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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
First Shift: 2022 Launches: Ford, Cadillac, Nissan, Rivian lead EV onslaught

2022 launches: Ford's much-hyped F-150 Lightning; Cadillac's first electric crossover; Nissan's second EV; Subaru, Toyota team up on EV; Chevy Silverado's refreshing; Jeep's second plug-in hybrid.

 
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Interesting video. Some of these launches coming up are going to be worth following and watching how the market reacts.
 

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Onslaught?
 

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To me, the only way to get into one of these is to lease so you can get into much better technology in two to three years. They've got to start somewhere, though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
To me, the only way to get into one of these is to lease so you can get into much better technology in two to three years. They've got to start somewhere, though.
Paying through the nose either-way; the more a car cost, the more it'll lose value.

Lots of unknowns, what will gas prices be, what will electricity prices be, how fast will the technology change/improve, which would impact residual value.
 

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Here's that Canadian couple on recent EVs, pretty straightforward pros/cons:

 

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Here's that Canadian couple on recent EVs, pretty straightforward pros/cons:

I like that video. Mostly down-to-earth and informative, unless you're an enthusiast needing to know 0-60 times and cornering G values. I subscribed to them.
 

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^ Don't forget 'skyrocketing demand'.
Not sure this is the case. That is what will be interesting to see the product reception. More like hedging there bets that more government and green mob intervention.
 

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Paying through the nose either-way; the more a car cost, the more it'll lose value.

Lots of unknowns, what will gas prices be, what will electricity prices be, how fast will the technology change/improve, which would impact residual value.
Absolutely, lease is the way. You won’t ’own’ a car that is another goal of the mob. Owning a car gives people too much freedom.
 

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Biggest problems with EV's they are costing an absolute fortune nearly 2 times as much as some of the ICE equivalents they replace, adding massive expensive tech as well like 4 wheel steering, fully autonomous tech is pricing out its old ICE buyers out of its products they used to buy, some of the big old ICE giants legacy car players may end up small niche market players in the future. Ones that can deliver simple low tech base model EV products will be the bigger players in the future will serve its ole ICE buyers well by making expensive EV a bit more affordable to it's old ICE buyers match their wallets better. You can't expect them to pay twice the price it does not match real world pay rises and ability to pay.

Germany have just decommissioned 3 nuclear power station, there last few come off soon, with nothing put in place like renewables, so they are turning back to coal power, Belgium is the same it's last few nuclear power stations that supply half of Belgium electric power at the moment are about to be decommissioned with no alternatives put in place Europe is sleep walking into a massive 200% hike in electric power prices hikes every year. Governments seems to be legislating in green cars with no provisions in place to deliver extra electric power, are slowly sleepwalking into a green disaster.
 

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To me, the only way to get into one of these is to lease so you can get into much better technology in two to three years. They've got to start somewhere, though.
Maybe for the likes of Nissan, who have made crap EVs for years.
But when they have 1100 hp and 500+ miles range, does "much better tech" really matter?
Especially if you don't really care about infotainment and just like luxury rockets.

A 6-year old ELR still works just great as a car as far as I'm concerned.
 

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Would dread to think how much a Nissan Leaf with 1,100 hp, 500+ range, 4 wheel steering, panoramic glass roof that's fully autonomous will cost $50k where are the buyers out there to splash the cash, there will absolutely no market out there in places like Germany, folk will just buy lower spec cars that are more affordable, when you can buy a simple low spec base model Dacia Spring at $12k in Germany, wonder which model would get all the mass producers buyers sales/money?

Looking at JATO European 25 that lists every single cars sales data sold in Europe including all Chevy & Cadillac model sales data are still struggling and newbies Tesla are doing a lot better have established themselves well in a short period of time.

You can see the way the European markets heading in the future the chip shortage problem that going into 2022 now will seem nothing to what's coming the future, it will get worse in the future when automakers run short on rare earth material supplies for there EV's just like Russia that hold all European countries to ransom with Nord Stream Gas, the Chinese will hold the European automakers to ransom with rare earth materials.

Some really odd looking model sales numbers in European 25 November Sales at the moment.

Tesla Model 3 BEV 10,739 +119%
Dacia Spring BEV 5,746

Dacia Sandero 16,263 +6%
Dacia Duster 12,351 +3%
Skoda Octavia 10,164 -31%
VW Golf 6,755 -72%
BMW 3 Series 5,332 -56%
Mercedes E Class 4,753
Opel/Vauxhall Astra 4,393 -37%
Skoda 4,178 -28%
VW Passat 4167-66%
Opel/Vauxhall Insignia 1,698 -46%
Ford Mondeo 825 -49%
Ford Fiesta 720 -94%
Toyota Camry 381 -41%
Ford Mustang 346 -21%
Toyota Prius 151 -44%

