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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So here is how it works. Every kernel of corn has three things in it: carbohydrates, protein and fat. Ethanol producers have been taking the corn, squeezing out the carbohydrates (i.e., the sugar), fermenting it into moonshine, and selling the leftovers (called "distillers grain") to cattle farmers to feed to their cows.

Now they have figured out that instead of feeding the leftovers to the cows, you can squeeze the fat out of the leftovers. You can make biodiesel from the fat. And what is left is pure protein, which is better for the cows.


VeraSun Groundbreaking
 

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and this is using feed corn (corn only used for animals), right? so no "food" is lost to fuel a car or truck.
Not quite, it's the opportunity cost, so they are making animal feed corn instead of people corn or wheat or soybeans etc. But truth be told, i think food is expensive because of low interest rates and a weak dollar, not because of biofuel.
 

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Not quite, it's the opportunity cost, so they are making animal feed corn instead of people corn or wheat or soybeans etc. But truth be told, i think food is expensive because of low interest rates and a weak dollar, not because of biofuel.

Yes and yes. High energy costs are also adding to the higher prices on the shelves.
 

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But the media would lead you to believe the high food prices are from the making of ethanol. Stupid media.
Yes and because they say it enough, people believe them. Ethanol has never been made out of "people" corn
 

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Corn for either livestock or people requires VAST inputs of increasingly scarce water plus high nitrogen fertilizer, plus huge amounts of energy to drive the tractors and harvestors.....cellulosic ethanol made from plant waste is likely much more efficient by a high order. As a gardener I stopped growing corn some years back due to the perennial drought here and it being such a hungry thirsty crop.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Not quite, it's the opportunity cost, so they are making animal feed corn instead of people corn or wheat or soybeans etc. But truth be told, i think food is expensive because of low interest rates and a weak dollar, not because of biofuel.
You can grow feed corn in places where you cannot grow sweet corn.
 

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Wow, hell of a thread to come back on!!! I planted 700 acres of corn(and 120 of soybeans) since my last GMi log-in! I am glad to see this article come about, its to bad most of the public wont see this non-biased article. I hear more and more about the cost of food due to the production of bio-fuels latley. Truth be told the main factors for the high food cost is fuel prices, I use several hundred dollars worth of fuel each day! If people only realized how much fuel it takes to take corn/soybeans from a single grain to full production and processing it would change a few minds on this biofuel vs. corn debate! Oh well, atleast a few of us arnt believeing the lie.
 

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While you boys mess with corn, here's whats happening with oil. But wait, the lie is we are running out. Nevermind.

It's the largest domestic oil discovery since Alaska's Prudhoe Bay and has the potential to eliminate all American dependence on foreign oil.


The Energy Information Administration (EIA) estimates it at 503 billion barrels. Even if just 10% of the oil is recoverable... at $107 a barrel, Montana is looking at a resource base worth more than $5.3 trillion.
  • "When I first briefed legislators on this, you could practically see their jaws hit the floor. They had no idea." says Terry Johnson, the Montana Legislature's financial analyst.
  • "This sizeable find is now the highest-producing onshore oil field found in the past 56 years," reports The Pittsburgh Post Gazette.
It's a formation known as the Williston Basin, but is more commonly referred to as the "Bakken." And it stretches from Northern Montana, through North Dakota and into Canada.

For years, U.S. oil exploration has been considered a dead end. Even the "Big Oil" companies gave up searching for major oil wells decades ago. However, a recent technological breakthrough has opened up the Bakken's massive reserves... and we now have access of up to 500 billion barrels.
And because this is light, sweet oil, those billions of barrels will cost Americans just $16 PER BARREL!

That's enough crude to fully fuel the American economy for 41 years straight.
To America, this discovery couldn't have come at a better time. You see, when all the wells are finally drilled and pumping, we won't have to import any foreign oil from the Middle East. Not a single drop!
For investors like you and me, it offers a "once-in-a-lifetime" chance to profit on ever-rising demand for oil. And we can do it by getting in on the groundfloor of the next great oil boom...



Even the US Government has confirmed the Bakken as a huge oil formation. The government's own Energy Information Administration (EIA) issued this press release:
"...with new drilling and completion technology taken into account, the resource base for the entire formation is potentially much larger. A study provides estimates ranging up to 503 billion barrels of potential resources in place."
Oil in the Bakken isn't gritty, dirty and expensive like the Alberta oil sands.
We're talking light, sweet crude oil - the least expensive and easiest to refine oil out there.
And here's the kicker...

Montana lawmakers recently passed a bill that creates an 18-month tax holiday for oil wells drilled and completed in this area.
This legislation has caused a massive increase in exploration and has blown the top off this hidden ocean of oil.


