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WTF is GM thinking? Why is the Northstar, an engine that I praise when ever I drive my STS, still being produced??? 320HP is a joke in today’s HIGH HP world. Hell GM currently has a 3.6L V6 that is only 16 paces away form the NS… a turbo-ed 4cylinder that is capable of eclipsing it… and more 2 the point… a OHV engine that would make every manufacture on the planet bow down in awe of it’s greatness… as they do very often when it’s carried under the hood of the “Plastic Fantastic.” IF ONLY GM would understand that the LS engines are “THEIR BAG.”

Has anyone at GM even considered the fact that the new Hyundai Genesis now has a DOHC V8 that is 17% more powerful than their FLAGSHIP Northstar V8 engine being fitted in the STS, SRX, and XLR… cars that will undoubtedly cost at least twice as much as the Genesis… Oh don’t get me wrong… I will never find myself buying a Hyundai… It’s not American… I hate the styling, even when it’s so derivative of more handsome, non-Korean vehicles that u actually have to do a Double-Take to make sure that it’s not an Enclave, Accord, or old Q45. Hell they even had one called the Amanti (by kia) that I swore was “Jaguar’s Joke” for about 3 months until I got around to inspecting the label.

The Northstar engine is PROOF that GM can build a world class OHC engine… the Ecotecs, and the 3.6L are even more so… but what gives??? The ULTRAS were canceled due to CAFÉ.. so WHO CARES… they could always fall back on your Bread and Butter… an engine that they have perfected to a point that not only is it more powerful than it’s competitors, but also more efficient and just as smooth. One drive in the 2008 Pontiac G8 GT will solidify it in your mind that this PUSHROD is nothing but the TRUTH… and would have no issue or problem with being dropped into an STS, SRX, Lucerne, or CTS… OH wait it is going to be… in the tune of 567HP for the most expensive CTS, the Vseries. OK OK… let me get this straight… U could have bragging rights of saying that your Cadillac STS or CTS has a class leading 400HP (which is the natural HP amount for the 6.0L ) or even the detuned 361HP 6.0L… but U’d rather say “OH NO… the Northstar is OHC.. with 320HP sure... but it has OHC… that’s what people want”

Sounds stupid to me too… fact... like most OHC engines the Northstar is not as efficient as the 6.0L… or 6.2L, despite having less power, despite having to use Premium gas. Truth is GM could ultimately be in the midst of a marketing GODSEND by exploring the idea of showing the Stunning CTS/STS/SRX/XLR with 361HP… or to differentiate it from the Pontiac G8 GT… bump it up to 390HP… and still have a vehicle that is class leading in power and fuel economy running on Regular Petrol.

The Ultimate question hat has always perplexed me… is WHY THE HELL does Cadillac take the Y-Body (Corvette/XLR) and give it a weaker engine that is less fun to drive when it would actually be, on multiple fronts, more profitable to not change the engine at all… simply adding a less aggressive exhaust (see G8 GT), and more sound deadening… that would more than likely siphon off about 10HP from the 430HP 6.2L and because of the extra sound deadening material added, slow the XLR to a point that it would still allow for the coveted Corvette to be the Forever Fastest car at GM… a position that was once challenged by a Buick in Black… and never repeated again. Or did U really need an explanation on why the ZR1 is gonna cost the same as an XLR-V and still absolutely MURDER it at the track.

I still think that the LS3, LSA, and LS9 should be offered in Cadillac. The only thing that would make me change my mind on this is IF GM went on a turbo-charged the 3.6L Di to at least 400HP. Then I would stand up and say "WOW... GM has a new plan and is LEADING the charge." They either need to LEAD the WAY or settle themselves at the lower level of Luxo.

At some point a TIER 1 Luxo manufacturer has to simply NOT CARE about political correctness. Caddy showed promise with the Escalade and especially Escalade Platinum essentially thumbing it's nose at the norm.


Many argue that the reason why a luxury car doesn't have the OHV engine is because the OHC scream sophistication and techy... But I call BS. The Cadillac Escalades 403HP 6.2L engine is SWEET!!! as is the 380HP variant in the Denali. My 5.3L in my Tahoe is smooth as butter, while My Vette's LS1 (modified) is sublime. NOW... Go drive a Corvette or GTO with the 6.0L 400HP or the Z06 with it's 505HP "BOOM BOX" and U will wonder why OHC even have the TECH heavy reputation they have versus the Push Rods.

