Re: Wagner annouces GM layoffs

this is result of pole on same page of that article, asking what would be needed to turn GM around. limited options i think.

More job cuts 8%
Better cars 63%
New management 21%
A merger 7%

 

Re: Wagner announces GM layoffs

Wagoner said that, for now, GM is committed to trying to cut health care costs in cooperation with the union.

Cut helt care costs? Just cut the Union. Thats all!

 

Re: Wagner announces GM layoffs

wish that pole would have had options of "cut out UAW" and "open peoples eyes to the truth about gm products".

UAW has had it too good for too long, they have benifits well above national standard, and yet they feel they have right to these benefits. for example just recently the UAW allowed DCX to require employees to pay $5-10 deductible for dr vists. while the rest of us have been paying deductibles for years, and some of us are up to $35 a visit now. If domestic automakers ever had an entity to blame, i'd put it square on the shoulders of the greedy UAW that has a strangle hold on them. With current laws in place, and OSCA monitoring worker safety, the union is something of the past. it use to be that the union was the small guy fighting a huge corporation, but now its sole purpose is to demand every penny out of companys and nothing more.

 

Re: Wagner annouces GM layoffs

this is result of pole on same page of that article, asking what would be needed to turn GM around. limited options i think.

More job cuts 8%
Better cars 63%
New management 21%
A merger 7%

I saw this on CNN.com. I'm suprised how many people still think GM makes horrible cars. I know there have been some real turds in the past few years but it looks like they're turning the corner w/ some new exciting rides:

Solstice
G6 Coupe / Vert
H3
HHR??
Colbalt
Monte Carlo SS
(I wish I could add Camaro :brick: )

I hope eventually they can shed the misconception and get back on track.

 

Re: Wagner annouces GM layoffs

this is result of pole on same page of that article, asking what would be needed to turn GM around. limited options i think.

More job cuts 8%
Better cars 63%
New management 21%
A merger 7%

Yeah no kidding, ["IF YOU BUILD IT THEY WILL COME" IDIOTS!!! :hyper: :hyper:

 

Re: Wagner announces GM layoffs

In that poll, if a choice had been "Wear Fake Moustaches To Boost Morale" 10% of people would vote for that.
How about an option that says "Get People to Realize What Great Cars GM is Making Right Now"

 

Re: Wagner announces GM layoffs

It's the products stupid! We all know that. DCX has the union to contend with (maybe worse in Europe) and they are making money. Chevy has a great small and midsized car. They need a good large FWD car with AWD option to compete with the imports and a good RWD sedan and Coupe combo to compete with Ford and Dodge. Then Chevy cars are done. The plan to fix Pontiac / Buick / Saturn sounds good if they can execute truely "unique personalities" for these divisions that go head to head with their import competitors. Cadillac just needs to build on what it is already doing. I can't comment on SUVs / Trucks since that is not my thing.

Sounds so simple doesn't it?

 

Re: Wagner announces GM layoffs

We'll have to see. This is very important to freeing up money. However, nothing at GM will change if they just pocket the money they save and don't start improving their product.

 

Re: Wagner announces GM layoffs

Sounds like GM has a plan to put SERIOUS leverage into their next UAW negotiations in Sept 07. "Give us Health care relief or 25,000 will lose their jobs WITHOUT 95% lay off pay. Strike if you must as we(GM) are doomed without this relief!!" Woo Bay-bee!!

 

Re: Wagner announces GM layoffs

Tico wrote: "DCX has the union to contend with (maybe worse in Europe) and they are making money."

No, I think in Europe, the government's socialized medicine programs, not DCX, pays the exorbitant health care costs

 

Re: Wagner announces GM layoffs

Leverage is a key isssue here. I'm sure a strike would still shut down most of GM's operatoins if things get ugly, but it may not be 100% crippling like it would have bee 10-15-20 years ago.

Now more than then, GM has more parts produced oversees, engines (GM just announced last week I think of building more engine plants in China..and the 3.4 is built there already), and some cars are even totally produced in other countries (Canada and Mexico). Lets not forget about Holden in Australia, where the GTO comes from.

