[63GrandSport001]

GM should align Pontiac and Holden products together......

The G8 and the Commodore should remain the same vehicles.

Pontiac G6 and holden torano built on the Alpha platform.

Move the Pontiac G5 to the Kappa platform and build a Holden version of the same car.

Build a G10 sedan that is shared with the Holden Statesmen

 

[Vette Ninja]

GM should align Pontiac and Holden products together......

The G8 and the Commodore should remain the same vehicles.

Pontiac G6 and holden torano built on the Alpha platform.

Move the Pontiac G5 to the Kappa platform and build a Holden version of the same car.

Build a G10 sedan that is shared with the Holden Statesmen

No G10! No more gees at all.

If GM wanted to kill Pontiac slowly and painfully, then that's what they should do. If GM wants to revive Pontiac then GM should return to what made a Pontiac, a Pontiac. Aggressively styled, niche marketed, redone Chevys with more engine options and designed to be profitable at less than main-stream volumes. Pontiac could be a great division that showcased GM more exicting less main-stream division.

Not only are Holdens an insult to true Pontiac fans, they're an absurd proposition to begin with. Holden has already proven that their leftovers do not sell well here(and they're about to again). Compound that by the fact that exchange rates are less than favorable right now.

GM should cut the crap and go back to doing what always made Pontiac fans happy for forty-some years.

 

[mgescuro]

If GM is serious about returning Pontiac to respectability....

1) G6 on the Alpha platform. Include Coupe, convertible, and wagon.
2) A Vibe-like car or Vibe itself (G4?) that is more in tune with performance.
3) Keep G8 as is. Even a G8 wagon and sport truck would be a good addition.
4) Kill G5.... or keep it and maintain a single model -- equivalent to the Cobalt SS.
5) Keep Solstice and improve interior.

 

[FenwickHockey65]

Like everyone's said, G6 should definitely go to Alpha.
G8 remains the same with a sportwagon and sport truck.
G5 gets a full redesign, meaner and sharper than the Cobalt, making it more of a performance based car.
Solstice remains the same.
Vibe stops being a bloated toyota rebadge and becomes more sport-oriented.

And if the Holden Statesman ever comes to the US, it should definitely not be a Pontiac. Try new Buick Park Avenue.

 

[throwback]

If GM insists on keeping Pontiac on life support they should make 3 cars. As mentioned a RWD G6, with a 250hp turbo 4. The current G8, car only and the Solstice coupe and convertible. Also get rid of the alpha numeric nonsense. The G6 should be called the Lemans, the G8 a Bonneville.

 

[HoosierRon]

Simply ask this: what was Pontiac selling when it was selling more vehicles than it sells today? You can't argue with sales.

 

[BigAls87Z28]

Problem GM needs to do is this, and they can only pick one
Do they keep Pontiac as a sales giant?
Or do they keep Pontiac as a niche performance brand?
There can only be one. Pontiac should have 4-5 cars tops!

 

[pgill00]

Problem GM needs to do is this, and they can only pick one
Do they keep Pontiac as a sales giant?
Or do they keep Pontiac as a niche performance brand?
There can only be one. Pontiac should have 4-5 cars tops!

Revive Pontiac....why? Dealerships are being aligned with Buick and GMC. Pontiac should not be more than 3 cars and I think the G8, a cool G5 and a Solstice. One more car to this lineup starts eating into Buick sales and if you put an SUV in there then it eats into GMC sales. The same customer is going to be forced to shop all 3 brands and there is no point in giving them more than 1 choice on the same segment.

BPG is going to be a restyled Chevy store with the addition of a couple of Cadillacs and that is the niche Pontiac has to fill. There is no such thing as reviving Pontiac becuase it is a small piece of a shrinking pie.

 

[ksr]

There is no such thing as reviving Pontiac becuase it is a small piece of a shrinking pie.

With the right products, Pontiac could be revived and could sell big volumes again. It's all about product. If you check out Pontiacs year-by-year sales from decades past, it had some huge up and down swings in sales volume. It's not impossible that there could be an upswing, although I don't think GM really cares about the brand.

A G8 coupe and a new Firebird would be a good start.

I don't think Holdens are an insult to Pontiac fans. Not to this one anyway, and not with products like the G8.

I have no problem with the G6. It's a very good mainstream car.

