[63GrandSport001]

I think alot of people on this site should do there history on the UAW and the big 3 before they start all of the bashing. The UAW helped set the standard for alot of the safty rules in todays work places. Thats just 1 thing, I could go on and on

This is a point lost to many American's today, the fact that unions have done a great deal of good for us all.

It was not the UAW that made any of the bad choices that got GM into the position that it was in today.

It was GM who made the choice not to make products that could compete which allowed Japanese automakers to get a foot hold in America.

Yet its those union workers who have to pay for the bad choices made by GM.

 

[psece]

Because China's currency is pegged to the dollar, there are very few environmental or labor laws that are enforced in China, Chinese factories do not have to pay $8,000 a year for health insurance, they don't have to pay 7.5% for social security, they don't have to pay unemployment benefits or worker comp insurance, and China does not have any ever increasing minimum wage.

That's why.

I knew I had too much hope. Thanks for the reality check HoosierRon. As Thomas Jefferson said "I hold it, that a little rebellion, now and then, is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical."

 

[YupYupYup]

Why pick on Wal-Mart where do you think Target-Kmart-Myer's and others get there items. They get them the same place as Walmart dose. If the UAW strikes it's just another nail in there coffin.:yup:

Exactly...The only reason they do not target those stores is because they are not the top of their industries. It is the same protester crowd that targets "evil" Starbucks. Notice a trend here? Only the most successful companies with no unions are targeted as "evil." The other, smaller companies, who have sometimes much worse labor and trade practices, get off free.

To all those that bash Wal-Mart and are pro-union: if you continue scoff at Wal-Mart and anyone who even remotely talks about them in a good light, you are only doing yourself a disservice. Sure, they are not perfect...But then again, neither are those companies who are unionized and not as successful. I have seen hard analyses that also shows positives of companies such as Wal-Mart. If you try to quash/ silence any other opinion but your own, as unions always seem to want to do for their own agenda, then you will just have a backlash. If you haven't noticed, your rhetoric and name-calling hasn't done anything to stop or change the success of the Wal-Mart's, Starbucks', etc. of the world. You just make them more popular, whether they are perfect or not...Maybe it is time you allowed a more balanced debate, with other sources of "facts."

By the way, check out my link too!

 

[YupYupYup]

This is a point lost to many American's today, the fact that unions have done a great deal of good for us all.

It was not the UAW that made any of the bad choices that got GM into the position that it was in today.

It was GM who made the choice not to make products that could compete which allowed Japanese automakers to get a foot hold in America.

Yet its those union workers who have to pay for the bad choices made by GM.

I think you meant to say "did" a great deal of good. Not anymore...One day they started to get politcal and spend all of their members' money on political agendas, not what the worker needed and deserved through their hard-earned union dues. They have thrown all their eggs into one political basket and lost because of it.

To the pro-union, anti-Wal-Marters of the world: Can you accept other opinions and sources of "facts" concerning unions and Wal-Mart in general? I will be the first to say that Wal-Mart is not perfect...But I never hear union people say this about their union, or unionized companies. They usually just bully and/ or threaten anyone who is not in lock-step with their propaganda or way of thinking. Voting anyone? Forced union dues for support of political candidates that the union member might not support?

Unions need to take a long, hard look at themselves. Sure, there are good people who are union members...Our friends, family, etc. But it is they who are headed downwards...Union membership is spiralling downwards for a good reason..."Evil", non-unionized Wal-Mart and Starbucks are both just geting larger and more successful in the world. Union tactics, such as strike threats, are not working anymore. If they continue to confrontational and threatening, there soon won't be any unions in this world to "work for the little guy." Think about it for a while...

 

[Bigbee60]

The Fairfax plant in Kansas City, Kan., builds the Malibu sedan. The 2,700 workers there do not have a local contract despite negotiations since GM signed its national contract with the UAW in September.

I never understood the need for local contracts when you have a national one??? Why bother with a national contract if every plant gets a second unique one? No wonder GM, Ford, and Chrysler can't get work rules standard - everybody gets their own playbook locally.

 

[LBTheDawg]

The Government has stayed out of these situations and a a result we are entering a depression...........

Who's "government" are you refering to?

"Our" government has stayed out of any "evil" "protectionist" involvement. And why has already been explained in this thread.

I don't understand the hysteria about a strike call at Fairfax. Do any of you know the issues? Nobody here has listed any of them but they sure as heck are painting the UAW in a bad light. Sure wish I knew why. The national agreement was negotiated how many months ago? Local issues can be as simple as parking spots or resolution of open greivances. But from the response to the original post there are a lot of people willing to damn the UAW no matter what the situation is. I wonder how the UAW gets discussed off these boards if that's the prevailing attitude.

Hoosier Ron is right, or my interpretation of his sentiment is that he wonders why nationalism by Americans for Americans is unfashionable. But I consider the people and the so-called issues we are bombarded with when we enter a voting booth to choose and then I understand. When they feel the only way to get or keep a political job is to attack each other why does it surprise anybody how they treat us? And how do they lead us about how to treat each other?

