GM Inside News Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
61 - 78 of 78 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,257 Posts
Which gasoline and diesel-powered vehicles in the U.S. market cost "way more" than their BEV counterparts comparably equipped?
Are we really going to pick nits on this? Of course there are ICE cars that cost more than, say, a Nissan Leaf or Chevrolet Bolt. I don't see why this is even a question. Some BEV's are expensive, some ICE cars are expensive. Some BEV's are inexpensive, some ICE cars are inexpensive.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,257 Posts
The Tax Credit went to the Manufactures, not the Consumer. Look at the Price Reduuction on the Bolt for an example. Now that the Credit is Gone, GM reduced it's price by nearly the Tax Credit.

Why was the Volt nearly 10K more than a Malibu? Because of the $7500 Credit made it relatively Priced.
???????
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,257 Posts
:unsure: ???????? :whistle: .
I don't know where InCogKneeToe got that info, but I don't think it's true. The Bolt price was cut to try and get them all sold to make up for the recall and since the new Ultium models are coming they are old tech, NOT because GM couldn't get the full $7,500 on them anymore. GM never received the $7,500....the buyer did. The Volt was $10K more (and it was actually more than that) than the Malibu to offset the investment cost, not because GM got a credit....and since the credit is based on battery size (sort of), the Volt was never able to have the full $7,500 tax credit, it could only get $3,750.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,519 Posts
The Volt WAS able to use the entire $7500 tax credit. My 2014 lease "shared" the entire $7500. On my daughter's 2017, the lease company shared roughly $6000 of the tax credit up front.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,257 Posts
The Volt WAS able to use the entire $7500 tax credit. My 2014 lease "shared" the entire $7500. On my daughter's 2017, the lease company shared roughly $6000 of the tax credit up front.
Oh, my dealer said that since it only had a 17kwh battery it wasn't allowed the full $7,500.....then he realized I was buying a used one and they can't get ANY tax credit. Perhaps he was wrong, but then again, I would have bought it regardless. It also depended on WHEN you bought it. From 2010 to 2019 a new one could get it $7,500, after 2019 it was $3,750. I don't care if a car has the tax credit or not, that's not a determining factor for me on whether or not I buy one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,003 Posts
But the amount isn't the same every year, aren't you only taxed on capital gains for inherited-didn't-work-for-it-just-got-it-cuz-Nana-died-silver-spoon-wealth?

Another reason to support "Flat/No Return/No Refund" Taxes.
If Nana paid taxes on her assets & choses to give it to someone else, why should the assets be taxes again?

Don’t forget - welfare benefits are the only income in the USA that is not taxed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,217 Posts
Wow,
I don't know where InCogKneeToe got that info, but I don't think it's true. The Bolt price was cut to try and get them all sold to make up for the recall and since the new Ultium models are coming they are old tech, NOT because GM couldn't get the full $7,500 on them anymore. GM never received the $7,500....the buyer did. The Volt was $10K more (and it was actually more than that) than the Malibu to offset the investment cost, not because GM got a credit....and since the credit is based on battery size (sort of), the Volt was never able to have the full $7,500 tax credit, it could only get $3,750.
Look at it this way, a 2019 Bolt had a Starting Price of $36620 Premier $41020.00 This is a Compact Car remember. 2019 Spark $13220-16020, A friggen Encore started at $23020.

One had a $15000 Battery Pack and a $2000 Electric Motor, the others had a $8000 Motor, $4000 Transmission, but the rest is similar in price. That is like $5000 more to Produce, not $10-15000 more. The Tax Credit Money, was what equalled the Price Points.

The proof is when the Tax Credit went, so did the Bolts Inflated MSRP.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,556 Posts
If Nana paid taxes on her assets & choses to give it to someone else, why should the assets be taxes again?

