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I remember talking to John Z when I was a mail boy and when I ran the slide projector for some of his staff meetings at Pontiac. The closest to him was Lutz who I met with many times. Neither were capable of being politically correct for more than a very short time. There is no room for a John Z or Bob Lutz in GM's "woke" culture.
One of the owners of the place where I work had the interesting opportunity to go to dinner and drinks with Bob Lutz during a dealer convention. Just him and a couple of other people so he got a lot o facetime with him. My boss told me two things. First, Lutz LOVED to drink. Second, he was one of the most personable, entertaining, and intelligent people he had ever met. The guy really loved GM and wanted the keep them whole (he had a special interest for Pontiac). Unfortunately, we know how it ended........
 

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I do think GM needs more people with passion. GM does some good things, hell, they do some great things. The problem is getting a cohesive package. There is a disconnect.
All anyone needs to do is look at Hyundai and Kia. Sure their products can look _________ insert you own word there. But my point is they appear to have more passion and drive for success. My opinion is it shows in their updated vehicles. Just look at what they've done over the last 10 years or so. Give them a few more and they'll be eating lunches.
Saying this doesn't mean I don't want a new Cadillac but does say, you never know about the future.
Since GM is killing off their "regular" cars, I have started looking at Hyundai/Kia. The 2020 Kia Forte GT looks very promising. Was previously looking to get a Cruze for the wife.
The Hyundai Elantra is a nice vehicle, but the 2020 has a CVT, which is a non-starter for me. For myself, I would like a sports sedan: Kia Stinger? Who knows.
 

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Have you checked the prices of these sporty cars lately? Those 2 dudes in the drive-thru that used to dream of a Hemi are MUCH MUCH further from affording one today. Too bad you can't buy a GTO (or any other dream car) with food stamps...

I predict even the "tough truck" segment crashes back to earth this year or next. There aren't that many people who can handle it. Paying top dollar for capability they don't use. Of course, idiots still ignore their retirement savings steadily, so what do I know? They will have to live in their truck, I guess... You are what your actions prove you are.
Yes, very expensive along with everything else - SUV's, CUV's, etc.. A Cavalier Z24 in today's $$ would probably have a sticker of $35k.
 

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So you're saying he'd be all in on EVs?
Maybe there is a bit of a similarity. :yup:

Musk - brilliant, erratic, eccentric - seems to have a bit of his company's namesake in him. I think DeLorean was a far more conventional figure, who, like any other executive, had ups and downs at GM. JZD was driven to desperate, ill-advised measures as his own company was collapsing. Musk was far more persuasive when it came to keeping Tesla afloat through legal means.
 

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Since GM is killing off their "regular" cars, I have started looking at Hyundai/Kia. The 2020 Kia Forte GT looks very promising. Was previously looking to get a Cruze for the wife.
The Hyundai Elantra is a nice vehicle, but the 2020 has a CVT, which is a non-starter for me. For myself, I would like a sports sedan: Kia Stinger? Who knows.
Elantra GT has the same drivetrain as the Forte GT, i.e. tc 1.6 7/DCT. The Elantra Eco, if still produced, has a 1.4 tc and the 7/DCT IIRC.
 

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Pretty sure the last engineer CEO GM had was Ed Whitacre and he wasn't there very long.
When Bob Stempel took over, he was the "car guy" that so many wanted. He wasn't successful, but didn't exactly inherit a good situation.
 

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Elantra GT has the same drivetrain as the Forte GT, i.e. tc 1.6 7/DCT. The Elantra Eco, if still produced, has a 1.4 tc and the 7/DCT IIRC.
Thank you, Sir. I stand corrected. I just started looking at H/K vehicles recently. I'm sure there is a lot more to learn. The Forte is a better looking vehicle than the Elantra, in my humble opinion.
 

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He'd be 94 years old.........
That's why the thread is titled "What if GM still had a John Z. DeLorean" and not "What if GM still had John Z. DeLorean." Sometimes the smallest words in a sentence carry the most significance...
 

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Is there no demand because the products aren't there to spark desire or are there no products which spark desire because there is no demand?
I think there is LITTLE DEMAND partly because the price of EVERYTHING is so high NOT just CARS but education / RENT utilities ETC that people have LITTLE "discretionary" cash
and add in the "environment" people drive in now days - USA is WAY more urban than it ever was and traffic is worse not to mention the CONDITION of most roads

taking a "wider" picture I think the INTEREST is still there with young people - just look to the DIESEL "brodozer" pickups OR the "drift" scene both strong in the young MALE demographic
go on facebook and look up various "car clubs"
 

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Times change - and so do products and consumer desires, wants and needs. I’m often amazed at the number of posts regarding, “the good old days” - and how things would be better now if we returned to the past. Not going to happen.
I agree with your first sentence. The second, not so much. I'm not amazed at all that some yearn for the good old days. Defining what they were is where opinions diverge. There was always an appeal (to me) from full size sedans with full size big blocks from the mid to late 1960s. Haul four or five people with you and still appreciate the response when you buried the gas pedal. Not enough appeal to make me actually buy one though.