 

[YupYupYup]

I think alot of people on this site should do there history on the UAW and the big 3 before they start all of the bashing. The UAW helped set the standard for alot of the safty rules in todays work places. Thats just 1 thing, I could go on and on

And I agree with you on this...Problem is we are living in today not yesterday, and we have to think about tomorrow...

This is not personal, Shawn Wuan, because I value your work on this board. But you might want to scoot on over to UnionFacts.org just to get a little more balanced (another viewpoint) perspective on where the unions are today and where they seem to be headed. Not all are bad, but you might want to look up your union to see what is really going on.

Honestly, union membership is at 12% or so and declining fast. It might be in your best interest to listen to others so that you can adjust union strategy to stop the membership/ support bleeding...Otherwise it is only a matter of time and there will be no unions left to talk about.

 

[LBTheDawg]

I never understood the need for local contracts when you have a national one??? Why bother with a national contract if every plant gets a second unique one? No wonder GM, Ford, and Chrysler can't get work rules standard - everybody gets their own playbook locally.

None of the plants are the same. Staffing, overtime, until somebody can ad does list what specific issues the UAW is negotiating at Fairax this arguement is pure nonsense.

Cripes, this is just like so many other UAW themed threads on this board.

 

[TJ95GAGT]

What contract has this factory been operating under? Under the old contract? The new national contract?

If its the old contract, why are they striking to change it? Seems to me they should want the old the one in place as long as possible if any change will be bad.

 

[EldoFan]

Unions need to take a long, hard look at themselves. Sure, there are good people who are union members...Our friends, family, etc. But it is they who are headed downwards...Union membership is spiralling downwards for a good reason..."Evil", non-unionized Wal-Mart and Starbucks are both just geting larger and more successful in the world. Union tactics, such as strike threats, are not working anymore. If they continue to confrontational and threatening, there soon won't be any unions in this world to "work for the little guy." Think about it for a while...

Exactly!! :yup:

 

[bow]

If you want to understand why unions are here and why they fight so hard all you have to do is go to all the union threads here and read the words from the union haters. They spout out words like overpriced, unskilled, uneducated, non-deserving, unmotivated, lazy, global economy, market value and a host of other negatives. If you guys had your way people with only a high school diploma would be making poverty wages because that is all they deserve. If I remember correctly, the USA used to be the standards bearer, it seems you want the USA to follow the third world countries in the use of their slave labor. The unions have to deal with the haters every day, they know what to expect and know what it takes to deal with them. They are protecting their workers and until you are a member in such an organization you will never understand one. The corporate world is dog eat dog were the only thing that has your back are the knives that people put in it to move upward.

As far as Wal-Mart goes, please educate yourself on the company before you make such ludicrous statements about how wonderful they are. Start with this congressional committees' findings. http://www.mindfully.org/Industry/2004/Wal-Mart-Labor-Record16feb04.htm

Wal-mart is far worse today than when that committee was published.

 

[TedReminder]

It is amazing how little most of you actually know about GM and the UAW. Most that I read in here is bashing. Trouble is, the bashers are ignorant of the facts.
I did my 30 yrs at 5 GM plants and think I have a pretty good understanding of how things work concerning GM/UAW.
The bashers strike me as McDonalds bottom level "managers". Just enough education to express themself, but with zero knowledge of what they speak of.
Ted

 

[silentgarth]

The more they hurt GM, the less chance they have of keeping decent wages. If the UAW had any brains, they'd let their workers take pay cuts, then strike in the future when GM is loaded with money.

That makes way too much sense.onder:

I wold not mind buying a car that is made in Mexico. Made by somebody that is grateful they have a job. And not by somebody that is looking for a reason to strike.

 

[silentgarth]

It is amazing how little most of you actually know about GM and the UAW. Most that I read in here is bashing. Trouble is, the bashers are ignorant of the facts.
I did my 30 yrs at 5 GM plants and think I have a pretty good understanding of how things work concerning GM/UAW.
The bashers strike me as McDonalds bottom level "managers". Just enough education to express themself, but with zero knowledge of what they speak of.
Ted

He make point!! Y dount u olaborate, 4 us knukle draggers. Why is the UAW striking/ going to strike in the plants?

 

[TJ95GAGT]

It is amazing how little most of you actually know about GM and the UAW. Most that I read in here is bashing. Trouble is, the bashers are ignorant of the facts.
I did my 30 yrs at 5 GM plants and think I have a pretty good understanding of how things work concerning GM/UAW.
The bashers strike me as McDonalds bottom level "managers". Just enough education to express themself, but with zero knowledge of what they speak of.
Ted

Fact is those bottom level managers that do not work at a UAW plant see things differently. When the average person wants more money, or wants to avoid a pay cut, they search out another job. When the average person sees someone else, who in their opinion may make to much money may have a problem with them not showing up to work and everything being A OK when they come back x days later.

Just like how a UAW worker may possibly think its unfair for a white collar guy in GM to make more money, people outside of the UAW doing similar work or maybe more work are going to think its unfair that UAW workers can just walk off the job and still have said job. Its going to happen both ways.

