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Personally, I don't like the union provision in the tax credit. There's simply no logical basis to justify that. US manufacturing? I'm all for it. US-based companies (which is not in the proposed law but I wish it were)? All for it. But not union-built.

That said, I see BlackGTP's point. The argument quoted above assumes there's a level playing field to begin with. That's not the case. Korea is subsidizing Hyundai and Germany is subsidizing VW and so on (through government-funded healthcare etc., not to mention more overt ways in some cases), which means GM, Ford et.al. are already at a disadvantage. Still, I would have preferred if that was addressed through other means than by relying on unions as the determining factor.
The logic is I bribe you, you bribe me, we edge out other competitors who are smart enough to avoid unions. From my reading of history, Honda came THIS close to letting the union in when they first started manufacturing in the USA. It was one guy who resisted it and cleared the way. One man.
 
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It's indeed a political play; it goes like this:
  1. UAW takes in dues from its members
  2. UAW distributes part of those funds to left wing extremist Democrats for their congressional election campaigns
  3. Left wing extremist Democrats get elected
  4. Left wing extremist Democrats pay back their UAW cronies by proposing legislation that perpetuates UAW's existence
  5. Uncontrolled centralized government power grows further
  6. Repeat Steps 1 - 5
Too many steps...you make them much smarter than they are.

Here's what it actually is:

1. Make democrats look good to voters because they seem to support unions and anything associated with manufacturing.

2. Make republicans look like Japanese auto company supporters which is a switch from history.

Don't follow the money with politicians today...just follow the votes.

Your steps above have no bearing in politicians thinking process...and this piece of legislation has no value other than giving democrats an opportunity to make republicans look dumb.

Honestly there's nothing here other than hot air...
 

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I'd say that is the true point where we differ. I don't see this as supporting the unions at all, I see it as the unions being used in name only in order to hand a benefit to Ford and GM. Wouldn't surprise me to hear that the idea of this came from GM or Ford (or both) right from the top.
We'll agree to disagree, that's fine by me. 😃

The main reasons for my assertion that the proposed $4,500 tax credit for UAW built EV directly supports UAW - as opposed to directly supporting Ford and GM, or American automakers generally - are as follows:
  • As mentioned earlier, Stellantis which is a European company, technically qualifies while certain American EV manufacturers do not;
  • EV assembled by Ford and GM at their facilities in Canada and Mexico (e.g., Mustang Mach-E) do not qualify;
  • GM and Ford have been mum about this topic. UAW President Ray Curry, on the the other hand, didn't hesitate to open his big, lyin' yapper;
  • Prioritizing among auto workers based on union membership fits the definition of "unlevel playing field" perfectly.
 

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The logic is I bribe you, you bribe me, we edge out other competitors who are smart enough to avoid unions. From my reading of history, Honda came THIS close to letting the union in when they first started manufacturing in the USA. It was one guy who resisted it and cleared the way. One man.
Sad to say, the part in bold just about sums up our entire political system today on both sides of the aisle.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 · (Edited)
The UAW isn't going away from GM/Ford anytime soon and the foreign makes aren't letting them into their plants either. While I don't like them, nothing but GM/Ford going out of business will get rid of them. At the same time the Japanese have a very unfair playing field, I think it is virtually impossible for GM/Ford to come out with something vastly superior to the Japanese without it being more expensive than the Japanese makes.

I like this as it is a subsidy for American makes without the government coming out and saying that. Honda/Toyota and the rest are welcome to bring in the unions and get the credit. Let's see how much this credit is worth to them.


Where do Toyota/Honda/Nissan send their US profits plus $4,500 US taxpayers subsidy (if they were to get it)?

Tokyo, Japan

Where do Ford & GM send their US markets profits plus $4,500 US taxpayers subsidy?

It stays in the USA.
 
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The UAW has a documented history of corruption, which bordered on organized crime - with the numerous felony convictions of former UAW presidents and other members. The federal investigation was conducted under the federal RICO statutes.

It is unconscionable for the US government to use tax money to subsidize the UAW or any other criminal organization.
 

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I'd like to see that too, but if GM and Ford want to become leaders in the U.S. electric vehicle market, they should EARN that status by offering products and services superior to the competition. Not by expanding the roster of government handouts they receive.

Removing the parasite known as UAW from their operations - by any means necessary - would be an appropriate starting point for both companies.
Are you saying let the free market decide? What a concept !!
 

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It's indeed a political play; it goes like this:
  1. UAW takes in dues from its members
  2. UAW distributes part of those funds to left wing extremist Democrats for their congressional election campaigns
  3. Left wing extremist Democrats get elected
  4. Left wing extremist Democrats pay back their UAW cronies by proposing legislation that perpetuates UAW's existence
  5. Uncontrolled centralized government power grows further
  6. Left wing extremist Democrats ALL buy foreign cars as usual
  7. Repeat Steps 1 - 6
Fixed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 · (Edited)
This.

Not to men, granny Yellen wants access to your bank account.. can you say crypto currencies? These people just want to collapse the dollar
You don't want read up on what happened in the Cyprus banking crisis when German EU banks bailed them out, part of the deal was a one off raid tax grab on Cypriot bank accounts as the Cypriot government never had the money, so they had to agree to the T & C.

The terms of the Cypriot bailout (and bail-in) are as simple as they were startling. Germany will cough up about $13 billion bailout money, and, in exchange, Cyprus will levy a "one-time" tax on bank deposits to raise an additional $7.5 billion. To Cypriots with a small population of 1 million that was a lot of money, a lot champaign socialists Russian leftie millionaires with Cypriot banks accounts got hit the hardest that had one of there many holiday homes in Cyprus..
 

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You don't want read up on what happened in the Cyprus banking crisis when German EU banks bailed them out, part of the deal was a one off raid tax grab on Cypriot bank accounts as the Cypriot government never had the money, so they had to agree to the T & C.

The terms of the Cypriot bailout (and bail-in) are as simple as they were startling. Germany will cough up about $13 billion bailout money, and, in exchange, Cyprus will levy a "one-time" tax on bank deposits to raise an additional $7.5 billion. To Cypriots with a small population of 1 million that was a lot of money, a lot champaign socialists Russian leftie millionaires with Cypriot banks accounts got hit the hardest that had one of there many holiday homes in Cyprus..
So you are saying Germans basically used Cyprus to steal Russian money?
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
Majority of Cypriots are low paid can't remember there was a lower threshold for savings was lets say it was $7,000 or Euros that you escaped losing any of your savings which covered most Cypriots, a lot Brits retire out the as well for a place in sun also got caught they lost a bit not as much as the millionaire Russians.
 

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It's indeed a political play; it goes like this:
  1. UAW takes in dues from its members
  2. UAW distributes part of those funds to left wing extremist Democrats for their congressional election campaigns
  3. Left wing extremist Democrats get elected
  4. Left wing extremist Democrats pay back their UAW cronies by proposing legislation that perpetuates UAW's existence
  5. Uncontrolled centralized government power grows further
  6. Repeat Steps 1 - 5
Hasn’t helped, union membership continues to fall
 

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Because there's one political party in the Excited States that wants to kill unions so that big business can go back to treating workers unfairly and pay them a non-living wage so they can increase their profits to pay their executives and share holders more money. Who would you rather have get the dough, over paid fat executives and big companies or the actual workers who work hard to put out the products?
How misguided you are. The ones you say that are out there "to kill the unions" actually do more good than those unions who give more lip service than actual results, just like the certain party their leadership always flocks to vs. their core membership who feel otherwise.
 
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