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Toyota vs. GM: Not angels vs. Satan

15K views 109 replies 55 participants last post by  kenmi  
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Toyota vs. GM: Not Angels vs. Satan
By Peter Brown
Automotive News / June 27, 2005

Let's talk about a special kind of bigotry.

The globe-trotting New York Times columnist Thomas Friedman wants General Motors to go bankrupt and Toyota to run things.

Why? Toyota sells hybrid cars, which Friedman argues will save the world from the disaster caused by the deplorable GM.

His argument is a pure expression of anti-American, pro-Anybody Else nonsense. It's a romantic fantasy that "those others" are on the side of the angels, while our guys are a bunch of dunderheads.

Check your data, Tom. Toyota is doubling the size of its V-8 engine plant in Alabama to make 300,000 big V-8s for the huge new pickups to be assembled in Texas. And Toyota already has a lineup of heavy, gas-guzzling trucks and SUVs (Land Cruiser, LX 470, Sequoia, GX 470, 4Runner, made chiefly in Japan) that is more than a match for GM or any other automaker, domestic or import.

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Here's what Friedman wrote: "If I am rooting for General Motors to go bankrupt and be bought out by Toyota, does that make me a bad person?

"... Having Toyota take over General Motors - which based its business strategy on building gas-guzzling cars, including the idiot Hummer, scoffing at hybrid technology and fighting congressional efforts to impose higher mileage standards on U.S. automakers - would not only be in America's economic interest, it would also be in America's geopolitical interest."

With the angels or Satan?

Friedman argues that hybrids with electric-vehicle plug-ins (which nobody offers) added to ethanol burners (which GM and others offer) could end up giving us hundreds of miles per gallon of gasoline, thus slowing global warming, cleaning the environment and giving America the energy independence it needs to stop supporting bad regimes.

I presume he thinks it would reduce the need for things like the Iraq invasion - an invasion he supported, by the way.

In fact, America does need a real energy policy to reduce fuel consumption dramatically, and for the reasons Friedman lists.

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But is Toyota on the side of the angels and GM siding with Satan? Come on. They're both just car companies, trying to make a buck by giving customers what they want. That's why Toyota's San Antonio plant will crank out those new Tundra pickups, bigger and heavier than the Tundras they'll replace.

A dozen years ago, GM was caught woefully short of SUVs as it invested heavily in sedans and coupes. Since then, GM has had to catch up to the market by building truck capacity. GM certainly didn't "base its business strategy on building gas-guzzling cars." Where was Friedman when GM took the risk to introduce all-electric cars?

Meanwhile, just like GM, Toyota opposes higher fuel economy standards. In fact, no automaker can substantially beat federal corporate average fuel economy standards. The American marketplace forces every automaker to devote its improvements in efficiency to performance, not to fuel consumption.

Example: Since Toyota started selling its nifty hybrid Prius in 2000, the company's truck CAFE has fluctuated in the range of 21.8 to 22.7 mpg, while Toyota's U.S. truck sales rose from 646,491 in 2000 to 1,005,841 in 2004.

For every pint of gasoline saved by a Prius, several gallons have been burned in high-tonnage Toyota trucks.

Surely GM's leaders have missed the boat on some of what consumers want (just as they missed the early boat on SUVs and minivans), while Toyota continues skillfully to increase sales in America, largely by selling more trucks.

And GM has plenty of fuel-efficient models. What GM needs is more cars that buyers crave. Some of those models will be hybrids.

Friedman's column made me recall a conversation I had with a Sierra Club official in Washington some years ago. The Sierra Club fellow excoriated all the domestic automakers for their terrible fuel economy (which then, as now, was exactly what the law allowed).

How about the Germans, I asked.

Uh, the Germans, he said, pausing, "use better technology."

Actually, that's not true. BMW and Mercedes-Benz simply have paid the fines for failing to meet CAFE and gas-guzzler laws. The U.S. Big 3 always have met those laws, even when they could have earned more profit in flouting them.

This is not to criticize Toyota or to let GM off the hook. They're all battling for customers and dollars, and Toyota is doing it better. But the reflexive anti-U.S. bias is based on a fantasy of the virtues of the lesser-known.

No, Thomas Friedman is not a bad person. But when he parachutes into this debate, he should spend more time on the ground. His romantic idealization of Toyota might hurt somebody.

Link: http://www.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=53608

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#3 ·
gm's response:

Wrong on GM – and its Drive for Fuel Efficiency
Detroit Free Press

By Thomas J. Kowaleski (Opinion)

Vice President, Global Communications, General Motors Corp.

