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http://www.fuelcelltoday.com/online/news/articles/2008-06/Genepax-unveils-water-energy-fuel-cell

Genepax unveils water energy fuel cell system

It is claimed the Water Energy System (WES) developed by Genepax can generate power by supplying water and air to the fuel and air electrodes. The basic power generation mechanism of the system is similar to that of a standard fuel cell. The main feature of the new system is that it uses a membrane electrode assembly (MEA), which contains a material that breaks down the water to hydrogen and oxygen.
Though the company did not reveal any more detail the company president said that they had "succeeded in adopting a well-known process to produce hydrogen from water to the MEA", similar to the mechanism that produces hydrogen by a reaction of metal hydride and water. However the company claims that compared with the existing method, the new process produces hydrogen from water for a longer time.
Genepax unveiled a fuel cell stack with a rated output of 120W and a fuel cell system with a rated output of 300W. The 300W system is an active system, which supplies water and air with a pump.

In the demonstration, the company powered the TV and the lighting equipment with a lead-acid battery charged by using the system.

In addition, the 300W system was mounted in the luggage room of a compact electric vehicle "Reva" manufactured by Takeoka Mini Car Products Co Ltd, and the vehicle was driven by the system.
In future Genepax intends to provide 1kw-class generation systems for use in electric vehicles and for residential applications. The production cost is presently about ¥2,000,000 (US$18,522), it estimated that it can be reduced to ¥500,000 ($5000) or lower if the company succeeds in mass production.
http://www.electronicsinfoline.com/News/New_Gadgets/Automobile/future-cars-to-run-on-water-only.html
http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20080613/153276/
Source: Fuel Cell Today
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You do realize that the water people are going to have the last laugh , don't you ? :)

Well, ok, they'll be in the choir of 'solutions' that has the last laugh - all good and good enough .

I think I remember - if not please excuse - plane you're 'on the right track'.
 

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It would be great if some electrolysis (or equivalent) technology is developed that can extract more energy from the process than it consumes, but to date, I have yet to see anything close.

Power from water? That would mean electrical power plants located along coasts, too.

But hydrogen and oxygen don't like being pulled apart. It's certainly the "Holy Grail" of energy, and I like to be optimistic, but I'm skeptical that water will power anything more than my plants.

Also, given the astronomical gas prices, new scams are all over the Internet selling "water-powered car" plans, books, kits, etc, to a gullible audience.
 

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Dont fuel cell cars produce alot of water vapor? And If I remember rite dosent water vapor make up like 60%+ of the greenhouse gasses that contribute "global warming".
 

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I have seen video of water powered cars. I think there is a lot of promise in technology like that and the infrastructure is in place!

The government should pour billions into getting this on the road ASAP. It's time!!
 

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I have seen video of water powered cars. I think there is a lot of promise in technology like that and the infrastructure is in place!

The government should pour billions into getting this on the road ASAP. It's time!!
No, this is not a good idea. There are already water shortages in much of the country and water powered cars would just make it worse.
 

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No, this is not a good idea. There are already water shortages in much of the country and water powered cars would just make it worse.
Come to Iowa. You can have all the water you want.
 

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Are you kidding me? I've ignored the constant stream of pipe dream "alternative fuels" that for some reason make the front page of this site, but this is ridiculous. Turning one substance into another and then turning it back will always give you a negative return unless there is another source of energy.

This is perpetual motion guys, remember 5th grade science? This board was already headed downhill with the environmental cooks, but this is just dumb.
 

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there are water shortages everywhere, BAD idea. unless it can run on Salt water, than we'll end up using water supplies for power instead of drinking..
 

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Are you kidding me? I've ignored the constant stream of pipe dream "alternative fuels" that for some reason make the front page of this site, but this is ridiculous. Turning one substance into another and then turning it back will always give you a negative return unless there is another source of energy.

This is perpetual motion guys, remember 5th grade science? This board was already headed downhill with the environmental cooks, but this is just dumb.
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Put another way, fuel cells work by extracting the energy created as the hydrogen molecules bond to oxygen. If the system is also doing the reverse, it must use an equivalent amount of energy, thereby negating any output. And due to inefficiencies such as heat, friction, etc. it would actually use more electricity than it puts out.

