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Electric car drivers could cause blackouts if they charge their vehicles at 'on peak' times during the day, an MP has warned.

Tory MP Huw Merriman, chair of the Commons Transport Select Committee, said owners should be incentivised to recharge batteries 'little but often' to avoid shortages.

Electric cars have been forecast to create extra 18GW demand for power in UK at peak times by 2050, according to the National Grid. That is the equivalent of six Hinkley Point nuclear power stations.

Huw Merriman told the Transport Committee yesterday: 'Unless the National Grid gains more capacity, consumer behaviour will have to alter so that charging takes place when supply can meet the additional demand.

'The alternative will be blackouts in parts of the country. We also cannot have a repeat of the broadband and mobile 'not spot' lottery which would mean those in remote parts cannot join the electric vehicle revolution.

'To help consumers see their route to a zero emission world, choosing to run an electric vehicle must be as seamless as possible.'

Electric car battery sizes range from around 17.6kWh up to 100kWh. The average cost of electricity per kWh is 17.2p, meaning the smallest models cost around £3 to charge on a normal three-pronged domestic plug versus £17 for the largest ones.

The time taken to charge electric cars varies dramatically depending on the type of charger.

The Transport Committee argues that motorists should be persuaded to charge cars at times when the National Grid can meet total demand, such as overnight.

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There is currently a shortage of charging points across the country as electric car usage continues to grow.

During its inquiry, the committee heard evidence from energy industry representatives that smart chargers - which alter the amount of electricity sent to a car depending on overall demand - will play a crucial role.

The report called on ministers to work with National Grid to identify locations where the system will not be able to cope with additional usage.

It stressed the importance of protecting consumers recharging in public from excessive fees and a requirement to hold multiple accounts.

The report said: 'The Government must mandate that industry uses price as a lever to move consumer behaviour away from conventional refuelling habits towards 'a little but often' approach.'

During its inquiry, the committee heard evidence from energy industry representatives that smart chargers - which alter the amount of electricity sent to a car depending on overall demand - will play a crucial role.


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The Government plans to ban sales of new petrol and diesel cars from 2030, with hybrids prohibited from 2035.
Just 11% of new car registrations last year were for ultra-low emission cars.

A Department for Transport spokeswoman said: 'Our vision is to have one of the best electric vehicle infrastructure networks in the world.

'As more people make the switch to electric, we want charge points to be accessible and affordable right across the country, which is why we welcome the Transport Select Committee's report.

'Alongside our new ambitious phase-out dates, we have announced £1.3 billion to accelerate the rollout of charging infrastructure, targeting support on motorways and major A roads to dash any anxiety around long journeys, and installing more on-street charge points near homes and workplaces to make charging as easy as refuelling a petrol or diesel car.'
Graeme Cooper, head of future markets at National Grid, said: 'We'll be working with Government to map out where critical grid capacity is needed to enable the faster rollout of charging points.

'But also looking a step ahead to the needs of electric or hydrogen trucks and other forms of transport.
'There will be an uptick in demand for energy so we need to ensure that we are future proofing, putting the right wires in the right place for future demand.'

Their report comes less than a week after the Competition and Markets Authority raised its own concerns over the slow roll-out of nation's public charging network and an existing postcode lottery of charge points.

It called for an increased roll-out of rapid devices so that charging an EV could be 'as simple as filling up with petrol or diesel'.

The Transport Committee's paper provides a raft of recommendations to improve the public charging network in Britain, amid fears that there will be an infrastructure postcode lottery, with drivers in rural and remote areas and those without off-street parking having limited access to devices.

It wants the Government to make public charge provision a requirement of local development - and provide funding for local planning and transport bodies to hire staff with a mandate to deliver charging infrastructure.

It also calls for protection for drivers from excessive costs and to tackle the tax discrepancy between charging at home and using a public device.

Currently, just 5 per cent VAT is incurred for home charging, while those using on-street devices face the full 20 per cent rate.

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The report also called for a Zero Emission Vehicle mandate by 2035 to boost both the manufacturing and sales of new electric vehicles, requiring those who sell the fewest electric vehicles to buy credits from those who produce the most.

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These credits could then be used to cut the purchase price of a new electric car.