By late 2007-2008, GM may be able to produce a trickle of cars even if the unions shut down North American operations. If not...like someone else said...they are close to losing money on their cars now...if the workers strike...then they don't have to pay them.

 

Re: Wagner announces GM layoffs

i say let UAW contract expire, wish it would expire sooner. and let them strike, public wont have sympothy for them with their greedy attitude. even wagner sounded like he doesn't expect uaw to compramise with him.

 

Re: Wagner announces GM layoffs

Where is the plan?
Is it really "lets keep shrinking the company"?
The Unions are a small part of the problem; the real challenge is producing products everyone wants to buy. GM needs to fix their product mix and marketing big time.
They need a bold plan to excite consumers and it's workforce. Killing off projects and shrinking the company without a plan doesn’t make sense to me.

GM management made this mess, I’d make them the first of the 25,000 out the door.

 

Re: Wagner annouces GM layoffs

Yeah no kidding, ["IF YOU BUILD IT THEY WILL COME" IDIOTS!!! :hyper: :hyper:

But you can make the case that they can't build it without more cost cutting. GM can't win a high volume, competitive segment anymore so theyre not even trying (zeta - r.i.p.).

 

Re: Wagner announces GM layoffs

At this point, the cars are just fine. Public perception isn't there yet. More than anything, GM needs cost savings that don't hurt the cars. The number one way to do this is to take the cancerous arm (the UAW) and sever it, because I don't think this cancer can be cured.

 

Re: Wagner announces GM layoffs

Where is the plan?
Is it really "lets keep shrinking the company"?
The Unions are a small part of the problem; the real challenge is producing products everyone wants to buy. GM needs to fix their product mix and marketing big time.
They need a bold plan to excite consumers and it's workforce. Killing off projects and shrinking the company without a plan doesn’t make sense to me.

GM management made this mess, I’d make them the first of the 25,000 out the door.

Union is the problem, other companys loose market share, and struggle they trim down and lay off and cut cost. while gm has a contract to still pay workers, to not work.

 

Re: Wagner announces GM layoffs

It never seems to register among some Union employees that management requests for cutbacks of expensive benefits like health care isn't always the result of the CEO wanting to add another $1M to his or her salary. By having bought that line for so long (not that it's completely untrue, but it's certainly exaggerated by Union leadership in order to line their own greedy pockets), many of these workers have brought this upon themselves. I want to feel sorry for them, but then I picture some angry Union protestor blocking access on a picket line so that s/he could have his or her cushy benefits and uncommensurately high hourly rate for turning screws all day.

It's the same sort of lack of compassion I had for the grocery strikers out here in SoCal a couple of years ago, who missed Christmas for themselves and their families because they demanded ridiculous health care benefits and skilled pay for running cereal boxes over a scanner. In the end, they got nothing for all that effort--except for the more mature among them, who figured out that being a check-out clerk or a box boy isn't exactly something you make a career out of, and turned the situation into an opportunity to better their lives somewhere else.

That, unfortunately, is the exception rather than the rule among many a Union worker, who is enslaved by the Union hall ethic that he is entitled to the money his employer makes whether or not he contributes an equal or greater value.

Of course, once GM succeeds in cutting its employment costs to a reasonable level, they'll have no one to blame but themselves if they still have problems executing on product and marketing. But for now, here's the world's smallest violin...

 

Re: Wagner announces GM layoffs

>Better cars 63%
I think this means more than just sexy cars. It probably means quality, too, as the sales figures of boring but supposedly reliable cars show. The truth is that the general perception is that GM (and domestics as a whole) doesn't make quality cars. Americans want their cars to cause 0 trouble, to require no more attention than filling the gas tank. GM is doing little or nothing to address this perception/reality. With the thousands of dollars they are giving on rebates, they should be able to use decent tires, indestructible brake rotors, comfortable seats, better plastics, etc. Instead of wasting money on sales-gimmicks, they should A) improve the quality where necessary, B) offer 10 year/100k mile warranty. C) advertise their committment to quality. GM is mysteriously silent on quality while Toyota just release an ad campaign (at least in SoCal) that uses "reliability" as a mantra. I bet that one will have far more success than the everyone-gets-a-GM-discount tactic. Isn't someone at GM wondering why no one wants their cars even when they basically giving them away?

