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Going to be some fights! You know someone is going to sneak out there at 1:00 AM, unplug someone's car and plug it into their own, then put it back at 5:00 AM.
Yes, that is a surefire recipe for chaos and bad behavior. Central Planners don't worry much about peasants, if peasants were worthwhile they wouldn't be peasants.
 
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Why did they buy a plug-in?
I'd guess because they're Green Jeans Advanced Thinkers of the inner city variety. Perhaps a little, excuse me a lil, virtue signaling? Just a guess.
 

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Discussion Starter · #64 ·
Thanks. It happened six years ago in my 40’s and I’ve mostly recovered but still have some cognitive issues.



Yes, but if the phase out of ICE begins as many manufacturers say they are planning for, 10 or 15 years isn’t much time to re-imagine the power grid. Recharge times won’t be the issue but power grid capacity will be imo. And if the power hungry full size trucks become a major player, then that’s even more drain on the grid. Imagine millions of F150 and Silverado’s charging at any given time, not to mention Brightdrop-type delivery vehicles. That COULD be reality in 5-10 years. This is why I see ICE staying relevant in new vehicles for some time. Unless hydrogen makes huge strides forward
Wow - in your 40's - that's awful. If I'm not getting into your business, is it some kind of heredity issue that you had one so young? No need to answer if you don't wish to.
 

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Now they have a loyal group of Prius customers wondering why they are driving around in their crappy Prius, still burning gas, when all of these wonderful BEV's are on the road. Many will be brand loyal and will stick with Toyota.
A high proportion of regular Prius owners that switched to another model for their most recent vehicle purchase chose a Prius Prime or another Toyota hybrid. In June 2021, Prius Prime sales in the U.S. exceeded that of the regular Prius.

Toyota hybrid models whose sales for the first half of 2021 exceeded that of the regular Prius are:
  • Camry Hybrid
  • Sienna
  • Highlander Hybrid
  • RAV4 Hybrid
  • Venza
RAV4 Hybrid and RAV4 Prime in particular are very popular choices for former Prius owners, but both of those models are among the Toyota products most affected by the ongoing semiconductor device shortage. Selling prices for used RAV4 Hybrids in June 2021 actually exceeded the original MSRP when new according to iseecars.

 

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Wow - in your 40's - that's awful. If I'm not getting into your business, is it some kind of heredity issue that you had one so young? No need to answer if you don't wish to.
I don’t know my family history…I was adopted as a newborn. I was diagnosed with congestive heart failure after the stroke which I was probably born with so no one should worry that it’ll happen to them…it’s just luck of the draw. I see my stroke/hf as being chosen by the claw on Toy Story lol
 

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I don’t know my family history…I was adopted as a newborn. I was diagnosed with congestive heart failure after the stroke which I was probably born with so no one should worry that it’ll happen to them…it’s just luck of the draw. I see my stroke/hf as being chosen by the claw on Toy Story lol
That sucks, in many ways. Have you gotten a second opinions? I was dx with congestive heart failure January 2020, with no family history no symptoms no nothin. By the time the cardiology and vascualr departments finished putting the scare into my wife and me we were pretty wigged out. My EKGs have always been normal. After a normal EKG the doc wanted me to wear a 24/7 monitor for a month. The gal who'd run the EKG said, "Why? His test is normal." Doc had his own priorites.
I tolerated it for three weeks, it was a yooj PITA. Nothing irregular was found.

I went for a second opinion, EKG normal then they scheduled the camera up the leg without even consulting me. I fired that doc too.

I just had an cardiac ultrasound and the test came back NL, normal. I believe the first doc was practicing medicine by billables. He had me on death's door, I'd exercised my whole life and had absolutely no symptoms. My PCP and another specialist told me "You don't look like a heart failure patient."

A second opinion won't hurt. Unfortunately my second opinion was a quack, the third place I visited had the normal result. Not all docs are honest, or even competent. Just like every other business and profession.

Best of luck with all that. Stroke is about as scary as it gets.
 
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Thanks for the advice but yeah, they’re sure. I have an excellent hf team and have had it all… echocardiogram, coronary angiogram etc. my EF (heart pumping) is 29% which is not great (but 55-70% is normal). But I don’t want a car forum turned into a morbid discussion so no further comments please. But thanks again
 

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How did I miss this thread!
- Oh, I know, I was driving 300 miles, straight North to "The Land of Trolls" that live under the bridge (Mackinaw).