Since this bill was passed, a small group of investors have been taking advantage of this untapped resource and are making thousands of dollars each month.
"It's a good, old fashioned oil boom," says Dr. Paul Polzin, a University of Montana economist.
One company has been there since the beginning of the Bakken boom... and is already selling its oil to the market. And the best part about it - this company is sharing its Bakken profits with everyday investors.
You see, for the past seven years, this company has distributed its net profits in the form of MONTHLY cash payments. They have sent their shareholders profit-sharing checks for 84 months in a row... and the check amounts are on the rise.

Mark my words, an opportunity like this only comes around once every so often and I can GUARANTEE that this will not remain a secret for much longer.



In fact, some of the local media are beginning to report on it...
  • "People in the region 'are just starting to see the potential' in this new oil play" - Grand Forks Herald, Nov. 4, 2007
  • "The huge potential of the Bakken play has industry and government officials gushing with superlatives." -CanWest News Service, Dec. 10, 2007
  • "Montanan residents with oil royalties have, literally, been made millionaires." -Missoulian.com, Dec. 2, 2007
Spread the word every way you can. Let the world know the jig is up!!!!​
 

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While you boys mess with corn, here's whats happening with oil. But wait, the lie is we are running out. Nevermind.

It's the largest domestic oil discovery since Alaska's Prudhoe Bay and has the potential to eliminate all American dependence on foreign oil.


The Energy Information Administration (EIA) estimates it at 503 billion barrels. Even if just 10% of the oil is recoverable... at $107 a barrel, Montana is looking at a resource base worth more than $5.3 trillion.
  • "When I first briefed legislators on this, you could practically see their jaws hit the floor. They had no idea." says Terry Johnson, the Montana Legislature's financial analyst.
  • "This sizeable find is now the highest-producing onshore oil field found in the past 56 years," reports The Pittsburgh Post Gazette.
It's a formation known as the Williston Basin, but is more commonly referred to as the "Bakken." And it stretches from Northern Montana, through North Dakota and into Canada.

For years, U.S. oil exploration has been considered a dead end. Even the "Big Oil" companies gave up searching for major oil wells decades ago. However, a recent technological breakthrough has opened up the Bakken's massive reserves... and we now have access of up to 500 billion barrels.
And because this is light, sweet oil, those billions of barrels will cost Americans just $16 PER BARREL!

That's enough crude to fully fuel the American economy for 41 years straight.
To America, this discovery couldn't have come at a better time. You see, when all the wells are finally drilled and pumping, we won't have to import any foreign oil from the Middle East. Not a single drop!
For investors like you and me, it offers a "once-in-a-lifetime" chance to profit on ever-rising demand for oil. And we can do it by getting in on the groundfloor of the next great oil boom...




Even the US Government has confirmed the Bakken as a huge oil formation. The government's own Energy Information Administration (EIA) issued this press release:
"...with new drilling and completion technology taken into account, the resource base for the entire formation is potentially much larger. A study provides estimates ranging up to 503 billion barrels of potential resources in place."
Oil in the Bakken isn't gritty, dirty and expensive like the Alberta oil sands.
We're talking light, sweet crude oil - the least expensive and easiest to refine oil out there.
And here's the kicker...

Montana lawmakers recently passed a bill that creates an 18-month tax holiday for oil wells drilled and completed in this area.
This legislation has caused a massive increase in exploration and has blown the top off this hidden ocean of oil.



Since this bill was passed, a small group of investors have been taking advantage of this untapped resource and are making thousands of dollars each month.
"It's a good, old fashioned oil boom," says Dr. Paul Polzin, a University of Montana economist.
One company has been there since the beginning of the Bakken boom... and is already selling its oil to the market. And the best part about it - this company is sharing its Bakken profits with everyday investors.
You see, for the past seven years, this company has distributed its net profits in the form of MONTHLY cash payments. They have sent their shareholders profit-sharing checks for 84 months in a row... and the check amounts are on the rise.

Mark my words, an opportunity like this only comes around once every so often and I can GUARANTEE that this will not remain a secret for much longer.




In fact, some of the local media are beginning to report on it...

  • "People in the region 'are just starting to see the potential' in this new oil play" - Grand Forks Herald, Nov. 4, 2007
  • "The huge potential of the Bakken play has industry and government officials gushing with superlatives." -CanWest News Service, Dec. 10, 2007
  • "Montanan residents with oil royalties have, literally, been made millionaires." -Missoulian.com, Dec. 2, 2007
Spread the word every way you can. Let the world know the jig is up!!!!
This is great news! But it should have been a separate thread in itself.

An additional large, domestic, easy to produce oil find is always good to hear. Finds such as this, coupled with ethanol, biodiesel, on and on, will be a great boon for energy (and lower costs for same). Energy makes the economy go 'round!
 