MPs on the committee said that 'shifting the subsidy from the taxpayer to the manufacturer will incentivise those who deliver the fewest electric vehicles in our showrooms to up their game'.

Randolph Brazier, Director of Innovation and Electricity Systems at Energy Networks Association which represents the UK and Ireland's energy networks businesses said: 'A smart, flexible grid is the most efficient and reliable option for us to hit Net Zero - one which we are paving the way towards with our world-leading flexibility markets and intelligent systems.

'Allowing early investment in the electricity networks now and making sure that charging points are smart will empower customers across the country, keeping their costs down and making sure that they see the full benefit of their electric vehicles.'

LINK

Nuclear power currently supplies about 16% of the UK’s electricity, its existing fleet of reactors are approaching the end of their operating lives. With the exception of Sizewell B being closed in 2035, and Hinkley Point C, which is under construction, all of the UK’s existing nuclear power plants 6 are to be closed decommissioned by the end of 2030.

So UK will need 6 nuclear plants to power it's electric car fleet in the future, only has 1, and it takes at least 10 years to get a nuclear power station up and running from conception, to beating down all the NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard) local nuclear protesters down to delivering electric power, it could all end in tears.

Oddest idea is punishing fining low volume EV car makers after 2035 as only EV's will be permitted to be sold after that date, looks like the expensive quality car producers will have to buy credits from the mass car producers. Rich will be subsidizing poor replacing the British Government subsidies EV credits.
 

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Hey England!...GOOD LUCK!!!
:eek:Eh, OH HEAVEN FORBID, SAY IT AIN"T SO. Add a WE TOLD YA SO to it as well.:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:😛😛😛😛. Next, what becomes of us over here? We have enough of our own problems with the grid even before these said 'lectric's become even more of a "thing".
This is Central Planning's unforeseen outcomes. Central Planners sit in their lofty offices making unreal wages compared to their skillset and productivity and usefulness. But they have POWER, and what they need is the other kind of power, lektrik power, whose limitations they seem quite unaware of.

 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Most people can't park exactly outside their homes, sometime have to park a hundred yards away from their house as its the only available nearest parking space, especially as in this picture you can only park on one side of the road..


Can just imaging the trip hazards when everybody owns an electric up the street.



Can just imagine how dangerous plugging these extension leads will be in heavy rain, yobs will kick them for six, after they trip on them or cut the cables, some will steal the extortion leads that live in 30 storey flats, neighbours that don't get on will be pulling the plug out, the footpaths will become a messy mass of cables up this road. Nothing seems very well thought out.

Then the power cuts means you won't be able be able to do your 30 mile commute to work for a few days, new gas powered central system boilers are getting banned after 2030, legislation is forcing in electric heating in homes so thousands elderly will die freeze to death end up killing more than global warming ever would have in the real world.
 

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Most people can't park exactly outside their homes, sometime have to park a hundred yards away from their house as its the only available nearest parking space, especially as in this picture you can only park on one side of the road..


Can just imaging the trip hazards when everybody owns an electric up the street.



Can just imagine how dangerous plugging these extension leads will be in heavy rain, yobs will kick them for six, after they trip on them or cut the cables, some will steal the extortion leads that live in 30 storey flats, neighbours that don't get on will be pulling the plug out, the footpaths will become a messy mass of cables up this road. Nothing seems very well thought out.

Then the power cuts means you won't be able be able to do your 30 mile commute to work for a few days, new gas powered central system boilers are getting banned after 2030, legislation is forcing in electric heating in homes so thousands elderly will die freeze to death end up killing more than global warming ever would have in the real world.
And imagine what'll happen when you wake up in the morning only to find a bunch of teens have unplugged all of the cars on the street.

City BEV-life is definitely a hurdle that needs to be overcome. Today's slow charging batteries appear to be fine for suburban homeowners, but ill suited for apartment dwellers. But, sounds like upcoming batteries will have shorter charge times, taking away the need to charge at home and therefore be more practical for city people.
 

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Central planning is working out very well
Just ask Ivan how CP has worked out over the decades. Or should I say over the Ten Year Plans? "We pretend to work and they pretend to pay us." Shoddy crap junk imitation-USA cars by the dumpster-full.

