[Ming]

Trucks, Texas, and Toyota
Motley Fool
Monday April 19, 1:30 pm ET
By Rich Smith

In 1985, my father decided to replace our baby blue, 1969 General Motors pickup ("Babe"). We wanted something a little less rusty, something with a real muffler on it rather than the sawed-off coffee can that Babe sported. A decade-long fan of Datsun -- now Nissan -- cars, Dad was looking at Nissan and Toyota pickups. But I dissuaded him: "Dad, buying a Japanese truck is like buying an Italian tractor -- it just isn't right. Only Americans can make real trucks."

Jingoistic argument or no, I ultimately won out and we got ourselves a Ford Ranger.

Fast-forward two decades and that argument no longer holds water. Half the Japanese car companies are partly owned by U.S. and European automakers, and it's anyone's guess how much of any given "American" truck was actually produced in the U.S. of A. Drive around the nation's capital, for example, and you can see the results of the globalization of the auto industry. It seems half the trucks on the road are sporty little Toyota Tacomas.

According to yesterday's Washington Post, the domestic/import truck battle, which is already fast being lost to Japan by GM, Ford and DaimlerChrysler's Dodge on the East Coast, is now heating up down in the heart of American truck country. In Texas, where barely 3.5% of registered trucks are foreign brands, that percentage is predicted to rise by half in 2004. Toyota's market share is only going to increase when it completes construction of its new San Antonio factory in 2006, where it plans to produce 150,000 Tundra pickups annually.

Texans already buy about 15% of all full-size pickups in the U.S. Given a choice between buying a Chevy truck from Detroit and a Toyota truck from San Antonio, Texan buyers are going to be hard-pressed to decide where their loyalties lie.

Full Article Here

 

[IMPALAon20s]

Originally posted by Ming@Apr 19 2004, 01:46 PM
Trucks, Texas, and Toyota
Motley Fool
Monday April 19, 1:30 pm ET
By Rich Smith

According to yesterday's Washington Post, the domestic/import truck battle, which is already fast being lost to Japan by GM, Ford and DaimlerChrysler's Dodge on the East Coast, is now heating up down in the heart of American truck country. In Texas, where barely 3.5% of registered trucks are foreign brands, that percentage is predicted to rise by half in 2004. Toyota's market share is only going to increase when it completes construction of its new San Antonio factory in 2006, where it plans to produce 150,000 Tundra pickups annually.

Texans already buy about 15% of all full-size pickups in the U.S. Given a choice between buying a Chevy truck from Detroit and a Toyota truck from San Antonio, Texan buyers are going to be hard-pressed to decide where their loyalties lie.

mr smith who wrote the article drives an s-10 and is not a "car guy" as would be required of automotive journalists. he has no idea what the FULLSIZE market is about in texas. i do, i've lived it and breathed it since i was 5 years old when i first got to steer a ford f series in the driveway. the texas fullsize truck owner is unlike that of the east coast that he mentions. they could give a fk about DOHC in fact thats probably a negative thing being that its probably more expensive to fix. they want their trucks ruggid, american and able to roll over civics. in texas the fullsize truck had mutiple uses, work, family, play.. and ford/dodge/chevy/gmc trucks hold a place of honor here in texas that cant be taken away easily with pretty chrome and and carlike interior that sissy boys use for antiquing and to get attention at starbucks.

 

[Ming]

Ever notice how Nissan and Toyota are always "on the verge" of stealing the truck market away from the Big 3? If you look you can find dire predictions from back to 1995.

Until Toyota moves its headquarters to Texas (yeah, like that will happen), you aren't going to see all Texans eagerly buying Toyotas. San Antonio will have its share of factory workers and community beneficiaries driving them with big grins, but don't expect Toyota fandom to radiate outward naturally.

The use of "jingoistic" in this article is also a telltale sign of someone who sees patriotism as a bad thing. I know a few people who yearn to convert me to Import brands --- they think only stubbord ******** and Union workers drive domestics, and I break the rules for them. The fact that the guy drives the outdated S-10 platform and is surrounded by "sporty Tacomas" probably leads to further bias.

"Must...join...the...herd!"