I'd like to see the G5 made more than just a Cobalt knockoff. Share the platform fine, but let's see some different sheetmetal.

The Solstice is great, and I'm looking forward to that coupe.

 

[mgescuro]

Problem GM needs to do is this, and they can only pick one
Do they keep Pontiac as a sales giant?
Or do they keep Pontiac as a niche performance brand?
There can only be one. Pontiac should have 4-5 cars tops!

GM needs to do it. But they're not going to.
because dealerships are gonna whine. And GM's gonna relent.

That's the problem with GM. They are addicted, and they have been unable to shake it. This is a cancer and GM is losing th ebattle.

 

[Maki]

Simply ask this: what was Pontiac selling when it was selling more vehicles than it sells today? You can't argue with sales.

Actually when Pontiac was number 3 in US sales they sold the following lineup:

Thats from an era when Pontiacs were Pontiacs,and not ugly Chevy rebadges. If platform sharing with Holden should be considered an insult to fans,then by all means a Chevy rebadge would be an even greater insult. Pontiac lost it's purpose ever since it became a Chevy with a nose job. Gm should restore some uniqueness to the brand.

 

[osiris]

GM had Mr. Delorean to thank for Pontiac's success in those days.

Here is my view on what Pontiac should do, from another thread:

If Pontiac is to be GM's excitement division, why not drop in a 2.0 turbo LNF to make a G5 GXP? Why not a convertible G6 GXP? Why produce a hot G6 GXP coupe that is aimed at a market that prefers manual transmissions and not offer one? The aforementioned models are supposed to evolve into RWD machines, which is something that I strongly encourage. Why bring the niche G8 sport truck for 2010 when a G8 coupe would be much sexier and sell far better? Why does the Torrent still exist? Why is the immense potential of the Vibe ruined by this NUMMI/Toyota garbage? Where is my 2010 Firebird and freshly retro redesigned 2011 GTO?

On a more positive note the "G" naming convention is genius, the Solstice coupe is marvelous, and the G8 will become the standard by which all other domestic sport sedans are judged and will likely scare the daylights out of the imports.

Who would NOT want this G8 coupe?

 

[t-rex]

Thats from an era when Pontiacs were Pontiacs,and not ugly Chevy rebadges. If platform sharing with Holden should be considered an insult to fans,then by all means a Chevy rebadge would be an even greater insult. Pontiac lost it's purpose ever since it became a Chevy with a nose job. Gm should restore some uniqueness to the brand.

I agree to an extent, but Pontiacs for most of the brand's history, have never been fundamentally different from Chevrolets. Sure there were the odd models here and there that packed a few more ponies than their Chevy cousins, and at least in my opinion Pontiacs led in styling in the '60s. Pontiac's "sporty" image was as much the product of Madison Avenue genius as it was anything emanating from GM.

I mean honestly, even in the '60s, there wasn't much "sporty" about a hulking BOF boulevard cruiser with drum brakes, sloppy steering, and bench seats. I love those old Ponchos but there wasn't a shred of anything sporty about them except their image. Look at what Jaguar and Alfa Romeo were doing at the time and you realise just how crude Pontiacs were. They were simply very attractive cars with a "rebel" image that struck a chord with rebellious 1960s youth. By the '73 oil shock, Pontiac was back where it was pre-Knudsen, and it's been there ever since.

All this vaunted "Pontiac heritage" is viewed by fans through rather rosy glasses. The truth is, when Pontiac reached its peak in the mid-to-late '60s, nearly every car on the market was stylish and powerful, Pontiacs are simply the most memorable of that era, probably because it so iconoclastically represented that period.

It's baffling why so many fans keep harking on this "Pontiac should be GM's performance brand" mantra. How does one define "performance" today, when many V6-powered midsize family haulers can do 0-60 times that put even some respected old muscle cars to shame?

"Performance" can't cut it as a unique selling point, just as "quirky" won't save Saab. And "performance" might be very difficult to sell in a world of $150/barrel oil.

I contend we all quit beating the "performance" dead horse, and think of another, more feasible, theme to identify Pontiac with (and no.... not "car"!)

Just like "rebel" almost encapsulated the Pontiac image of the '60s in one word, today we need a similar word or short phrase that can both hark back to the brand's heyday, yet tie in with today's market expectations.