June 24, 2005

In a column on Tuesday, Thomas Friedman asked: “If I am rooting for General Motors to go bankrupt … does that make me a bad person?” Well, he’s certainly a misinformed one (“If Toyota could buy out GM … maybe America’s addiction to oil would drop as fuel-efficient cars roll in”).

Friedman suggested that America’s economy would benefit if GM were taken over by a foreign automaker that aggressively promotes hybrid cars. He didn’t mention that the Japanese automaker he praises has grown largely from aggressively expanding its sales of trucks, not hybrids.

GM has a clear, sound strategy to improve fuel efficiency and develop advanced technology. Our track record on fuel economy speaks for itself: GM today produces the most fuel-efficient cars and trucks in the industry. According to 2005 EPA data, GM is the fuel economy leader in 69 of 119 car and truck offerings. Among these offerings are 20 GM vehicles that get 30 or more miles per gallon in highway driving –more than any other manufacturer, foreign or domestic.

GM has a comprehensive near-, mid- and long-term technology development strategy. And it's playing out with results. Today, we use several advanced technologies to achieve our fuel efficiency leadership. In the mid-term, we see an increasing role for hybrids. GM’s hybrid program is focused first on the vehicles that consume the most fuel, such as transit buses, pickups and SUVs.

Today there are 354 buses with GM’s advanced hybrid technology operating in 24 cities across the United States and Canada. In Seattle, where 213 GM hybrid-powered buses have been operating for nearly a year, the King County Transit Authority is reporting a fuel economy improvement of 55 percent.

GM also has been selling the world’s first full-size hybrid pickups for more than a year. And GM will introduce two new hybrid systems in the next two years. The first will be introduced in the Saturn VUE in 2006 and the Chevy Malibu in 2007. Aimed primarily at small and midsize vehicles, this system will increase fuel efficiency by at least 10 percent.

The second is a new, advanced, two-mode, full hybrid system, which will be available on GM’s new full-size SUVs in 2007 and pickups in 2008. It will deliver a 25 percent improvement in fuel economy.

Sales of hybrids represented less than one-half of 1 percent of this nation’s total vehicle sales last year. But as sales slowly build, GM has aggressive plans to offer more hybrid vehicles across much of our product line over that period. If and when the demand for hybrids increases significantly, GM will be ready.

For the long-term, GM is leading the charge to once and for all take the automobile out of the environmental debate by advancing the ultimate clean alternative to the internal combustion engine: the hydrogen fuel cell.

As we work hard to develop an affordable fuel-cell vehicle for consumers, we already have several projects under way to utilize the technology.

GM and the U.S. Army have joined to introduce the world’s first fuel-cell-powered truck for military service. GM also is working with the U.S. Department of Energy to build 40 fuel-cell vehicles for demonstration fleets in Washington D.C., New York, California and Michigan.

We welcome the scrutiny that comes with being the world's largest automaker. But the millions of people whose livelihoods depend on GM object when facts are skewed to paint an inaccurate portrait of our company.

We take our commitment to this nation, its people, environment and economy very seriously .
 
#5 ·
I'm a fan of both GM and Toyota.

Toyota has the press behind them, GM has them against them.

In terms of quality, GM and Toyota are typically neck and neck. Lexus is usually at the top, but Caddy and Buick typically are right under them. At that point the differences in quality is statistically insignificant concerning objective things. Yet, the press never celebrates GM even when in a statistical tie with Toyota. But who said journalist were fair?

Lastly, as much as I like Toyota I actually feel Honda has better refinement, better engineering, and is equally as innovative. They are also "greener", the greenest of all car companies actually. Yet the press paint Toyota as the green one. As usual, they are more interested in a good story than the truth.

All are good companies. Too bad we can't read about them minus the spin.
 
#6 ·
Car companies are going to build what makes money. They are not good and bad people. Toyota doesn't build prius to be good, they build it to make them look good so more people buy tundras. Just like they don't raise their prices to help domestics, they raise prices to make more money.
 
#9 ·
BMW and Mercedes-Benz simply have paid the fines for failing to meet CAFE and gas-guzzler laws. The U.S. Big 3 always have met those laws, even when they could have earned more profit in flouting them.
THANK YOU! I'm glad somebody finally called this out. So many people seem to think that Germans build stupendously efficient engines. Well just because the same horses from less c.u. than U.S. engines doesn't mean they get better mileage, since they all have have 9 friggin valves per cylinder.
 