 

[IMPALAon20s]

btw- should have seen the backlash that happen when the houston rockets brand new stadium was named the "toyota center", houstonians were pissed. all the things i heard were basicly the same "why toyota?".. "chevy center would have been better". wonder if yao ming being asian had something to do with toyotas discission to buy the naming rights?

also, in regional advertising here in texas chevys slogan is "chevy, god and texas!"

 

[Nocturn_Bird]

LOL Im so glad I moved out of Houston, One thing I CANT STAND about this state is how there is some sick sence of Texan pride, Lord knows we have enough Texas/Lone star/Lone State edition trucks to pick from already. Not to mention that EVERY truck add has to protray texas as some rural ruff cowboy state where everyone uses the trucks to haul bales of hay and pull boats and crap that 90% of texas trucks don't ever do, frankly if I here Ford and texas go hand in hand, or Chevy driving texas, or Bigger in texas better in a dodge, I think I will throw my stereo through my Television.

 

[39255]

Originally posted by Ming@Apr 19 2004, 08:03 AM
The fact that the guy drives the outdated S-10 platform and is surrounded by "sporty Tacomas" probably leads to further bias.

"Must...join...the...herd!"

Also the other out dated truck The Ford Ranger was also mentioned. BTW also due soon for a complete refreshment sooner than later.

I just cant see the big 3 giving up on trucks to toyota like they already did with cars.

Imports turn to Market gain in trucks as Domestics turn to market Gain in cars. What will be the result? Cant wait to find out..

 

[Ming]

Originally posted by IMPALAon20s@Apr 19 2004, 03:13 PM
wonder if yao ming being asian had something to do with toyotas discission to buy the naming rights?

It did. The "Toy Box" was bought by Toyota because they knew it would be a good marketing tool for games shown even in China. Yep - the Chinese watch Yao Ming play on TV, too. The other thing they didn't tell the Houston taxpayer who helped fund it was that the Rockets picked up Toyota as their sponsor precisely because it is an "internationally recognized brand".

And a trip to Houston's Chinatown will tell you that 75% of the cars there are Toyohonda, so that might have had something to do with it, too.

I think Yao bought his mother a Lexus as well.

This also plays in to Toyota's desire to have a presence in every major city in Texas. San Antonio, and Houston first.

 

[jro4566]

Originally posted by IMPALAon20s@Apr 19 2004, 02:13 PM
also, in regional advertising here in texas chevys slogan is "chevy, god and texas!"

In Dallas, it's "Chevy: Driving Texas".

 

[IMPALAon20s]

Originally posted by RCtennis3811+Apr 19 2004, 06:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (RCtennis3811 @ Apr 19 2004, 06:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-IMPALAon20s@Apr 19 2004, 02:13 PM
also, in regional advertising here in texas chevys slogan is "chevy, god and texas!"

In Dallas, it's "Chevy: Driving Texas". [/b][/quote]
well yeah, thats the slogan, but "chevy ,god and texas" are the lyrics in the theme music. my mistake. or am i hearing it wrong?

 

[lio45]

"Given a choice between buying a Chevy truck from Detroit and a Toyota truck from San Antonio, Texan buyers are going to be hard-pressed to decide where their loyalties lie."

Easy. Let them buy Arlington-built Chevies and everyone'll be happy.

 

[boblutzfan]

Being a Texan and having lived in San Antonio for 10 years I can say with certainty that Toyota isn't going to steal the market any time soon for the following reasons:

1) We already make trucks (SUV's) here in Texas as was already noted
2) No self respecting UT or A&M guy would drive a Toyota or Nissan wanabe truck
3) There is something rugged about the Big Three that Toyota and Nissan just haven't found yet. When was the last time anyone saw a Ranch Hand Bumper on a Tacoma or Titan. (if you don't know what a Ranch Hand Bumper is then you don't know the Texas truck market)
4) Contrary to what Nocturn_Bird said, most people here in Texas are proud of our Texas spirit. If he didn't like it, then I am glad he moved. National and state pride run hand in hand down here.

Toyota will never be The Truck of Texas, or San Antonio... no matter how many "Toyota Town" adds they run on the radio and TV.