I believe that "rebel" spirit is the only thing that can save Pontiac. But it needs to be "rebel" in today's, not 1967's, mindset. That can only be accomplished through "out the box" approaches in styling and engineering.

If any of you think shoehorning a huge engine into a boring sedan will save Pontiac, I've got some plastic cladding I'd like to sell you...

 

[BigAls87Z28]

Good point Trex, but I think that Pontiac needs to define performance. When Tahoe and I interviewed some Pontiac people durring NYIAS, they didnt really have a great grasp of what performance was. There is no consistancy.
Now yes, a lot of cars can pull some really good numbers performance wise now, but the overall feel of the car should be edgy. The style, stance, and look of the car needs to show it. GM needs to either sacrafice the sales numbers for a niche brand, or maintain the course and have a bunch of cars that really dont define a brand, but just to appease the dealer network.
Marketing is another big thing, and you are right it has to be different then just debuting a big engine in a midsized car.
Nissan has an image of performance and sportyness with powerful engines, but they also have a design style all to thereselves. Be it ugly or not, its marketing, its design, and its cars talk in one voice. Each car talks the same language.
The Versa to Sentra, Altima, Maxima, 370Z, Murano, they all are on the same page. Same goes for thier trucks.
Saturn has this, Chevy's getting it, GMC has it with its trucks, but the rest of the GM brands dont have it. Buick is all over the place. You have 2 cars that are boring and bottom of thier class, and then you have the Enclave.
Saab has a cool 9-3 but the 9-5 looks like its in drag with 9-7x just blah
Pontiac has 3 Chevys, a Toyota, and a Saturn counterpart. G8 is the only unique Pontiac car.
Caddy...I wont even go there

Future wise, it seems GM has a loaded a new clip and will start firing once again out new and fresh products starting with Camaro this September.

 

[symdon]

Solstice is already dead. They don't sell. Where is our Bonn? A RWD G8 that dealers can't even get. GM needs to get it together. Dump the GrandPrix why not re design it. The G6 is an old shoe. COME ON GM GIVE US SOMETHING TO SELL.. New Impala,Where the heck is our Camaro? How about a new GM VAN build a good looking van and we will sell a ton of them with TV,Blue tooth, storage, fold flat seats. This is what your dealers are saying...

 

[MonteCarloSS86]

I believe that "rebel" spirit is the only thing that can save Pontiac. But it needs to be "rebel" in today's, not 1967's, mindset. That can only be accomplished through "out the box" approaches in styling and engineering.

If any of you think shoehorning a huge engine into a boring sedan will save Pontiac, I've got some plastic cladding I'd like to sell you...

I agree with you here but this is what happens when GM tries "out of the box" styling:

 

[2b2]

^^ +1 T-rex!

tho I have a couple problems with possible nuances to "rebel"
and offer "jet set", avant-garde, "swinger", & Cool
cuz
it wasn't rebellion without a cause
the Cause was insouciant* Style
tho
I don't know how that lighthearted-unconcern* can translate to today
with 20-somethings being fed a dogma of discipline/conformity and greed/fear
& the middleclass buying 18th/19th century furniture and persecuting anything that's borderline-weird (imho)
but
the big objection being that these single word Identities are a Trap - a meaningful brand-image should require at least a paragraph (+ lots of hand gestures, facial expressions... body english)

another issue suggests a possible solution
I've said that back in the sixties, Pontiac was the kind of car that was driven by fighter pilots (if they got to be astronauts, they switched to Oldsmobiles: less flash, more tech)

so maybe GM could organize a focus group comprised solely of fighter pilots?!!!!
tho I'm not at all sure that the military still favors them having The Right Stuff - might get in the way of the paperwork


(apologies for the philosophy - since that's also frowned upon by the powers that be)

 

[BigAls87Z28]

Solstice is already dead. They don't sell. Where is our Bonn? A RWD G8 that dealers can't even get. GM needs to get it together. Dump the GrandPrix why not re design it. The G6 is an old shoe. COME ON GM GIVE US SOMETHING TO SELL.. New Impala,Where the heck is our Camaro? How about a new GM VAN build a good looking van and we will sell a ton of them with TV,Blue tooth, storage, fold flat seats. This is what your dealers are saying...

Nothing for nothing, but dealers are destroying whatever advancements GM is trying to do.