Plain and simple.. I would think that Bentley is the Luxo Benchmark right next to Rolls right now. If Caddy, Lexus, Benz, or BMW put a Push Rod in their cars then I would see nothing wrong with it...nothing at all.
 

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The Northstar engine is PROOF that GM can build a world class OHC engine… the Ecotecs, and the 3.6L are even more so… but what gives???
GM seems to spend a lot of time , proving they can do it..
1 hit wonders.. Hyundai will be consistent. In 20 years, they will have an X5, a LS, and a GS..
Meanwhile, Cadillac is busy killing the SRX, ignoring the Escalade and the H2, ignoring the STS and its not even sure about the DTS
 

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GM seems to spend a lot of time , proving they can do it..
1 hit wonders.. Hyundai will be consistent. In 20 years, they will have an X5, a LS, and a GS..
Meanwhile, Cadillac is busy killing the SRX, ignoring the Escalade and the H2, ignoring the STS and its not even sure about the DTS
I think that has been the problem for GM - consistency - Hyundai s expanding without neglecting any of their current models - they do not have a car languishing on the market without updates, they are not killing a fine car because they do not feel like paying attention to it. I do feel several of their cars are subpar the Tuscon being one of them. However - everytime they release a new update, or a new car it is better than before in very meaningful way and every time it is closer and closer to the key Japanese competition.

There are early signs Ford is starting to do the same thing, but I am affraid the "car guy: Lutz is more hung up on having the next great thing of a one hit wonder, than finding a way to make GM into a machine pumping out great cars. They have not had a bad car for a while, but they are making some weird decisions lately. I do feel the current cars are good only because of Lutz - if he leaves, I feel GM will stumble immediately.

Igor
 

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Euro's dont care about SRX. It was a good car, but too narrow.
The BRX will suit Caddy just fine IMO and have better sales then the SRX.
The Escalade needs an update, along with some higher quality looks. Its a very nice looking truck, but I wish it was a bit smaller and had some features in it.

As for the Gen IV's, I think that with Gen V and the addition of DI and a rumored OHC head design for them, the Gen V should be GM's global V8. No more Northy, no Ultra, no BMW V8's...GM V8's in GM cars. V8's will still have a market and in the luxury world V8's is where its at. I dont see the reason to hold back on putting an LS3 type engine into the CTS. If its as silent as the G8 GT, I really dont see the problem. Plaster a giant engine cover over it and you have yourself a class leading performance sedan.
 

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The only vehicle that makes less power then the new Hyundai is the SRX. The CTS-V, XLR-V, STS-V, and the Escalade all make more power then the Hyundai. One can only hope that since GM canceled the Ultra motor that they will offer a direct injected version of the current LS3's that will blow away the competition and still get great gas mileage. I would like to think that we are still in for some surprises in the next couple years with some smaller displacement pushrod V8's with direct injection.
 

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Euro's dont care about SRX. It was a good car, but too narrow.
The BRX will suit Caddy just fine IMO and have better sales then the SRX.
The Escalade needs an update, along with some higher quality looks. Its a very nice looking truck, but I wish it was a bit smaller and had some features in it.

As for the Gen IV's, I think that with Gen V and the addition of DI and a rumored OHC head design for them, the Gen V should be GM's global V8. No more Northy, no Ultra, no BMW V8's...GM V8's in GM cars. V8's will still have a market and in the luxury world V8's is where its at. I dont see the reason to hold back on putting an LS3 type engine into the CTS. If its as silent as the G8 GT, I really dont see the problem. Plaster a giant engine cover over it and you have yourself a class leading performance sedan.
I agree with all your observations, except the killing of the SRX. That was not a good move
 

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What will Europeans think when there is no new SRX?
The lack of an economical diesel means the SRX is often not even considered. The V6 and V8 options might be powerful and fast, but luxury buyers here are also into fuel economy. I've only seen one Cadillac SRX here and that was in Munich (couldn't snap a picture because it caught me off-guard).

In order to sell an SUV on the European market you need a diesel engine option. In fact you need a diesel engine option for any car here(except for sports cars at the moment though there's a growing trend to sell them with diesel engines as well).

:)
 

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Did we HAVE to revisit this topic??? :sad:
A lack of horsepower really only scratches the surface of Cadillac's current problems.

We know Cadillac is going to be languishing for some time.
It really hurts to think about "what could have been" at Cadillac.

Anyone who buys anything other than a CTS is a fool.
And as I've said before, Cadillac cannot survive on the back of CTS alone.
 