 

[IMPALAon20s]

Originally posted by boblutzfan@Apr 20 2004, 02:50 PM
Toyota will never be The Truck of Texas, or San Antonio...

or houston either!! ::shoots gun in air::

 

[SUPERBADD75]

well yeah, thats the slogan, but "chevy ,god and texas" are the lyrics in the theme music. my mistake. or am i hearing it wrong?

i'm pretty sure you're hearing it wrong, but i have a few other things to address here.

mr smith who wrote the article drives an s-10 and is not a "car guy" as would be required of automotive journalists. he has no idea what the FULLSIZE market is about in texas. i do, i've lived it and breathed it since i was 5 years old when i first got to steer a ford f series in the driveway. the texas fullsize truck owner is unlike that of the east coast that he mentions. they could give a fk about DOHC in fact thats probably a negative thing being that its probably more expensive to fix. they want their trucks ruggid, american and able to roll over civics. in texas the fullsize truck had mutiple uses, work, family, play.. and ford/dodge/chevy/gmc trucks hold a place of honor here in texas that cant be taken away easily with pretty chrome and and carlike interior that sissy boys use for antiquing and to get attention at starbucks.

let me just say this to you, sir. you are the type of person that makes all Texans look like ridiculous hicks! people from across the country already think that Texans are all a bunch of freaking goat ranchers or something, and that we all wear 10 gallon hats and stupid cowboy boots. i myself have owned a few trucks, and yeah, 3 out of 4 of them were domestics. the fact is a truck is a truck. a frame, a body, and an engine. nothing special, they just have to work hard. consider this.... Toyota and Nissan, who is also selling a full size, have sat back and watched what the big 3 have done for years, checking out their game, and observing the very profitable market of full size trucks from afar. Toyota had even tried once before, with the failed T-100. the difference is they have a gameplan now. they have studied American trucks, and they know what the U.S. market wants. Nissan's new Titan looks like a real domestic fighter, and the Tundra is a very nice truck as well. not everyone needs a 1-ton dually pickup with 4WD. some people need something to tow that weekend toy, or haul mulch and plants around with, and these trucks will do very well for that. however, they will also do somewhat heavy duty work as well. the Nissan, more than the Tundra, but they are both well designed, well built trucks, and they deserve respect. they will certaily get consideration by some of the not-so-country people who need pickups. they're good vehicles. don't be so closed minded and realize that the foreign companies who brought us better cars are also very capable of bringing us better trucks, too. they've done their homework...

 

[IMPALAon20s]

Originally posted by SUPERBADD75@Apr 20 2004, 04:22 PM
let me just say this to you, sir. you are the type of person that makes all Texans look like ridiculous hicks! people from across the country already think that Texans are all a bunch of freaking goat ranchers or something, and that we all wear 10 gallon hats and stupid cowboy boots....

1st, about your stereotypical comments, I MYSELF am far from a hick.. if the rest of the country wants to believe the media/hollywood perception of what a texan is like, i'll leave that to their simple minded concepts. and if it makes you feel good to think that you belittled me, you need to try a little harder partner and really put some effort into it...

now back to the trucks..

... some people need something to tow that weekend toy, or haul mulch and plants around with, and these trucks will do very well for that. however, they will also do somewhat heavy duty work as well. the Nissan, more than the Tundra, but they are both well designed, well built trucks, and they deserve respect. they will certaily get consideration by some of the not-so-country people who need pickups. they're good vehicles. don't be so closed minded and realize that the foreign companies who brought us better cars are also very capable of bringing us better trucks, too. they've done their homework...

i never said, they were poorly built, or low quality, so dont imply things i didnt say. my points were..

1. ford/dodge/chevy/gmc have a long history and a faithfull following that will be difficult to steal market from.

2. lack of engine choices, mutiple wheel bases/cab configerations, and fleet vehicles leaves the foreign competitors with a major disadvantage.

3.styling of the foreign competitors isn't to the tastes of MOST texans, as can be proven with what most think of as a dull styled f150 that still is leading sales with its rugged personality. and as you said about the competition,"they will certainly get consideration by SOME", but that small market share isn't going to put the big 3 againts the ropes by any means. maybe someday, but that is in the distant future and i think the big 3 have learned their lesson with cars about not keeping up with market demands.