Lastly, this is the internet, people are going to express themselves how they see fit, knowledgeable or not. You should get used to it.

 

[silentgarth]

Fact is those bottom level managers that do not work at a UAW plant see things differently. When the average person wants more money, or wants to avoid a pay cut, they search out another job. When the average person sees someone else, who in their opinion may make to much money may have a problem with them not showing up to work and everything being A OK when they come back x days later.

Just like how a UAW worker may possibly think its unfair for a white collar guy in GM to make more money, people outside of the UAW doing similar work or maybe more work are going to think its unfair that UAW workers can just walk off the job and still have said job.

Lastly, this is the internet, people are going to express themselves how they see fit, knowledgeable or not. You should get used to it.

:clap: Well said. If I demanded more money then said I'm not comming back until you pay me more. My boss would fire my ass then hire somebody else to do the job. It is not that hard to train somebody.

 

[YupYupYup]

If

As far as Wal-Mart goes, please educate yourself on the company before you make such ludicrous statements about how wonderful they are. Start with this congressional committees' findings. http://www.mindfully.org/Industry/2004/Wal-Mart-Labor-Record16feb04.htm

Wal-mart is far worse today than when that committee was published.

See, that is exactly where you are wrong. You just proved my point. Whenever somebody has a different opinion or shows different facts, you shoot them down, steal their newspapapers/ ads showing a different view, or directly threaten them and call them stupid. All I caled for was a free debate...I didn't say they were perfect, just like I said all union members are definitely not bad people. What I said was they are only targeted because they are rich and non-unionized. There are plenty of other worse companies out there that are not brought up because they are unionized or not the top of the game where haters can get attention attacking them. Then again, there are even worse government insitutions who waste our tax dollars all the time. But I guess many don't go after them because they are unionized.

We have seen the hate-filled protests targeted at Wal-Mart many times, but anyone who might show the good points is blasted at at every step. Well, if you haven't noticed all the protests and propaganda have failed to unionize Wal-Mart or stop it from being so successful on a global scale (beats some Japanese or Chinese store owning the world stage, doesn't it). When your message is not working, why beat the same drum?

To the Wal-Mart/ non-unionized company haters, can you name any good points that Wal-Mart does for the country?

 

[bow]

The link I provided for Wal mart is not the Unions views or some wackos view, it is the final report of our Governments study of the company. Our very own government states that anything good done by Wal mart is negated because of the tactics they use to achieve them. Just this one snippet from the report shows the tip of the iceberg.

In the end, because they cannot afford the company health plan, many Wal-Mart workers must turn to public assistance for health care or forego their health care needs altogether. Effectively, Wal-Mart forces taxpayers to subsidize what should be a company-funded health plan. According to a study by the Institute for Labor and Employment at the University of California-Berkeley, California taxpayers subsidized $20.5 million worth of medical care for Wal-Mart in that state alone.[48] In fact, Wal-Mart personnel offices, knowing employees cannot afford the company health plan, actually encourage employees to apply for charitable and public assistance, according to a recent report by the PBS news program Now With Bill Moyers

http://www.mindfully.org/Industry/2004/Wal-Mart-Labor-Record16feb04.htm

Wal mart is a whole other discussion on a completely different board though.

 

[member12]

UAW........Helping make Toyota the number 1 automaker for 30 years.

They are taking GM, Ford, and Chrysler down with them along with Michigan and the USA.

I have had crappy employers before, and I end up sticking it out as long as I can until I find something better and move on. If I hadn't left when I did, I'd be stuck there now because not a lot of people are taking on new hires this quarter. I don't understand where the since of entitlement comes from that people expect guaranteed jobs, pay, and amazing benefits for not bringing any outside knowledge to the table.

It is amazing how little most of you actually know about GM and the UAW. Most that I read in here is bashing. Trouble is, the bashers are ignorant of the facts.
I did my 30 yrs at 5 GM plants and think I have a pretty good understanding of how things work concerning GM/UAW.

It doesn't surprise me that you think that way after all those years.

Out here in reality, bad treatment and bad pay results in employees leaving the company. Due to the economy, the rest of us have to take the BS and keep working if we want to keep our jobs. Out here, it's a free market. In you GM plant, it's socialism, so I don't share any sympathy.

The bashers strike me as McDonalds bottom level "managers". Just enough education to express themself, but with zero knowledge of what they speak of.
Ted

Is attacking really going to change those "basher's" minds? They have a different opinion from you, too....and the UAW has a long history of not considering any other issues but their own.

Step off the high horse and try to view the situation from the outside, and you'd probably share our opinions.

 

[member12]

After all the crap the UAW pulled, I gravitate to the opinion that they are responsible for this mess.

I do have some questions: Why wasn't this contract worked out if these workers are contributing to a very popular product in these slow times? I am sure GM knows the UAW's usual reaction to everything and the since of entitlement....there should have been no surprise in this reaction.

That being said, it's BS that the UAW would threaten a strike right now when the organization they are associated with is hurting badly and is depending on this product. Where's the team effort? Oh wait...the UAW is on their own team.