And imagine what'll happen when you wake up in the morning only to find a bunch of teens have unplugged all of the cars on the street.

City BEV-life is definitely a hurdle that needs to be overcome. Today's slow charging batteries appear to be fine for suburban homeowners, but ill suited for apartment dwellers. But, sounds like upcoming batteries will have shorter charge times, taking away the need to charge at home and therefore be more practical for city people.
How is this a problemo? All the Central Planners will make provisions for themselves. Should they abandon their black ICE limos. Which is not going to happen anytime soon.
 

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This is the end result when you have worthless know nothing, never had a real job in their entire lifetime, politicians in charge making these decisions. The funny part here is them acting like it is just people not charging them at the right time, clearly they are too much for the delipidated grids to handle but let's continue the charade i guess. This is the same cart before the horse syndrome that the idiots in California are going through right now.
 

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Wait, wait, wait. You mean you have to replenish the electricity inside these things? No one ever told us that! Where is it supposed to come from? I thought the road was going to take care of that while I drove!
 

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Does anyone really believe that everyone's not going to plug in as soon as they get home from work? I would...
Combine that with smart thermostats that are timed to fire up the A/C at the same time and you got a recipe for a whole lotta Not Good.

Electric car battery sizes range from around 17.6kWh up to 100kWh. The average cost of electricity per kWh is 17.2p, meaning the smallest models cost around £3 to charge on a normal three-pronged domestic plug versus £17 for the largest ones.
Well, the largest ones aren't gonna need a full charge every day.
 

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Wait, wait, wait. You mean you have to replenish the electricity inside these things? No one ever told us that! Where is it supposed to come from? I thought the road was going to take care of that while I drove!
The UK's smart roads are coming!
 

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The UK's smart roads are coming!
Yes, soon, very soon. Also, LBJ's poverty program will end hunger as we know it. That's why I keep seeing ads begging for hepp for starving 250 pound children.

I wouldn't have a "smart" thermostat on a bet. You let an outside entity have potential control of your internal systems, you're looking for trouble. Now put your mask on, lock your doors, and don't go to work until November.
 

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Coming to a Country Near You!

I just don't get it. An Infrastructure that barely supports itself today, add 200,-300,000 power robbing units a year to the Infrastructure's needs. Add 8-12 hours to the standard 5 minute fuel up time/unit.

Yet, Nobody sees a problem coming?
The infrastructure can be solved for most but at the rate the government wants this stuff done (taxes) there will be some pain involved.

Even if infrastructure is solved there are way bigger problems in the very near future as electric cars become more prevalent throughout the word.

If you take the time to read the below it’s pretty obvious there are real problems ahead.


The world needs to find ways to reduce carbon gas emissions below today’s levels. My intent is not to disagree with the Green Movement but rather to provide some food for thought and deal with the question of whether the movement’s goals are within the art of the possible.
The International Energy Agency (IEA), regarded as the most important source for energy information, recently released a 287-page report titled “The Role of Critical Minerals in Clean Energy Transitions.” Here are some findings:
Green Movement demands for minerals will explode by an estimated 4,200 percent (lithium), 2,500 percent (graphite), 1,900 percent (nickel) and 700 percent (“rare-Earth metals”).

These new mineral requirements translate into a massively enlarged mining industry, greater transportation, more/new refinement facilities and infrastructure that does not exist, and there are currently no plans to build them. This will cost at least hundreds of billions if not trillions of dollars. On average it takes over 16 years to move a mining operation from discovery to production. If we had a plan, 2036 would be the start point for putting a battery in the 1 billion vehicles in the world (290 million in the U.S.)
Electric vehicles (EV) currently account for about 30 percent of U.S. carbon emissions. One electric car battery weighs about 1,000 pounds with an average life of 7-10 years. To produce one battery requires processing about 250 tons of raw materials such as cadmium, cobalt, lead, lithium and nickel. To put a battery in every vehicle in the world — the Green Movement goal — would take 250 billion tons of Earth materials every 7-10 years.