GM makes several good products like the GTO, Solstice, Malibu, and now G8, you guys mark them up thousands and act all surprised why they dont sell?

GM makes a world class Park Ave for China, and dealers decline in favor of a DOA Lucerne with engines down on power compared to a decade ago. Same people who begged for a Cobalt rebadge, the same people who are putting up such a fit for the PBG dealers. Dealers are and should be the last thing that GM should listen to.
Where is Camaro? 4 months and 2 days away.
A van? Are you serious? Another Pontiac van to fit the performance image? dont forget to make a quiet tuned one for Buick. And then a cheaper one for Chevy. And a "European" one for Saturn which can also be used as an Opel and a Truck one for GMC, and then put a 7 slotted grill on one for Hummer. Then move the ignition lock cylinder to the center console and give it to Saab.

GM has given you stuff to sell, and you have squanderd it.

 

[Bravada]

I think with where the market is going, Pontiac should keep the good momentum given by the G8 and style-wise stay on the less-is-more route where perfect form takes over from plastic cladding, swooshes and Pokemon faces, BUT give us all (on a global scale) a slew of small, fuel-efficient but fun-to-drive cars. Do remember the Fiero only came with an I4 (in the beginning).

For single people, or ones that own more than one vehicle, an affordable, practical sports car is the hole in one.

 

[CadiEldo67]

I think I've realized what I want to do with my life. I want to work for General Motors. But more specifically, I want to turn Pontiac into the brand that it should be. It should be rebellious, stylish, fun to drive, a bit immature for those Buick buyers. And for the brand that should have it all, so much is wrong.


Firstly, there should be a consistent design language throughout the brand. Buick has its portholes and waterfall grille, Saturn has similar headlights, Chevy is pushing its new face throughout the lineup. And yet, Pontiac has the Solstice and G8, both beautiful, but both on completely different ends of the spectrum. When it comes time for a redesign, the Solstice should be less cute, and more aggressive. Pontiac should use a similar headlight/taillight design for each vehicle. The rims for each Pontiac should be available through a Pontiac parts bin. Even the exhaust tips should match. Is there shame in having a 4 cylinder with the same exhaust tip as a honkin' V8, I don't believe so.

Secondly, this is not to be a fleet brand. Thats what Chevy, Chrysler and Dodge are for, sorry Chevy, Chrysler and Dodge fans, just kidding. And in not being a fleet brand, things that should not be allowed on a Pontiac include:
Standard Rims
Antennas that aren't integrated into the windows
Crappy single exhaust, mainly referring to the exhaust tip, not the single exhaust.
Snow chains
Gaudy G6 GXP spoilers
Body Cladding
Tacky graphics (like the ones on the Tahoe/Yukon Hybrid)

Third, the interiors need to be absolutely excellent. Fit and finish is a big seller in todays market, and a little bit of extra money spent goes a long way. Therefore, plastics can be used in moderation, but the cheapest plastics don't belong in any Pontiac.

Fourth, the fit and finish of the exterior also need to be excellent. Gaps should be kept to a minimum and this includes the tire to body gap. Rims should be of high quality, and shouldn't suffer from problems such as peeling, rusting or any of that.

Fifth, great fuel efficiency is a must. The use of turbos should be second nature to GM, as Saab has many years of experience. Only 1-2 V8 engines should be offered. And Pontiac should offer both a 5/6 speed manual and a 6 speed auto across the lineup.

Last, Pontiac isn't just performance, its value, its style, its in your face, its fun, its not your father's Pontiac, lol.

And the lineup:
Ditch the Vibe, Torrent, G6, G5.

• The new Grand Am-based on either Delta II, or Alpha (SWB) just as a sedan.
• The Solstice, built on Alpha (SWB) Basically the Grand Am in coupe/convertible
• The new Grand Prix-based on Alpha (LWB)
• The Firebird/Trans Am Alpha (LWB) basically a Grand Prix coupe and convertible
• The Bonneville-based on Zeta
• The GTO-on Zeta as coupe/convertible to Bonneville.

This is essentially 3 models with 6 names to ensure Pontiac a long lasting future.


And I just read this excellent quote about the names of Pontiac "The classics are never really killed completely, but just go on hiatus until the right car worthy of that name comes along. Then, they may very likely ride again."