I have always preferred smaller, sportier cars with a minimum of superfluous options and government mandated features. I was more than happy with manual transmissions (actually faster acceleration back then) manual window cranks, manual seat adjusters, non-power steering, manual choke, and believe it or not, no air conditioning. Such vehicles were the epitome of simplicity and light weight. Have a problem? Well, check fuel, spark and compression and you were back on the road.

Were they superior to modern vehicles? Of course not. Handling, braking, and safety were more of an art than a science in the 60s and 70s. So what's the draw? To me at least, styling and dare I say it? Soul. No, not Neanderthal's car. An intangible feeling of connection to pure, unpretentious simplicity. This is also the reason I've always preferred Chevrolets over other GM brands. Clean styling and no extra clutter. That all began to change in the early to mid 70s. I got to live through the dark era of government mandated bumpers, lower power, and horrific emissions systems that took the fun out of driving.

Fortunately, things began to get better performance wise in the mid 80s and is now at it's pinnacle. Styling? Better, but I don't believe it's possible to reach what was I consider the height of design. Back in the good old days.

Yes. And the trend is the trend, what's in is what's in and I don't think even a DeLorean could change that a lot. But a lot of these utes handle pretty well, as well as or better than the sedans of yore. The number of performance drivers has never been a high percentage, at least probably since the late '70s, so you're not going to sell "excitement." You're going to sell utility with very decent to excellent performance.

I have a fun exciting car. :drive: You don't need two doors and 20" high seats to make excitement.
The trend is indeed what it is. No doubt about that. However, I still can't get excited by CUVs. A lot of them perform very well given their constraints but I still believe their main attribute is utility. Everyone and their brother, and my wife, has a crossover so I simply don't need (or want) one. Do I need a Camaro? No. Do I want one? :)

Perfomance is partly perspective. I'm sure a new Camry would embarrass my past 1967 and 72 Camaros. Probably would win out over my 88 IROC too although that would be a lot tougher fight. But then would a 1967 Camry do as well? I think not, and it wouldn't matter anyway. It's all relative.

Thing about that low ride height. A go kart feels much faster doing 60 mph than a full size pickup. Perception. I don't need four doors since the rear seat will never be used. Except perhaps to hide a nitrous bottle.

I like low semi little cars that look the part. I just can't help it.
 

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IF GM still had a DeLorean we'd have SUV'S and CUV'S with his passion and what he stood for I guess, along with the greats like the new Corvette... maybe.
 

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Cars are increasingly falling out of pop culture favor, especially with millennials.. Simply put, they just don't care.. Those cars weren't relevant to their lives. They didn't grow up with interesting cars, and the Accords, Camry's and Mitsubishi Eclipses they did grow up with simply didn't inspire much passion, at least not compared to the stunningly styled fire breathing iron from Detroit we had from 1950s and 1960s.. They're more interested in the latest iPhone than any automobile, and as a result, car museums are going the way of the dodo bird.

Guys like John Z and Bob Lutz probably have no place in todays automobile manufacturer executive suites.
 

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Cars are increasingly falling out of pop culture favor, especially with millennials.. Simply put, they just don't care.. Those cars weren't relevant to their lives. They didn't grow up with interesting cars, and the Accords, Camry's and Mitsubishi Eclipses they did grow up with simply didn't inspire much passion, at least not compared to the stunningly styled fire breathing iron from Detroit we had from 1950s and 1960s.. They're more interested in the latest iPhone than any automobile, and as a result, car museums are going the way of the dodo bird.

Guys like John Z and Bob Lutz probably have no place in todays automobile manufacturer executive suites.
It will be interesting to see what the collector car market is like in 20 years! Will the bottom fall out?
 

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It will be interesting to see what the collector car market is like in 20 years! Will the bottom fall out?
Or even farther into time. Will they be after these SUV's and things? I think not. Unless it is for the dream vehicle niche products by Porsche and such.
 

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That's why the thread is titled "What if GM still had a John Z. DeLorean" and not "What if GM still had John Z. DeLorean." Sometimes the smallest words in a sentence carry the most significance...
I know, I got it. I was just trying to add a little levity to the thread....and at my age............
 

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What isn't surprising is that most of the buyers want a V8 - some of these trucks are so loaded down with equipment/parts that a lesser engine probably can barely move them.
 
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