Toyota is launching an EV sub brand...with the first model due in about a year...I don't get the premise of this article at all.

It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out for sure. I think a lot of people are basing their BEV knowledge off of nerdy science project cars like the Leaf, that take hours to charge and look, well, nerdy. I bet perceptions change quickly, especially as high end makes start coming out with desirable, non-science project BEV's.
You mean the vehicles that exist today!? Blasphemy!

The market is global. The US is just one data point.
Where almost all the money is made, but yeah.........

No doubt...its not a looker, but the point is that it exists contrary to the point of the article.

The article would've been relevant 2-3 years ago, but Toyota slid their plans 5 years to the left to line up with what everyone else was doing.
AND where was GM 2-3 years ago!?......

I was a mere 5 years ago that GM "boldly" decided to make an EV version of the Chevy Sonic!

But yeah, Toyota is WAY BEHIND gm!


It is not contrary to the point of the article. The article is talking about a cohesive BEV program like VW or GM's. Your article discusses one vehicle and makes no mention of an overall bigger program, one BEV vehicle neither proves nor disproves an overall larger BEV initiative at Toyota.
Toyota has dominated the Hybrid market for 25 years, "the leap" for them is far shorter than most others, just because they didn't "jump first" doesn't make them behind.

And if we want to talk about being "cohesive" should the fact almost all of GM's profits come from large V8 gas-burning Trucks and SUV's.

Why so late in the game vs. GM/VW? Why is Toyota lobbying to slow down the adaption of BEV?
Maybe they know more than GM/VW, it's still about making money, right?

Toyota is generally conservative in investing in baseline technology changes until the business case is somewhat proven. Starting in 2017 they made it clear they weren't on the BEV fast track and doubted it would become the market leading technology anytime soon. Throughout 2020 Akio Toyoda bashed BEV technology in the press with articles such as this:

They have the resources to catch up, but will be reluctant to throw out hybrid technology they have developed (unlike GM who threw out the Voltec hybrid technology in a heartbeat).
GM under-utilized and ultimately abandoned Voltec because it was unprofitable.

  • Who thinks Toyota is losing money on their hybrids?
  • Who thinks GM is making money on the Bolt?
 

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I'm all for electrification...don't get me wrong, it's just that there is an intermediate step in cutting over that GM is completely skipping. As a direct result of this skip and hard cutover they're letting their ICE lineup whither and die while we wait for those supposed superior EVs out of "gm".

Meanwhile Toyota will have solid products in all 3 "segments": ICE, Hybrids, EVs...but somehow Toyota is in the wrong right now in 2021...makes no sense to me.
 

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I'm all for electrification...don't get me wrong, it's just that there is an intermediate step in cutting over that GM is completely skipping. As a direct result of this skip and hard cutover they're letting their ICE lineup whither and die while we wait for those supposed superior EVs out of "gm".

Meanwhile Toyota will have solid products in all 3 "segments": ICE, Hybrids, EVs...but somehow Toyota is in the wrong right now in 2021...makes no sense to me.
IMO the one who is wrong is gm for the very reason(s) you stated. Ignoring what they already have etc., etc.
 

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IMO the one who is wrong is gm for the very reason(s) you stated. Ignoring what they already have etc., etc.
But they don't care. They're counting on some of that imaginary trillion$ of bucks to bankroll this absurdity. By 2030 we'll be bankrupt and looking very much like Venezuela.
 
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I hope this decision eventually puts Toyota out of business.

I nobody sells them the battery and electric car technology.

Put the screws to them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #76 ·
How did I miss this thread!
- Oh, I know, I was driving 300 miles, straight North to "The Land of Trolls" that live under the bridge (Mackinaw).






You mean the vehicles that exist today!? Blasphemy!



Where almost all the money is made, but yeah.........



AND where was GM 2-3 years ago!?......

I was a mere 5 years ago that GM "boldly" decided to make an EV version of the Chevy Sonic!

But yeah, Toyota is WAY BEHIND gm!




Toyota has dominated the Hybrid market for 25 years, "the leap" for them is far shorter than most others, just because they didn't "jump first" doesn't make them behind.

And if we want to talk about being "cohesive" should the fact almost all of GM's profits come from large V8 gas-burning Trucks and SUV's.




Maybe they know more than GM/VW, it's still about making money, right?



GM under-utilized and ultimately abandoned Voltec because it was unprofitable.

