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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
It's Bloomberg - so remember, numbers should be checked.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=agpCSRNO2Q3M&refer=home

BMW Threatens Lexus as Top-Selling U.S. Luxury Brand (Update2)

By Mike Ramsey

Aug. 8 (Bloomberg) -- Bayerische Motoren Werke AG, buoyed by a new line of small cars, threatens to end the 8-year reign of Toyota Motor Corp.'s Lexus as the No. 1 U.S. luxury brand.

The German automaker's namesake brand topped Lexus in July for the third time in 2008.

BMW, the world's largest maker of luxury cars, trails Lexus by 3,466 sales after 7 months, erasing 90 percent of the gap from the start of the year. -

-``Looking at BMW's lineup with all the gas issues of the day, they may be in better shape than Lexus,'' said Stephanie Brinley, a product researcher with AutoPacific Inc. in Southfield, Michigan. She said Munich-based BMW may pass Lexus by the end of the year.

- The 1-Series generated 7,400 U.S. sales through July that the Munich-based automaker didn't have a year earlier.

- V-8 Engines :

- Lexus this year has introduced a redesigned version of its biggest SUV, the $74,000 LX 570, powered by a 383-horsepower V-8 engine, and the $56,000, 416-horsepower, IS F sports sedan.

- The brand is suffering its biggest decline since Toyota City, Japan- based Toyota unveiled it in 1989.
Lexus and General Motors Corp.'s Cadillac have held the top-luxury-brand title for most of the past seven decades. :lmao: Ford Motor Co.'s Lincoln took the crown from Cadillac in 1998 and ceded it to Daimler AG's Mercedes-Benz a year later. Lexus has held it since.
To be clear - for 'only' the last seven decades ..... Lincoln 1, Mercedes Benz 1, Lexus 8, and Cadillac.... 60.
- Lexus relied on SUVs for 39 percent of its 2007 U.S. sales; BMW's SUVs accounted for 22 percent of its volume.

- To contact the reporter on this story: Mike Ramsey in Southfield, Michigan, at [email protected]
Preliminarily reports from Europe are even worse for Lexus.

Almost the same in Japan.

And one must ask, ( if fully correct ) why wasn't this pointed out by anyone concerning the two earlier months BMW outperformed Lexus ?
 

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Interesting.....more cracks in Toyota's armor?.....if the numbers are correct
 

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Lexus and General Motors Corp.'s Cadillac have held the top-luxury-brand title for most of the past seven decades. Ford Motor Co.'s Lincoln took the crown from Cadillac in 1998 .....


This gave me a headache. It makes no sense.
 

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This gave me a headache. It makes no sense.
Which part... Cadillac surrendering its crown, or the fact that it surrendered to Lincoln?

The second part is easy... 1998 was the only year Lincoln has the Town Car, Continental, Mark, and Navigator all being sold together.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Interesting.....more cracks in Toyota's armor?.....if the numbers are correct
Appears that they are for July 2008.

BMW exclusive of Mini = 23,914.

Lexus ( all types ) = 22,182.

For comparison, in July 2007 the same was

BMW 24,295

Lexus 27,141

**************

Perhaps the most interesting number concerning Lexus versus Cadillac in the US, is that while overall this isn't shaping up as a great year for Cadillac, they have gained ground on Lexus.

Last year by the end of July 2007, Cadillac had 61.44% of Lexus sales volume

This year, that YTD number is 64.40%

YTD 2008 vs. YTD 2007, Cadillac has lost 13,372 units, and Lexus has lost more than double that at 28,450.

Again for comparison's sake, BMW has lost 13,447.

The reason why the same approx total unit loss means 'some good' things for BMW and not as strongly so for Cadillac is that BMW starts with a larger base number in 2007.
 

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What fools these people are. I work in the service and parts departments of a GM dealership. Every single BMW and/or european car that comes thru as a used car, have so many problems with them it isn't funny. We get more BMW's than any other. They actually aquire more problems after they have been put on the lot. The are falling apart in front of our eyes.
I wont buy anything but American iron anyway, but if I had to buy foreign, I would take the Lexus over the europeans anyday !!!!!

It's Bloomberg - so remember, numbers should be checked.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=agpCSRNO2Q3M&refer=home

To be clear - for 'only' the last seven decades ..... Lincoln 1, Mercedes Benz 1, Lexus 8, and Cadillac.... 60.


Preliminarily reports from Europe are even worse for Lexus.

Almost the same in Japan.

And one must ask, ( if fully correct ) why wasn't this pointed out by anyone concerning the two earlier months BMW outperformed Lexus ?
 

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Yeah, I really feel sorry for them. They've stuck it to everyone else, and even though I'd like to see Cadillac be the one to put them down off their pedestal, it's still about time.
 

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I love hearing any bad news regarding toyota/lexus failing!

I thought it was common knowledge that cadillac held it for that long and the whole time lincoln was fighting to beat them in sales,
they were at each others throats right from day 1, thats where the whole ford vs chevy thing comes from too

Appears that they are for July 2008.

BMW exclusive of Mini = 23,914.

Lexus ( all types ) = 22,182.

For comparison, in July 2007 the same was

BMW 24,295

Lexus 27,141

**************

Perhaps the most interesting number concerning Lexus versus Cadillac in the US, is that while overall this isn't shaping up as a great year for Cadillac, they have gained ground on Lexus.

