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Why is GM so dumb?

5K views 36 replies 23 participants last post by  SS1LE02 
#1 ·
Don't get me wrong, I love GM, it's all I own(67 Chevelle SS convertible, 2006 Silverado 1500 4x4, 2009 Cadillac CTS-V, 2011 Traverse).

Previous vehicles starting in order of my age: 1972 Grand Prix, 76 Nova, 76 Omega, 77 Accord, 80 Schirocco, (67 Chevelle SS Conv.), 70 Monte Carlo, 72 Monte Carlo, 67 Malibu, 70 Chevelle, 71 GMC Sprint, 81 Phoenix, 83 Century, 84 Prelude, 80 El Camino, 89 Prelude Si, 99 Camaro SS, 2002 Camaro SS, 04 Honda CR/V, 2000 Silverado 1500 4x4, Audi RS4, (2011 Traverse, 09 CTS-V, 06 Silverado 1500 4x4).

1.When the Cobalt SS came out you started to see some of the kids who liked Civics and DSM's acquiring them. This I would think would lead some of them as they grew up to continue into another GM. Why hasn't there been any replacement for that car. Why isn't there a Sonic and Cruze hi performance option.

2. Why don't the full size trucks have a true posi like in my Chevelle SS, 2002 Camaro SS. I hate the G80 in my Silverado. That clunk when the other side kicks in makes me think it's going to shatter.

3. How come no strong AWD system? If Audi and Subaru can make a good system why can't GM. I realize there are trade offs like weight and added cost, but it would be nice if it was an option.

4. Why no Raptor fighter?

5. I know the Chevy interior quality has come up but can't it be on par with say Volkswagen and Honda? I always here the complaint of "yards and yards of cheap plastic". I loved the interior in my Audi RS4.

6. Bland Chevy styling on their cars. ie. Malibu, SS, and Traverse.

7. Why did they go so conservative on the redesign of the full size twins. They need to lead, not be surpassed in a month of their reveal by Ford and Chrysler.

I just want the best for GM and it to be the best in the industry. I know there are great new cars, but I hate the same old criticisms(government motors, recalls, etc.)

Flame suit on.
 
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#3 ·
I think you make some very good points.
1) I blame this on Bankruptcy and the ineptness of Captain Dan who wanted GM to be Toyota and not have a soul
2) no clue, never noticed it in the new trucks.
3) Agreed, the new And system that just debuted in the Envision is supposed to be better, let's see how that shakes out once it comes to the US.
4) Bankruptcy and I think we'll see something in the Colorado ZR2 and in the refresh for the Full sized twins. Lord knows they need to fix the throttle tip in.
5) I'm not sure that they aren't.
6 & 7) Agreed, GM has been too cautious
 
#4 ·
GMs entry level cars need to step it up big time. I think thats GMs weakest link right now.
 
#7 ·
We need more thought-provoking threads like this to challenge our preconceptions and encourage all of our emotional and intellectual growth.

Truly, stimulating.



1) Good point, and one I agree with. Performance should not be relegated to RWD.
2) No idea.
3) No idea, but I would want one, too. Just a high performance, high torque AWD system. Definitely a must-have for GM.
4) Too risk averse. I don't consider the ZR2 a Raptor fighter. Say whatever about bent frames, size, whatever. Whatever the Raptor does, GM could build a better Silverado AND a ZR2. I see no reason why they can't, particularly if they wanted to shift Chevrolet into a more "active lifestyle" kind of brand.
5) Haven't been in a Chevy in a while, so I can't comment... but I like my sister's new TDI and my Accord is pretty good for what it is.
6) Too risk averse. No balls.
7) Too risk averse. No balls.
 
#8 · (Edited)
We need more thought-provoking threads like this to challenge our preconceptions and encourage all of our emotional and intellectual growth.

Truly, stimulating.



1) Good point, and one I agree with. Performance should not be relegated to RWD.
2) No idea.
3) No idea, but I would want one, too. Just a high performance, high torque AWD system. Definitely a must-have for GM.
4) Too risk averse. I don't consider the ZR2 a Raptor fighter. Say whatever about bent frames, size, whatever. Whatever the Raptor does, GM could build a better Silverado AND a ZR2. I see no reason why they can't, particularly if they wanted to shift Chevrolet into a more "active lifestyle" kind of brand.
5) Haven't been in a Chevy in a while, so I can't comment... but I like my sister's new TDI and my Accord is pretty good for what it is.
6) Too risk averse. No balls.
7) Too risk averse. No balls.
I'm right there with both of you on these statements. Just like I've said about wagons, hatches in the small cars, SUV/CUV, and El Camino types. The competition is running circles around GM because they've lost their balls and are too conservative any more. I said this in another post that they could do an SSR but yet these other no brainers never get done. I think the newer models are better than their predecessors but still there is room for improvement both style wise and in the material(hard surfaces)quality. I also am one of the dyed in the wool GM types and I just want what's better and best for GM and us customers.:) Another point: The asinine instrumentation in the new Trax. I cant stand it but like the over all package.
 
#19 · (Edited)
GM's always looked more badass in my formative days, ie. the muscle cars of the 60s and early 70s. The bodies were so sensual which reminded me of another car I owned, a 68 Cutlass S. I pulled the 350 out and dropped in a 455. Awesome car. They had great lines and curves like the old Rivieras, Toronados, mid 60's Caddies. They were great. Compared to the Ford and Chysler products of the day which looked oafish or poorly proportioned. Interiors were much better back then than those two companies also.