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Just like the Azera is arguably better than a Lucerne...a Korean "upstart" is doing better than a brand thats had over 100 years to figure things out...
 

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The lack of an economical diesel means the SRX is often not even considered. The V6 and V8 options might be powerful and fast, but luxury buyers here are also into fuel economy. I've only seen one Cadillac SRX here and that was in Munich (couldn't snap a picture because it caught me off-guard).

In order to sell an SUV on the European market you need a diesel engine option. In fact you need a diesel engine option for any car here(except for sports cars at the moment though there's a growing trend to sell them with diesel engines as well).

:)
I'm waiting for the Porsche 911 TDI :lmao: Put down the pedal and you get lots of grey smoke AND lots of black smoke :drive:



 

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Anyone who buys anything other than a CTS is a fool.
And as I've said before, Cadillac cannot survive on the back of CTS alone.
Dude. BMW has been surviving off the 3-Series and the 3-Series alone for ages now. You may include the 5-Series in there, but no more than we may include the STS...
 

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Dude. BMW has been surviving off the 3-Series and the 3-Series alone for ages now. You may include the 5-Series in there, but no more than we may include the STS...
Globally, the 3 series alone sells nearly 3x Cadillac's entire global sales volume.
And don't think the 3 isn't pulled along due to the aspirational cars like the 5, 6 and 7.
 

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Did we HAVE to revisit this topic??? :sad:
A lack of horsepower really only scratches the surface of Cadillac's current problems.

We know Cadillac is going to be languishing for some time.
It really hurts to think about "what could have been" at Cadillac.

Anyone who buys anything other than a CTS is a fool.
And as I've said before, Cadillac cannot survive on the back of CTS alone.
I know what you mean. I'm about to enter the market for a new luxury vehicle and the only Cadillac worth buying (to me) is the new CTS. But I've outgrown entry-level luxury cars. So now what?!

Just like the Azera is arguably better than a Lucerne...a Korean "upstart" is doing better than a brand thats had over 100 years to figure things out...
A friggin' shame, isn't it? Unreal... It's mainly because of the money.. GM is broke.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Globally, the 3 series alone sells nearly 3x Cadillac's entire global sales volume.
And don't think the 3 isn't pulled along due to the aspirational cars like the 5, 6 and 7.

Man U are one of the biggest pessimist on the NET when it comes to GM... seriously. U consistently praise Jaguar, yet their sales are DIRT... and the only sales gem I see them having right now is the XF...

BMW is not a LUXO car maker... they are a SPORTS CAR maker who happen to have the 7series, which automatically for some crazy reason makes them a Luxo maker in some people's mind.:confused:

And SORRY for this news flash but the in truth the current STS Platinum is as nice as a 7series despite it's slight smaller size... a Vseries has the power and the prestige.

Plain and simple the Cadillac line-up is very comparable to anything BMW has... I'd take an XLR over a 6series... I'd take an STS over a 7series, I'd take a CTS over a 5series, and I'd take an SRX over an X5. The Escalade has no BMW competitor the same as the 3series has no Cadillac competitor... Of course I liken the 3series to an economy car so I might be a lil jaded. Only the 335i and M3 stand out in that line up and if U seriously think that they are BMW's volume sellers than U are seriously lost.

If Cadillac had a version of the new 9-3TurboX here as a BLS this conversation would be MOOT. Unfortunately Bob Lutz would rather waste such an excellent car (9-3tX) on 600 cars a year sold by his smallest brand. I mean seriously... a Turbo X with a CTS body and the name BLS across the back would sell in droves... give it a convertible and U will have a true 3series competitor NOW... not 2 years from now.

Including the 1series as a Luxo car kinda makes me wanna hurl. In fact.. if that's the case why not include the Cobalt SS as a Luxo because it comes with leather and be done with it?
 

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It's time for GM to invest in a new V8 engine exclusively for Cadillac.

PS: DOHC V8 i mean
I don't see GM doing that now since they've cancelled Ultra v8.:(

Maybe they should pay other engineering firm(not to competition like bmw, mercedes etc) to develop engine for them if it will cost too much for GM to do it (i 'm not sure that paying other engineers is cheaper).
I've read that Judd will be tuning their v10 engines (GV5 S2) for some supercars maker for street use.:D:D:) Maybe GM should ask Judd to help them..or AER with their v8 4.0 l turbocharged version.
If there is so much need for dohc (and the price is not so much important because i doubt this engines are cheap)
 
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