Last year by the end of July 2007, Cadillac had 61.44% of Lexus sales volume

This year, that YTD number is 64.40%

YTD 2008 vs. YTD 2007, Cadillac has lost 13,372 units, and Lexus has lost more than double that at 28,450.

Again for comparison's sake, BMW has lost 13,447.

The reason why the same approx total unit loss means 'some good' things for BMW and not as strongly so for Cadillac is that BMW starts with a larger base number in 2007.
this is really interesting
 

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What fools these people are. I work in the service and parts departments of a GM dealership. Every single BMW and/or european car that comes thru as a used car, have so many problems with them it isn't funny. We get more BMW's than any other. They actually acquire more problems after they have been put on the lot. The are falling apart in front of our eyes.
I've talked to some honest BMW owners about this, and the honest ones simply don't care if it breaks. When their cars break, they use the wife's/husband's (so long as IT isn't 8 feet in the air) and then brag about having a Beemer. Of the three that I know, two of them brag about the car being worth the grief and $$$ it costs them in status alone.

I still maintain that true reliability is not people's first concern, even if they say it is, and neither is fuel mileage; it's all about image. It's why people here in downtown Frozen PolarBearville drive Dodge Rams with Cummins diesels to go to the store and buy a loaf of bread, and have never had anything bigger than a toolbox in the custom lined bed of the thing.

People don't care about the cost of the car, or the price of fuel; they care about what other people drive, and what the auto press tells them to drive.
 

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Good to see Cadillac getting closer to No. 1 even though it has lost a bit of sales (due to the economy). Hopefully BMW takes it this year!
 

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To be clear - for 'only' the last seven decades ..... Lincoln 1, Mercedes Benz 1, Lexus 8, and Cadillac.... 60.

Ha Ha Ha ... sounds like the Red Sox vs. the Yankees (and I'm a Sox fan) :D
 

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BMW isn't getting these sales easily though. A few weeks ago, I got an e-mail from a local BMW dealer saying everything in their inventory is being sold at invoice price (only exclusions were X6 and 135 that had just launched and Ms). This week, I got a 0.9% APR financing offer on anything, including Ms.

I've talked to some honest BMW owners about this, and the honest ones simply don't care if it breaks. When their cars break, they use the wife's/husband's (so long as IT isn't 8 feet in the air) and then brag about having a Beemer. Of the three that I know, two of them brag about the car being worth the grief and $$$ it costs them in status alone.
That's why it's a luxury. Plenty of us would go to the trouble of making advance reservations or waiting in line for a table at a good restaurant instead of walking straight in and getting a table at a bad restaurant, right? It's the same with cars -- sometimes the hassle is worth it.
 

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BMW and Cadillac are my two favorite brands, and a BMW recently saved my life.

I'd buy another BMW, gladly. My 3-series was also very reliable and cheap to own and maintain. Other models can be a pain, like the 7-series.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
I love hearing any bad news regarding toyota/lexus failing!
Well, at this point I wonder ......is an extremely sophisticated - in more than one way...........unintended acceleration plus fire story possible, say regarding the ES.... amongst others ?

I thought it was common knowledge that Cadillac held it for that long and the whole time Lincoln was fighting to beat them in sales,
they were at each others throats right from day 1, thats where the whole ford vs chevy thing comes from too
Yes, although there were others that mattered as well - especially pre WWII.

this is really interesting
There are many more.

Here is a few of the others.

This is all in reference to 2007YTD vs. 2008 YTD ie Jan thru July.

Last year, Cadillac had 58.71% of Lexus volume in terms of cars.

This year, its now 71.20%.

The even more interesting thing is why - and what that shows.

Cadillac is down only 635 cars YTD to 67,267 from 67,902.

Lexus is down 21,187 cars YTD to 94,478 from 115,665.

Now the shocker - as if that wasn't enough.

Basically 3/4 s of Lexus 2008 sales volume loss (USA) is in their cars, and not in their 'trucks'.

To be more precise, the cars represent 74.47% of the 2008 YTD sales volume loss.

As a group, the same for Cadillac is less than 1%.

The success of the CTS, and the extra helping of fail at Lexus beyond industry or segment 'norms' pretty much explains all this - that and the larger platform count at Lexus ( 4 vs 5 ).

*************

Some other Ytd.

The CTS Ytd, has now outsold all Lexus product except the ES - which it will catch this month or next - for sure. CTS is at 37,252 (+ 34.11%) and the ES is at 36,719 (- 18.15%).

Worth noting, the IS series is at 31,010 (- 4.78%).

The STS is also now slightly ahead of the entire GS series combined .....10,790 (-2.97%) vs 10,356 (-21.08%)

The DTS, which is struggling - is still substantially ahead of the LS series (all) - which is struggling even more .

The DTS Ytd is at 18,387 ( - 33.78% ) but the all new flagship LS series is at 10,356 ( - 35.76% ).


To round out the crude but useful comparison here, the SC series at 1,373 is outselling the XLR at 838 Ytd.

Worth noting on that the XLR is down - 28.07% and the SC is off - 57.21%.

Note: All these numbers are non adjusted - if they were the negative % for all would be worse.

***************

There are more interesting numbers and trends - and some real analysis about this entire brand segment - not just about volume.

IMO, the reason why this is not being done is that Lexus will look bad, real bad in almost all comparisons that matter most.
 
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