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Corn for either livestock or people requires VAST inputs of increasingly scarce water plus high nitrogen fertilizer, plus huge amounts of energy to drive the tractors and harvestors.....cellulosic ethanol made from plant waste is likely much more efficient by a high order. As a gardener I stopped growing corn some years back due to the perennial drought here and it being such a hungry thirsty crop.
Yes, corn has never been the best "ultimate" choice from which to make ethanol. But it was the easiest "feedstock" to ramp up production on in a short period. In the future, it is easy to foresee a more efficient (in lower costs, land use, water use, fertilizer use, etc) crop being utilized, or even a new crop created specifically for the task.

We will need to call it the "ethanol plant", so people will not be given the weird "food for fuel" argument.

And, as always, "garbage for fuel" will be a certain winner!
 

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Does anyone watch and read news anymore? Has anyone been to the grocery store lately? Jesus Christ people, are you all idiots?

How many people are going to have to starve so that a few cars can have ethanol? How many children must go without dinner because their parents can no longer afford the food? And what, just so there's some extra biodiesel and ethanol out there?

Ethanol is a waste of time. It actually pollutes more than people think and food prices around the world are skyrocketing. Ethanol doesn't improve mileage, it makes it worse. And don't even try to say "well, it's cheaper than gas". That's a bunch of bs. I was at a station yesterday. Price of regular, $3.41. Price of ethanol. $3.41!!! What a joke.

Biodiesel is the biggest waste of all. It costs the same as regular diesel and is virtually useless since U.S. Automakers will not make diesel cars for the states.

What it comes down to is federal mandates. Period. Our capitalist system has screwed us. The wealthy of America have built their fortunes on the backs of middle-America. It's time to change all this. Food prices need to be fixed. Margins need to be fixed. The fed needs to mandate electric vehicles and pour billions into battery research in order to clean them up.

How many people are going to have to die? How many?

A little over 200 years ago a group of people got fed up with the taxes and high prices. These people got tired of their government not listening to them and not doing anything to help them...

Then they held a little tea party...

We all know what happened after that...and it's a word that may rear it's ugly head again is the wealthy are not careful, because the poor of this country only need to be organized.

It's called Revolution....
 

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What it comes down to is federal mandates. Period. Our capitalist system has screwed us. The wealthy of America have built their fortunes on the backs of middle-America. It's time to change all this. Food prices need to be fixed. Margins need to be fixed. The fed needs to mandate electric vehicles and pour billions into battery research in order to clean them up.

How many people are going to have to die? How many?

A little over 200 years ago a group of people got fed up with the taxes and high prices. These people got tired of their government not listening to them and not doing anything to help them...

Then they held a little tea party...

We all know what happened after that...and it's a word that may rear it's ugly head again is the wealthy are not careful, because the poor of this country only need to be organized.

It's called Revolution....
The result of that little tea party was a battle to throw off the yoke of government taxation and intervention in the everyday affairs of men. Not to add to the intrusions and regulations that choke freedom from society.
Ed
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Does anyone watch and read news anymore? Has anyone been to the grocery store lately? Jesus Christ people, are you all idiots?

How many people are going to have to starve so that a few cars can have ethanol? How many children must go without dinner because their parents can no longer afford the food? And what, just so there's some extra biodiesel and ethanol out there?

Ethanol is a waste of time. It actually pollutes more than people think and food prices around the world are skyrocketing. Ethanol doesn't improve mileage, it makes it worse. And don't even try to say "well, it's cheaper than gas". That's a bunch of bs. I was at a station yesterday. Price of regular, $3.41. Price of ethanol. $3.41!!! What a joke.

Biodiesel is the biggest waste of all. It costs the same as regular diesel and is virtually useless since U.S. Automakers will not make diesel cars for the states.

What it comes down to is federal mandates. Period. Our capitalist system has screwed us. The wealthy of America have built their fortunes on the backs of middle-America. It's time to change all this. Food prices need to be fixed. Margins need to be fixed. The fed needs to mandate electric vehicles and pour billions into battery research in order to clean them up.

How many people are going to have to die? How many?

A little over 200 years ago a group of people got fed up with the taxes and high prices. These people got tired of their government not listening to them and not doing anything to help them...

Then they held a little tea party...

We all know what happened after that...and it's a word that may rear it's ugly head again is the wealthy are not careful, because the poor of this country only need to be organized.

It's called Revolution....
Please stop using religious names in your temper tantrums.

No one is starving because of ethanol. In 2007, the United States produced more corn for food than any time in history. Prices are going up because 1.3 billion Chinese are on average consuming 200 more calories per day than then used to. This new demand for an additional 260 billion calories per day will increase the demand for food and therefore prices go up.

If the price of ethanol is a joke, then don't buy it.