I always liked working on GM cars, my Chevelle, 02 Camaro SS, Silverado, and especially my CTS-V. They're so easy to work on.

The not so new LSx motors are phenomenal. So simple to make power, and cheaply to boot. I haven't acquired any cars with new LT1 based motor, but I'm sure they will fun to work on just like a good old small/big block, LS1 or LSA.

Hell even my screen name is GM orientated: SS1LE02

SS well thats obvious
1LE= option code
02= model year of my Camaro(shouldn't of sold it)

I would like to get my 12 year old son into some fun car when he turns 16. A cool Sonic that we could hop up would be fun instead of a VW GTI which seem to be popular with the young kids now instead of Civics. He's already asking me how I know how to do stuff on cars and make them faster.



That is just some of the reasons
 
#10 ·
1. There's the Sonic RS but I agree that the Cobalt SS should have had a replacement. Ford has the Fiesta and Focus ST and Dodge has the Dart R/T which isn't quite up there but it's certainly better than a Cruze as far as performance.

2. Yeah limited slip diffs are nice.

3. Does the Regal GS AWD have the sweet Haldex system that's like Saab's XWD?

4. Raptor definitely serves as a great halo for the F150 line and GM should have something to truly go against it.

5. They're getting there, slowly. Better than GM's early-mid 2000's interiors. Those Trailblazers and Malibu's were baaaaad.

6. Traverse to me is alright. GM probably didn't want to spend much on the SS since it's on its way out. Malibu...yea I don't know. The '08-'12 one was awesome and they took a step backwards with the '14.

7. If I recall, Bob Lutz once said something like if you don't pee-off at least a few people when you come out with a new style, you weren't radical enough. I believe he was with Chrysler and said this about the '95 Ram when it came out, which was quite controversial, but buyers came to love it.
 
#15 ·
And where are the GMC Hummers? I.e. GMC off road competition to Jeep and Power Wagon.
 
#20 ·
Personally, I think that Chevy interior quality has at the very least matched Honda and VW.
 
#21 ·
I can't deny some criticism, but if you look at the current GM model line, you will see the following.

Most GM cars still built on old/aging platforms (Epsilon 2, Delta 2, Gamma 2, Theta, Lambda, Theta Premium).In the next few years these platforms will be replaced with new ones (modular architecture). Perhaps that is why GM doesn't want to expand the number of models on these platforms.

Alpha-platform is likely to have serious problems with the packaging space, that is why GM doesn't develop SUVs on this architecture.

K2XX could used for the design of Raptor's fighter, but it's just not a priority right now.

Niche cars appear, but with the new architecture. A matter of time.
 
#22 ·
I think most of these are accurate. GM could easily whip up a Cruze SS that could run circles around the Focus ST. Hopefully that shows up with the next generation alog with a hatchback version. If GM isnt already working on a Raptor fighter, they need to seriously get started on it. They have the engineers to do it and we all know it. I agree that the Chevy interiors have at least matched Honda. Not quite VW but they are much improved and I am proud to see that. Ive been longing for a Grand Cherokee competitor for so long and GM has the Trailblazer from over seas. It would need a massive overhaul before it could ever make it to our shores but GM could do it if they saw a market for it. Maybe as a GMC instead. Offer it with a diesel and a selection of other motors.
 
#23 ·
read john deloreans book, this has been a long and painful process! I mean, back eons ago, here comes Japan, was anyone awake in Detroit?

Personally I think its all the entitled midwesterners who largely work there, they assume it will be there forever for their own benefit. Most of the large-scale, heavy manufacturing, midwestern companies have went under, never thinking about foreign competitors, I guess.
Mcdonalds is now in a similar boat, but they dont have gms pensions so they wont go under.
 
#28 ·
I read DeLorean's book a long time ago and it was an interesting and disheartening read for a GM fan. But citing a 1979 book today is as relevant as talking about Vegas (which DeLorean defended in that book), Citations, V-8-6-4s, and Cimarrons. Which of course, a lot of people still do.
 
#26 ·
How is GM dumb? I mean, seriously, in this highly competitive market, GM STILLS sells more vehicles than any other car company. The Raptor is a niche vehicle and I don't think GM would benefit from chasing it. I'm sure they've contemplated the idea.

I'm not sure where the idea that the VW interior is the one to beat comes from. Unless it's changed in the last year, I wouldn't be chasing that either.

Personally, I'd like to see GM offer more midsized two-door models, and equipped with V6 engines. Despite the criticism levelled on the latest Malibu, I find it better executed than any of its competitors, and it even performs well in four banger form. But I'd have one in my driveway RIGHT now if it lost two doors and gained a V6. Same with Regal, or Cruze, or Verano. Better yet, make some of them RWD.
 
#33 ·
I should've said they could do so much better.

I got a loaner Malibu from the dealership when we brought in the Traverse last month for some service. It was very , meh. I liked the one I got as a rental in 2009 much better. Better proportioned and driving manners.

I never implied a Volkswagen interior was the one to beat. It's middle of the road. I would say if you compared the interior quality of my 2002 Camaro, 2006 Silverado, and 2011 Traverse, a VW or Honda interior from those same years are better.

As far as offering two doors on a Malibu or it's cousins, I don't see it happening. You can get two doors on a Camaro if you want that along with RWD. People don't buy that many coupes anymore.

I don't know if a Raptor is such a niche vehicle. I certainly see a lot of them.
 
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