Vehicles in the U.S. travel about 3 trillion miles per year, 10,344 miles per vehicle. The average EV can travel 200-300 miles per charge requiring about 40 recharges per year. Forty charges per year for 290 million U.S. vehicles equals 11.6 billion charging actions and probably 30-40 billion for the world. This represents an entirely new requirement for electricity. Where will it come from? The sun and the wind, says the Green Movement.

The American Wind Energy Association says it takes about 230 tons of steel, more than a thousand tons of concrete and 45 tons of nonrecyclable plastic blades to make a single wind turbine; all with a life-cycle of around 20 years.
To produce half the world’s electricity from wind, we will need about 3 million more turbines. Three million turbines at 230 tons of steel each equals about 690 million tons of steel from about 1 billion tons of iron ore. Then, in about 20 years another billion tons of iron ore. At what point do we exhaust the Earth’s supply of mineable iron ore?
As for solar, solar panels require rare-Earth materials which are not currently mined in the U.S. Demand for these elements is expected to rise 250-1000 percent by 2050. Additionally, solar requires even more cement and steel than wind turbines to produce the same amount of electricity.
Also consider that China controls the majority of existing sources of copper (45 percent,) nickel (40 percent,) cobalt (60 percent,) lithium (55 percent) and rare earth metals (80 percent.) Today, the U.S. is not even a player. We are currently 100 percent dependent on imports for 17 key minerals. For another 29, over half of our needs are imported.



Final thoughts, a wake-up call:
Supply and demand: Every day the requirement for electricity goes up and the supply of minerals goes down. Last year, about 400,000 natural gas workers produced about 35 percent of U.S. electric power. The same size labor force, 400,000, accounted for solar’s miniscule 0.9 percent share. At some point the cost of electricity will approach prohibitive numbers. Will the cost of an EV battery be out of reach for most of the world’s population?
Mining, transporting and refining billions of tons of earth materials will create a new and massive carbon footprint which could conceivably be greater than that saved by electric vehicles.
The Green Movement is based on a false premise; that is, wind and solar are “renewable.” Technically yes, but in order to harness wind and sun it will be necessary to process billions of tons of minerals, not an ounce of which is “renewable.”

The new demand for minerals will require huge quantities of water and about half the known lithium and copper sources are in water-shortage areas.

https://www.thepilot.com/opini...b2-c3b373ca5197.html

Ecoregion Tire Automotive tire Vehicle Infrastructure
 

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Yes, big swede, the looming problems are, in a nutshell, called reality. Which does't exist in Central Planning sessions or in Greenie Brainstorming Conventions. This puppy won't fly.

Perhaps that's the ultimate goal. Cause the peasantry to become increasingly immobile and dependent on mass transit. That makes it easier to round them up and send them to the Soylent Green factories.

Coming to a Country Near You!

I just don't get it. An Infrastructure that barely supports itself today, add 200,-300,000 power robbing units a year to the Infrastructure's needs. Add 8-12 hours to the standard 5 minute fuel up time/unit.

Yet, Nobody sees a problem coming?
Yes, "renewable." Except when it doesn't work, like at night or when there's no wind. Petrol MADE the 20th century, and it will make the 21st century if the brain trust would step out of the way. Or get pushed.
 
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This is Central Planning's unforeseen outcomes. Central Planners sit in their lofty offices making unreal wages compared to their skillset and productivity and usefulness. But they have POWER, and what they need is the other kind of power, lektrik power, whose limitations they seem quite unaware of.



Yes, big swede, the looming problems are, in a nutshell, called reality. Which does't exist in Central Planning sessions or in Greenie Brainstorming Conventions. This puppy won't fly.

Perhaps that's the ultimate goal. Cause the peasantry to become increasingly immobile and dependent on mass transit. That makes it easier to round them up and send them to the Soylent Green factories.
Dammit, if you had just thrown in agitprop I'd have gotten BINGO.
 

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Thanks for posting Big Swede. Exactly why I've been saying the idea we'll all be driving 'lectric by some arbitrary date is just pie in the sky.

The replacement for most of the ICE usage isn't here yet. It may not come in the near future. All of you who love driving your 'lectric cars are right. They ARE fun to drive. And they are simple and should be cheap to maintain. But all of that is flat out denial of the big picture of what it would take for a wholesale change. Your fun comes at a price that just might be too high.
 
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