As far as biodiesel being a joke, have you ever heard of companies like Peterbuilt and Kenworth? Have you ever heard terms like Duramax and Cummins? Do you know what diesel-electric locomotives run on? Somebody is buying the half billion gallons they made last year.

And notwithstanding what your government run school may have taught you, the Americans did not revolt because of high prices.
 

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Does anyone watch and read news anymore? Has anyone been to the grocery store lately? Jesus Christ people, are you all idiots?

How many people are going to have to starve so that a few cars can have ethanol? How many children must go without dinner because their parents can no longer afford the food? And what, just so there's some extra biodiesel and ethanol out there?

Ethanol is a waste of time. It actually pollutes more than people think and food prices around the world are skyrocketing. Ethanol doesn't improve mileage, it makes it worse. And don't even try to say "well, it's cheaper than gas". That's a bunch of bs. I was at a station yesterday. Price of regular, $3.41. Price of ethanol. $3.41!!! What a joke.

Biodiesel is the biggest waste of all. It costs the same as regular diesel and is virtually useless since U.S. Automakers will not make diesel cars for the states.

What it comes down to is federal mandates. Period. Our capitalist system has screwed us. The wealthy of America have built their fortunes on the backs of middle-America. It's time to change all this. Food prices need to be fixed. Margins need to be fixed. The fed needs to mandate electric vehicles and pour billions into battery research in order to clean them up.

How many people are going to have to die? How many?

A little over 200 years ago a group of people got fed up with the taxes and high prices. These people got tired of their government not listening to them and not doing anything to help them...

Then they held a little tea party...

We all know what happened after that...and it's a word that may rear it's ugly head again is the wealthy are not careful, because the poor of this country only need to be organized.

It's called Revolution....
Whoa there, Mr. Trotsky! Take it easy, it will take more than this tirade to trigger your Bolshevik revolution!

Have YOU read any news lately? The main driver of higher food prices is higher fuel prices. You know, primarily oil? In spite of using crops (mainly corn) for ethanol production, food crop production (not used for ethanol production) is UP! So there doesn't seem to be any shortage. In fact ethanol production is credited with gasoline prices being 15% LOWER than they would be without ethanol. Every bit of news I've seen shows that ethanol use has prevented food prices from being even HIGHER! So if you've been using any fuel derived from oil, YOU are essentially trading food for fuel!

If you think you can produce the food to feed this country (or anywhere else) with no impact from fuel prices, you must be Amish. And THAT level of food production "productivity" will indeed starve the country (and the world).
 

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Does anyone watch and read news anymore? Has anyone been to the grocery store lately? Jesus Christ people, are you all idiots?

How many people are going to have to starve so that a few cars can have ethanol? How many children must go without dinner because their parents can no longer afford the food? And what, just so there's some extra biodiesel and ethanol out there?

Ethanol is a waste of time. It actually pollutes more than people think and food prices around the world are skyrocketing. Ethanol doesn't improve mileage, it makes it worse. And don't even try to say "well, it's cheaper than gas". That's a bunch of bs. I was at a station yesterday. Price of regular, $3.41. Price of ethanol. $3.41!!! What a joke.

Biodiesel is the biggest waste of all. It costs the same as regular diesel and is virtually useless since U.S. Automakers will not make diesel cars for the states.

What it comes down to is federal mandates. Period. Our capitalist system has screwed us. The wealthy of America have built their fortunes on the backs of middle-America. It's time to change all this. Food prices need to be fixed. Margins need to be fixed. The fed needs to mandate electric vehicles and pour billions into battery research in order to clean them up.

How many people are going to have to die? How many?

A little over 200 years ago a group of people got fed up with the taxes and high prices. These people got tired of their government not listening to them and not doing anything to help them...

Then they held a little tea party...

We all know what happened after that...and it's a word that may rear it's ugly head again is the wealthy are not careful, because the poor of this country only need to be organized.

It's called Revolution....

Which oil company do you work for?
 

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Please stop using religious names in your temper tantrums.

No one is starving because of ethanol. In 2007, the United States produced more corn for food than any time in history. Prices are going up because 1.3 billion Chinese are on average consuming 200 more calories per day than then used to. This new demand for an additional 260 billion calories per day will increase the demand for food and therefore prices go up.

If the price of ethanol is a joke, then don't buy it.

As far as biodiesel being a joke, have you ever heard of companies like Peterbuilt and Kenworth? Have you ever heard terms like Duramax and Cummins? Do you know what diesel-electric locomotives run on? Somebody is buying the half billion gallons they made last year.

And notwithstanding what your government run school may have taught you, the Americans did not revolt because of high prices.
HoosierRon, well said. Do you think he/she made the connection that the majority of food is transported using a diesel engine? If not, here's a video demonstration for them:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=dVjXwS8HzFw
 
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