eliminating both cobalt and nickel entirely".

It was also stated,

"GM has is open to eventually licensing these cells to other companies for uses such as stationary storage".

See, that's interesting.
I know Ultium is an NCMA battery developed in conjunction with LG.

But I also know that Tesla is using LG NCMA batteries in the Model Y built in China. Makes me wonder what the difference is.

It's the way GM has been able to package and integrate the batteries into the pouches that is the real differentiator of Ultium.
 

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See, that's interesting.
I know Ultium is an NCMA battery developed in conjunction with LG.

But I also know that Tesla is using LG NCMA batteries in the Model Y built in China. Makes me wonder what the difference is.

It's the way GM has been able to package and integrate the batteries into the pouches that is the real differentiator of Ultium.
It is interesting! Though could be like toothpaste - several brands out there with their proprietary toothpaste technology, but in the end they are little different from one another.
 
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