The only possibility is that a catalyst or reactant of some sort is used to separate the hydrogen and oxygen components of water in the first place. If there were a substance, such as pure aluminum bonding to the oxygen to form aluminum-oxide, then hydrogen would be released. However, this would then require the external processing and input of a stabilized aluminum, so the potential energy or power, would then be stored there rather than water, per se. That's just an example though, if any number of external substances or catalysts are used for a reaction with water, then that is really the focus--which the article handily avoids.
 

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bio fule is the way to go. algea creating fule. Then said alge can be used to make animal food, and we can start eating corn again (insert rolleye icon)
 

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there are water shortages everywhere, BAD idea. unless it can run on Salt water, than we'll end up using water supplies for power instead of drinking..
Forget $4+ gas...now I will have to pay $6 for my Aquafina. Just can't win.:rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
Exactly - just as there is plenty of 'alternative' ie solar etc - energy to do what needs to be done for hydrogen to work as a carrier.

Two things all the other powertrain proponents don't want to look at; 'wellhead' to wheel' for the fuel, and cradle to grave for the vehicle.

The joke is that all fuel is essentially an energy carrier that requires an enormous of amount of energy to both produce and utilize.

Utilization includes distribution ie with a conventional gasser everything involved up to and including the physical act itself of putting the fuel in the tank.

When all energy costs are accounted for - both in terms of the fuel and just as importantly in its utilization things like this and other beat the hell out of battery anything - if you want hybrid for certain duty cycle /vehicle combinations, - which is in fact desirable - do it w/o a battery ie a non battery 'hybrid'.

Just look at how the simple price of a .50 cent gallon of water gets misrepresented right here on this thread - and the 50 cents I just mentioned - thats not even counting down to what we all pay at the faucet.

One thing nobody wants to talk about is what the current oil prices and separately the current fuel prices just did to the cost of a battery and a battery hybrid.
 

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You see where it mentions metal hydride... it isn't running on water just like your car engine doesn't run on antifreeze/water mix. It's using the metal hydride ($$$)
No, it is not. Lithium hydride is a hydrogen storage medium. The density of hydrogen in LiH is greater than cryogenic hydrogen. LiH would appear to have the potential to be the nearly ideal fuel storage medium for fuel cell-powered vehicles. However, the technology has been under development for years will relatively little progress. For now, the automobile industry is going with compressed hydrogen gas to power its experimental fuel cell vehicles.

To the main point: although I don't agree with his politics, I do agree with T-Keith's analysis of the OP's report. The reported water energy fuel cell is a perpetual motion machine. It is the very definition of a hoax. I also agree that claims of new miracle sources of alternative fuel sources posted to this forum are becoming really annoying.
 

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Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Put another way, fuel cells work by extracting the energy created as the hydrogen molecules bond to oxygen. If the system is also doing the reverse, it must use an equivalent amount of energy, thereby negating any output. And due to inefficiencies such as heat, friction, etc. it would actually use more electricity than it puts out.

The only possibility is that a catalyst or reactant of some sort is used to separate the hydrogen and oxygen components of water in the first place. If there were a substance, such as pure aluminum bonding to the oxygen to form aluminum-oxide, then hydrogen would be released. However, this would then require the external processing and input of a stabilized aluminum, so the potential energy or power, would then be stored there rather than water, per se. That's just an example though, if any number of external substances or catalysts are used for a reaction with water, then that is really the focus--which the article handily avoids.
Catalysts are components of a reaction which enable or accelerate a chemical change, but do not change themselves. Since the catalyst output of the reaction is the same as the input, catalysts cannot contribute energy. If they did, that would be "created energy" which doesn't exist outside the minds of conspiracy theorists with a poor grasp of physics and chemistry.

A reactant could, provided the energy state of the products is lower than that of the reactants, but then the fuel isn't water. It's water plus the other reactants. Calling that a "water-powered car" would be a lot like calling an ICE vehicle an "air-powered car". After all, most of what goes into the combustion chamber is air, right?
 

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I know this sounds sick but I was wondering if it runs on tea, will it run on urine? It would take away from the water shortage worries. In my house there's an endless supply of the stuff.
 
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