 

[SUPERBADD75]

okay, impala, i wasn't trying to belittle you, because it's not necessary. i just think you make too much of an emphasis on Texans and their trucks this, and Texans grew up with trucks... blah blah blah.

the fact is that in today's truck market, for one, there are lots of new people buying trucks for the first time, and regardless of what you or anyone else grew up with as far as pickups go, the market is brand new, and wide open to them.

another fact is that people may tend to be brand loyal, and that has serious potential to hurt the big 3, (or 2 now, i guess. i don't know.... is Chrysler still considered one of the players? probably not... big 2) as there are a lot of Camry owners out there, many potentially needing trucks. same with Maxima, or Altima owners. there is finally a real choice in Japanese full size trucks. like i said in the last post, the Japanese make really good cars, U.S. automakers better look out for their trucks, too. i never said they would take down the domestics, but i bet they'll take a nice piece of the market away.

okay, now let's tackle some issues here.....

1. ford/dodge/chevy/gmc have a long history and a faithfull following that will be difficult to steal market from.

the faithful following is fine, but as i said before, it's not all about faithful repeat customers. some of it is about bringing in the new customers, and proving that your product is well built, tough, reliable, and most importantly to many, competitively priced. the foreigners have done very well in these categories.

2. lack of engine choices, mutiple wheel bases/cab configerations, and fleet vehicles leaves the foreign competitors with a major disadvantage.

with the Tundra there are 2 engine choices; a V6 and a V8. this will suit most people looking for a truck. you don't need a myriad of choices in engines, it's not brain surgery. do you just want a nice truck to pick up landscaping supplies? a V6 will do plenty well. need to tow a boat or some jet skis... the V8 is the best choice. the Titan, on the other hand, just offers one engine, but it's a good one. a 305 horse, 379 lb. ft. V8. that should handle most tasks quite handily.... especially when it'll tow 9,500 lbs.

as far as cab configurations go, the Japanese trucks offer extended cab, and crew cab configurations. these are the most popular, and why offer a regular cab truck when it's not popular?

3.styling of the foreign competitors isn't to the tastes of MOST texans, as can be proven with what most think of as a dull styled f150 that still is leading sales with its rugged personality. and as you said about the competition,"they will certainly get consideration by SOME", but that small market share isn't going to put the big 3 againts the ropes by any means. maybe someday, but that is in the distant future and i think the big 3 have learned their lesson with cars about not keeping up with market demands.

well, in that statement, you kind of made a point, and then countered it. it seems like you said that the styling is bad and will keep sales down, but the F-150's bad styling doesn't hold its sales back. huh? correct me if i'm wrong, but that's how it reads... i will, however, give my 2 cents on that, too. the Tundra, to me looks a lot like the last gen F-150, which was the best selling truck in the world. hmm... not to the tastes of most Texans? most Texans, including myself, liked the last F-150.

the Titan, although somewhat controversial, is a nice looking truck, and the interior is nicely styled as well, and somewhat carlike. people today buying trucks aren't like the farmers and laborers of the old days, they want something they can use for working, and something they can be comfortable driving everyday, all in the same single vehicle. look at the new F-150, and then look at the competition. it's moving toward a more carlike interior, and the Titan has a few similarities to the new F-150 inside. styling is, of course, a subjective thing, and everyone's taste is different. i don't think that any one person can say that styling is going to turn people away if they like the rest of the truck. people hated the current 7 Series Bimmer when it first hit, but it's selling pretty well.

i think overall that the Japanese brands are moving toward the current (and future) truck market, and i'm not saying that the Tundra or Titan are going to knock the domestics down, but i think they'd better keep their eyes open, because they're up against the toughest competition they've ever had... the Japanese trucks are actually pretty good.