Don’t forget - welfare benefits are the only income in the USA that is not taxed.
Nonsense. The trope that the income of the poor is not taxed has been pushed by the American Right Wing since forever. This is because they only count Federal taxes as taxes. They ignore state and local taxes. Generally, the poor live hand to mouth. Every penny that the poor receive in income is usually spent on something. Generally, rent is not taxed, but state and local governments tax virtually everything else. I once lived in a state in which the counties levy an ad valorem tax on the value of your real property. If you own a car, then your car is taxed whether or not you have an income.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,051 Posts
Oh, my dealer said that since it only had a 17kwh battery it wasn't allowed the full $7,500.....then he realized I was buying a used one and they can't get ANY tax credit. Perhaps he was wrong, but then again, I would have bought it regardless. It also depended on WHEN you bought it. From 2010 to 2019 a new one could get it $7,500, after 2019 it was $3,750. I don't care if a car has the tax credit or not, that's not a determining factor for me on whether or not I buy one.
The tax credit was $7500 on the first 200,000 cars per manufacture. Based on a 16.5kw battery, which by chance was exactly what the Volt had, if the battery was smaller you got less. After the first 200k cars, the credit reduced by half, every 6 months, until it reach 0. That is probably why, the $3750 was quoted to you in 2019, that would have been about when they went over the 200k mark.
That credit was exactly what pushed me over to purchase my 13 Volt. Love it and still have it. At 145k miles I’m still on my original front brakes. Picked up a used 18 Volt with 18k miles on it last September. So I have 2. Now I use no gas in all my local driving. Only when I take trips to Jersey, Philly or OBX.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,003 Posts
Nonsense. The trope that the income of the poor is not taxed has been pushed by the American Right Wing since forever. This is because they only count Federal taxes as taxes. They ignore state and local taxes. Generally, the poor live hand to mouth. Every penny that the poor receive in income is usually spent on something. Generally, rent is not taxed, but state and local governments tax virtually everything else. I once lived in a state in which the counties levy an ad valorem tax on the value of your real property. If you own a car, then your car is taxed whether or not you have an income.


People living on various welfare benefits (such as rent subsidy, food subsidy, utility subsidy, cell phone subsidy, internet subsidy, free medical, free lunch programs, - the list is almost endless), pay no federal income tax, no state income tax, no local city income tax, no federal Social Security tax, no federal Medicare tax, and often no property taxes.

I recognize that they pay taxes on cigarettes and alcohol products, and sales taxes on items they buy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,257 Posts
People living on various welfare benefits (such as rent subsidy, food subsidy, utility subsidy, cell phone subsidy, internet subsidy, free medical, free lunch programs, - the list is almost endless), pay no federal income tax, no state income tax, no local city income tax, no federal Social Security tax, no federal Medicare tax, and often no property taxes.

I recognize that they pay taxes on cigarettes and alcohol products, and sales taxes on items they buy.
But corporate welfare is necessary? So tired of the "welfare" trope while the rich have so many loopholes. Ever been on food stamps? No? Lucky you. I did it for 6 months after the divorce because half the income left, I had custody of the kids and she paid nothing in child support. Guess I'm part of the problem? Reagan put this image in people's heads that was never a reality about welfare. Reagan was an idiot.
 

·
Registered
2015 Cadillac XTS Platinum, 2014 Cadillac Saks 5th Ave ELR, 1989 Merkur XR4Ti, 1989 Merkur Scorpio
Joined
·
12,054 Posts
Why was the Volt nearly 10K more than a Malibu? Because of the $7500 Credit made it relatively Priced.
Pretty sure GM didn't make money on the Volt.
The reason the ELR had a $75K MSRP was Coke Can Dan wanted to make a profit on it.

ELRs are nice, but they're not $30K more nice than a loaded Volt.
Most people don't realize that although the ELR is the Volt's sister, it's also the XTS's kissing cousin.
There's a lot of XTS in a ELR, which I never knew until I had spent extended time in both.

Oh, my dealer said that since it only had a 17kwh battery it wasn't allowed the full $7,500.....then he realized I was buying a used one and they can't get ANY tax credit.
2nd part is correct.
1st part, he either didn't know what he was taking about or lied to your face.
The current credit was written specifically for the first Volts with the 16.0 kwh battery.
The formula, $2500 for 5kwh + $417 + $417 for every kwh over 5 = $7504.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,296 Posts
But corporate welfare is necessary? So tired of the "welfare" trope while the rich have so many loopholes. Ever been on food stamps? No? Lucky you. I did it for 6 months after the divorce because half the income left, I had custody of the kids and she paid nothing in child support. Guess I'm part of the problem? Reagan put this image in people's heads that was never a reality about welfare. Reagan was an idiot.
Neither is "necessary". But both can be good or bad. They probably shouldn't both be lumped together under the welfare banner.

Corporate welfare is intended (yes it gets abused) to serve the greater good of society, by helping a company survive or expand, thus expanding the economy, providing more jobs, etc. It is NOT intended to be charity.

Individual welfare (which also gets abused) doesn't serve society's greater good, but serves one case or individual. Not that that's a "worthless" thing to do, we do strive to uplift the temporarily downtrodden. It is charity.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,257 Posts
Neither is "necessary". But both can be good or bad. They probably shouldn't both be lumped together under the welfare banner.

Corporate welfare is intended (yes it gets abused) to serve the greater good of society, by helping a company survive or expand, thus expanding the economy, providing more jobs, etc. It is NOT intended to be charity.

Individual welfare (which also gets abused) doesn't serve society's greater good, but serves one case or individual. Not that that's a "worthless" thing to do, we do strive to uplift the temporarily downtrodden. It is charity.
But that makes sense!
 
61 - 78 of 78 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top