Biggest GM improver in Europe.
Cherolet Tahoe Nov 1 sale 0% YTD 25 sales +773%

Certainly looks like base model simple engineered car low tech low spec gasoline/diesel models are moving up the sales charts in covid hit Europe in November, those few with the bigger wallets are splashing out on Tesla EV's and the cash strapped are buying the Renault Zoe EV or Dacia Spring EV base model low priced models. Is there a place for super range/powered high tech Nissan Leaf in cash strapped Europe with massive drops of in sales because of the European Unions massive 34 billion CO2 based fines on internal combustion car sales of European automakers, l would say a high spec high over priced Nissan Leaf with 1,100 BHP and 500 mile range would struggle to make it into triple digit sales numbers, can't see Nissan wanting to become a niche EV car maker will have to learn to live with a little bit more than the 3,478 probably around 5,000 sales after 2030 in Europe, can only see budget brands like Dacia & Skoda with low labor costs and the French/Chinese brands doing well in the future in mass produced doing well in the EU, along with Audi/BMW/Mercedes/Tesla whose wallets are well suited to high priced EV's in Europe doing well.

Biggest boom markets in Europe are luxury cars & mid sized SUV's at the moment & BEV's & base model simple no thrills cars..

European 25 Countries November 2021. JATO car sales every single car model sold in Europe including all GM"s LINK
 
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Biggest problems with EV's they are costing an absolute fortune nearly 2 times as much as some of the ICE equivalents they replace, adding massive expensive tech as well like 4 wheel steering, fully autonomous tech is pricing out its old ICE buyers out of its products they used to buy, some of the big old ICE giants legacy car players may end up small niche market players in the future. Ones that can deliver simple low tech base model EV products will be the bigger players in the future will serve its ole ICE buyers well by making expensive EV a bit more affordable to it's old ICE buyers match their wallets better. You can't expect them to pay twice the price it does not match real world pay rises and ability to pay.

Germany have just decommissioned 3 nuclear power station, there last few come off soon, with nothing put in place like renewables, so they are turning back to coal power, Belgium is the same it's last few nuclear power stations that supply half of Belgium electric power at the moment are about to be decommissioned with no alternatives put in place Europe is sleep walking into a massive 200% hike in electric power prices hikes every year. Governments seems to be legislating in green cars with no provisions in place to deliver extra electric power, are slowly sleepwalking into a green disaster.
Makes fossil fuels sound pretty good and ICE transportation if you are taking Nuclear off of the table. Just sayin…
 

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Maybe for the likes of Nissan, who have made crap EVs for years.
But when they have 1100 hp and 500+ miles range, does "much better tech" really matter?
Especially if you don't really care about infotainment and just like luxury rockets.

A 6-year old ELR still works just great as a car as far as I'm concerned.
I always liked the ELR thought it was a sharp vehicle especially after the refresh.
 
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Meanwhile, Ford has announced doubled Lightning production again. I'm hoping GM will announce late 2022 availability of the Silvy EV tomorrow...I think it's early 2023 now.

 

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I always liked the ELR thought it was a sharp vehicle especially after the refresh.
Back then, I test drove one while my car was in for an oil change at the dealer, and yeah, it was a sharp vehicle. If only they had upgraded from the Volt's "economy car" engine to something with more power, they could have better justified that price.
 

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Back then, I test drove one while my car was in for an oil change at the dealer, and yeah, it was a sharp vehicle. If only they had upgraded from the Volt's "economy car" engine to something with more power, they could have better justified that price.
I always looked at the range extender as something that was to be used in extenuating circumstances, so cheap > good.
Once the '16s got close to $30K... good luck finding one. I was looking to buy one before the Scorpio came out of nowhere.
They literally sold as soon as they hit the ground, gone before I even saw them online.

I may be looking again once this craziness settles down.

Would dread to think how much a Nissan Leaf with 1,100 hp, 500+ range, 4 wheel steering, panoramic glass roof that's fully autonomous will cost $50k where are the buyers out there to splash the cash, there will absolutely no market out there in places like Germany, folk will just buy lower spec cars that are more affordable, when you can buy a simple low spec base model Dacia Spring at $12k in Germany, wonder which model would get all the mass producers buyers sales/money?
A Nissan will never be an 1100hp, 500+ range car. Maybe an Infiniti, don't hold your breath waiting for it.
Others (other?) already make this car but not for $50k.
 

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I always looked at the range extender as something that was to be used in extenuating circumstances, so cheap > good.
Once the '16s got close to $30K... good luck finding one. I was looking to buy one before the Scorpio came out of nowhere.
They literally sold as soon as they hit the ground, gone before I even saw them online.

I may be looking again once this craziness settles down...
Sorry, I stated that wrong. It's not the range extender engine that needed more power. I meant that it was the electric motor that was limiting the ELR.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Meanwhile, Ford has announced doubled Lightning production again. I'm hoping GM will announce late 2022 availability of the Silvy EV tomorrow...I think it's early 2023 now.

Ford comes out with this THE DAY BEFORE gm shows-off the Silverado EV........... 'ouch'.
 
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