 

[IMPALAon20s]

Originally posted by SUPERBADD75@Apr 21 2004, 07:47 AM
well, in that statement, you kind of made a point, and then countered it. it seems like you said that the styling is bad and will keep sales down, but the F-150's bad styling doesn't hold its sales back. huh? correct me if i'm wrong, but that's how it reads... i will, however, give my 2 cents on that, too. the Tundra, to me looks a lot like the last gen F-150, which was the best selling truck in the world. hmm... not to the tastes of most Texans? most Texans, including myself, liked the last F-150.

the Titan, although somewhat controversial, is a nice looking truck, and the interior is nicely styled as well, and somewhat carlike. people today buying trucks aren't like the farmers and laborers of the old days, they want something they can use for working, and something they can be comfortable driving everyday, all in the same single vehicle. look at the new F-150, and then look at the competition. it's moving toward a more carlike interior, and the Titan has a few similarities to the new F-150 inside. styling is, of course, a subjective thing, and everyone's taste is different. i don't think that any one person can say that styling is going to turn people away if they like the rest of the truck. people hated the current 7 Series Bimmer when it first hit, but it's selling pretty well.

im going to let you jabber on with your insults, it just shows how petty you are.


as for styling, i said the titan styling is bad IMO, but didnt say ugly. whats bad about it is, its overly refined and to many thats a negative thing, along with its nice carlike interior. whats so desired about the f150, is its SIMPLE styling with some excursion styling ques (the shape of door window opening), and that quiet steel feature seems to be a hit. and all that without pointless chrome and dramatic lines.

as for engines and cab configurations. lots of people still buy single cabs, people on a budget, as well as fleets/commercial vehicles... for example: tow trucks, delivery trucks, are almost always in single cabs, they are hauling things, not people.

back to engines, i said it before, titan needs a v6 (in single cab) to be able to offer something around 18k-20k. they also need diesel for industrial use.

 

[SUPERBADD75]

im going to let you jabber on with your insults, it just shows how petty you are.

where did i insult you, in either of my posts? i swear, you really need to be less sensitive. i'm not being ugly here.....

as for engines and cab configurations. lots of people still buy single cabs, people on a budget, as well as fleets/commercial vehicles... for example: tow trucks, delivery trucks, are almost always in single cabs, they are hauling things, not people.

back to engines, i said it before, titan needs a v6 (in single cab) to be able to offer something around 18k-20k. they also need diesel for industrial use.

these trucks are obviously not trying to tie up the market, they want the high end of it. that is why they offer only 2 cabs and limited engine choices. besides, some people like simplicity. for people on a true budget, both companies sell very nice, very capable midsize trucks, and Nissan's Frontier is actually about to grow to the size of a Dakota. as far as commercial uses, once again, they don't want the whole market, just a nice little slice of it.

as far as a diesel goes, what full size, half ton pickup has a diesel? i know not DCX or Ford.... does GM? honestly,i don't know, and i'm not trying to offend you, but i don't think they do either. the Titan and Tundra are both half ton trucks, and they don't need a diesel to compete in that marketplace.

 

[IMPALAon20s]

Originally posted by SUPERBADD75@Apr 21 2004, 11:25 AM
as far as a diesel goes, what full size, half ton pickup has a diesel? i know not DCX or Ford.... does GM? honestly,i don't know, and i'm not trying to offend you, but i don't think they do either. the Titan and Tundra are both half ton trucks, and they don't need a diesel to compete in that marketplace.

ford/dodge/gmc all have heady duty or super duty versions of their trucks with 4x4 and diesel engines. maybe its a different segment of the market, but its still means they offer something nissan/toyota dont.

 

[SUPERBADD75]

ford/dodge/gmc all have heady duty or super duty versions of their trucks with 4x4 and diesel engines. maybe its a different segment of the market, but its still means they offer something nissan/toyota dont.

that is why i specified the half-ton models. the Toyota and Nissan are not going after the HD trucks, they are going for the higher sales of the light duty. you are right, the heavy duty crowd will never consider the Japanese brands. who knows, though, if the current ones do well, they just may build HDs as well.

by the way, i'm not saying that i am going to buy a Japanese truck.... my next truck will be a domestic for sure, but don't pass the Japanese ones off as a minor threat. they may prove to be tough competition.

 

[SmallBlock]

Titan sales are tanking. Only about 60% of what they thought (and that was supposed to be conservative. Too Bad Nissan.

Armada sales are in the dumper too. I guess it's because those hicks in Texas don't know what's good for them. I mean, EVERYONE knows the Japanese are the best in the world at everything automotive right. It CAN'T be the fuglyness of the trucks. It can't be the lack of options or wheelbases.

Nope its gotta be the stupid Americans. Even the truck poseurs aren't buying them.

Ha Ha Nissan.