#10 ·
Today there are 354 buses with GM’s advanced hybrid technology operating in 24 cities across the United States and Canada. In Seattle, where 213 GM hybrid-powered buses have been operating for nearly a year, the King County Transit Authority is reporting a fuel economy improvement of 55 percent.
Holy-freakin-crap! Can we get some of those in LA please!!??
 
#12 ·
Yeah, but I saw a Toyota commercial that said Toyota trucks get the best mileage in their class. Therefore, I can only reason that GM is not trying hard because they are fat and lazy. Toyota? They're angels among men. Just ask them.
 
#13 ·
johnny smallblock said:
Toyota? They're angels among men. Just ask them.
You hit the nail on the head! Toyota PR people are Godlike in their abilities. That is why they have such a squeaky clean reputation. Conversely GM doesn't seem to be very good at tooting their own horn. They seem to be finally realizing this, but they got a long way to go to match Toyota PR.
 
#14 ·
Sorry guys, but GM is NOT neck-and-neck with Toyota in quality. This is why:

1. Most of the GMs that rate high are typically driven by the blue-haired crowd; of course Buick is going to rate high. I remember GM touting Cadillac of the early nineties as "quality" because it rated high on J.D. Power. Well I don't think many would argue that Cadillac of the early nineties defines "quality". Time has shown that era of Cadillac to be quite the opposite.

2. Pretty much anyone you talk to with a Toyota, new or old, LOVES it. He/she is typically amazed at how it "keeps on going", how "I've only had to do brake pads on it", and how it's "the best car I've ever had".

3. Talk to a few GM owners of the last 5-10 years, and you get mixed results. A few will say "Yeah, I must have gotten a lemon", a few will say "It's not the greatest, but I got a good deal", and a few will love it.

If you want a clear picture on how Toyota owners like their vehicles compared to GM owners, go to www.carsurvey.org. Virtually ALL Toyota owners love their vehicles; however, about a third of GM owners rate their vehicle with a "sad" face, often saying that they'd never, ever buy GM or American ever again. And these ratings are from the last five years! Check out Malibu, Trailblazer, and Venture ratings especially - LEMOOOONS!
 
#15 ·
Yes, and along with Friedman and Arianna Huffington, hybrids will "save us all".
 
#21 · (Edited)
driverblogger said:
I have never heard of a Toyota lemon.
Actually, I have - though they are few and far between (oddly, the most Toyota "lemons" seem to be Siennas and Camrys - they sometimes get sludge in their engines).

But as I said, I am getting sick of hearing everyone say "Oh don't by a Malibu (or Trailblazer, or Sunfire) because I know so-and-so who bought on and it's ALWAYS in the shop", while hearing "I know so-and-so who has 420,000 kms on his Toyota, and has only had to do routine maintenence!"

To be fair, I do hear about many good experiences with Astros and Cavaliers (many go 3-400,000 kms) but there are also too many bad experiences to counter it.

GM is always saying "WE'RE QUALITY NOW, GIVE US ANOTHER CHANCE". But they need about ten years of good quality to shake the rep. As it is, they haven't really proven squat; they just expect people to come running back because of a JD Power survey, which means nothing.

Toyota and Honda had to go through that sort of scrutiny before people trusted them, and it took about a decade. GM can't expect a free ride, especially when almost everyone has had, or knows someone who has had, a very bad experience with a GM vehicle. I don't know why GM feels entitled to be taken seriously when they declare that they are "high quality". Again, JD means almost nothing.
 
#23 ·
very good article... doesn't make GM the angel either, which is important since they aren't, but doesn't deny them their good side. Gm and Toyota are both companies, with good points and bad points. as a company, i have the greatest repsect for toyota's quality, PR capabilites, and well earned financial success. GM, however, has the potential to match those abilities AND make great cars in both appliance and enthusiast forms.
 
#24 ·
driverblogger said:
I have never heard of a Toyota lemon.
Uhh, according to J.D. Power, your Scion is probably one of them. Scion recently ranked near the bottom of J.D. Power's initial quality survey.

You need to get edu-mucated before you put fingers to keyboard.
 
#25 ·
RWD60 said:
as a company, i have the greatest repsect for toyota's quality, PR capabilites, and well earned financial success. GM, however, has the potential to match those abilities AND make great cars in both appliance and enthusiast forms.
*nods*

Yes, yes GM does. Let's hope they realize and utilize that potential to its fullest ... before it gets too much later.


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