  • Who thinks Toyota is losing money on their hybrids?
  • Who thinks GM is making money on the Bolt?
That sounds like GM-of-old-think "we've been best for 25 years, therefore we'll be best for the next 25"

I've acknowledged that they've been in the lead several times. I also said several times this is not the BIG event that will take them under. My question is they have the tech and have been way ahead of everyone for 25 years, so why aren't they way ahead of everyone in BEV and just not in with the rest of the pack? Why are they letting everyone catch up to them? What would you be saying if this were GM? I suspect you'd not be sitting back and saying GM has taken the best approach.
 

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IMO, there's a problem here for Toyota that's not directly connected to the timeline of EV adoption. Toyota is already seen by many young(er) buyers as their parents' brand. Toyota has the oldest buyers of any mainstream brand. Being late to EVs reinforces that "old man's/woman's car" image in the eyes of a lot of younger buyers. That, I think, is the real risk for Toyota here. It's one of image (with potentially big long term consequences) and not of near-term sales.
Yes. And Toyota knows that. That's why they created Scion — affordable, "exciting" cars with a no-haggle price.
It really didn't attract the so-caleld younger buyers.
In fact, it attracted older buyers who knew it was a Toyota and wanted a more affordable car.

Toyota sells on its (well deserved) reputation for high-quality, nearly bulletproof cars.
So long as they don't damage that reputation, Toyota will do just fine.

But they do need to have a workable EV strategy they can execute in a realistic timeframe; otherwise, they'll be seen as not only their "parents brand" but seen as out of step.
 

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That sounds like GM-of-old-think "we've been best for 25 years, therefore we'll be best for the next 25"

I've acknowledged that they've been in the lead several times. I also said several times this is not the BIG event that will take them under. My question is they have the tech and have been way ahead of everyone for 25 years, so why aren't they way ahead of everyone in BEV and just not in with the rest of the pack? Why are they letting everyone catch up to them? What would you be saying if this were GM? I suspect you'd not be sitting back and saying GM has taken the best approach.
Maybe Toyota is so far ahead, they know it's a good time to wait?..............


I mean even GM has just recently stepped-up their EV push, the Volt came out almost 10 years ago, today GM has the Bolt........... Sure GM has things we know about in the pipe, everyone knows the ICE slice of the pie is going to be a lot bigger for a long time still.
 

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Discussion Starter · #79 ·
Yes. And Toyota knows that. That's why they created Scion — affordable, "exciting" cars with a no-haggle price.
It really didn't attract the so-caleld younger buyers.
In fact, it attracted older buyers who knew it was a Toyota and wanted a more affordable car.

Toyota sells on its (well deserved) reputation for high-quality, nearly bulletproof cars.
So long as they don't damage that reputation, Toyota will do just fine.

But they do need to have a workable EV strategy they can execute in a realistic timeframe; otherwise, they'll be seen as not only their "parents brand" but seen as out of step.
I did find it interesting with all of those youth oriented vehicles Japan had 10+ years ago (Nissan Cube, Honda Element, Scion lineup) that I almost never saw their target market driving one, almost always old people (just what I saw, not a shred of "scientific poling" in my comment :)). Does anyone know if these cars sold well with young folks in Japan?

Toyota will be interesting to follow over the next 25 years as their customer base continues to age. They certainly aren't going anywhere anytime soon - an immensely rich company with investments in a lot of other companies that do attract younger people - like Subaru. And I have seen more young people stepping out of a Camry than I have in a long time, and I'll say something I've never said in my life - "the Camry has the best styling in the segment". But, their customer base IS aging last I heard, never a good sign, and regarding BEV, they are giving away their industry leadership they enjoy with hybrids to being "just one of the crowd". Certainly not a company killer, but "industry leader" is almost always a stronger position to sell from than "just one of the crowd".
 

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Discussion Starter · #80 ·
Maybe Toyota is so far ahead, they know it's a good time to wait?..............


I mean even GM has just recently stepped-up their EV push, the Volt came out almost 10 years ago, today GM has the Bolt........... Sure GM has things we know about in the pipe, everyone knows the ICE slice of the pie is going to be a lot bigger for a long time still.
All true, they do believe BEV is NOT the way to go. However, they tried to lead the industry to their way, but the industry and governments aren't biting. Maybe hybrids is still the best approach, but, governments are legislating BEV into existence...
 
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