 

Re: Wagner announces GM layoffs

Tico wrote: "DCX has the union to contend with (maybe worse in Europe) and they are making money."

No, I think in Europe, the government's socialized medicine programs, not DCX, pays the exorbitant health care costs

Who do you think pays the taxes?

 

Re: Wagner announces GM layoffs

UAW.. time to compromise or die

If you strike come contract time, I hope GM hires out new employees who appreciate what they are be offered for the work they are doing. Then GM can cut out the bloated unions. They had their place in the last century, but times change and the UAW needs to adapt to stay alive....

 

Re: Wagner announces GM layoffs

Well, if there's a strike, maybe Aveo, Optra and Epica sales will take off, along with the GTO and Vibe!

 

Re: Wagner announces GM layoffs

25k is a big number

 

Re: Wagner announces GM layoffs

Well, if there's a strike, maybe Aveo, Optra and Epica sales will take off, along with the GTO and Vibe!

ok im lost...

 

Re: Wagner announces GM layoffs

the uaw seems to be just one of the many problems gm has, but unlike the others, the uaw seems to be one that cant be fixed, atleast not without a long fought battle, and as long as gm is shelling out tons of money for healthcare and forced to abide by the contract, they will be having a tough time getting best in class product across the board and new designs and engineering....i cant believe how blind the union can be, they are practically commiting job future suicide!

 

Re: Wagner announces GM layoffs

>Better cars 63%
I think this means more than just sexy cars. It probably means quality, too, as the sales figures of boring but supposedly reliable cars show. The truth is that the general perception is that GM (and domestics as a whole) doesn't make quality cars. Americans want their cars to cause 0 trouble, to require no more attention than filling the gas tank. GM is doing little or nothing to address this perception/reality. With the thousands of dollars they are giving on rebates, they should be able to use decent tires, indestructible brake rotors, comfortable seats, better plastics, etc. Instead of wasting money on sales-gimmicks, they should A) improve the quality where necessary, B) offer 10 year/100k mile warranty. C) advertise their committment to quality. GM is mysteriously silent on quality while Toyota just release an ad campaign (at least in SoCal) that uses "reliability" as a mantra. I bet that one will have far more success than the everyone-gets-a-GM-discount tactic. Isn't someone at GM wondering why no one wants their cars even when they basically giving them away?

Good point, but the problem is not product, it's PERCEPTION.

GM scores ahead or equal to foreign cars in the reliability surveys. The public does not believe this, however.

The root problem goes back to 1973 when GM was caught flat footed making vehicles the public did not want or could not afford (with high gas prices).

Fast forward to 2005, GM is again making vehicles that the public does not want or can not afford. (large SUV's). A market shift has been undergoing for a couple years now, and Ford and Chrysler are much better positioned to take advantage of it. Does GM not understand the basic facts of marketing? Produce a product that has little demand, and they have to discount the hell out of it to sell it. This drives down the values of all the current owners vehicles (Tahoe), making they owners feel worse about their GM product when it comes in time to trade it in. ("Why are you only giving me $8500 for my 2000 Tahoe when you gave me $12,000 for my 1999 Accord last year?")

Look on ebay. You will see tons of SUV/large trucks for sale by people who cannot simply afford to gas up the vehicles and send Betty Sue to soccer camp.

Is the Honda Ridgeline an excellent vehicle? No, but it is a great compromise between utility and costs for a majority of the yuppie car buying public.

The quality issue is harder to explain, but it has it's roots in the pieces of junk cars that GM produced in the early 1980s. Electronic controls on carburetors, smog equipment, etc, drained the power and driveability of cars. Much of this was not directly related to GM and the bugs had to be worked out by all manufacturers, but GM shot themselves in the foot by being reactive to problems instead of proactive.

Many of the traditional GM buyers shied away from GM after buying one of those cars, and now their children have grown up knowing the quality (percieved) of the foreign auto makes.

Don't blame everything on the unions. Sure, they might have choked the golden goose, but management should shoulder an equal amount of blame for giving into the union demands, and not taking steps to be proactive instead of reactive.