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DETROIT (Reuters) - For the first time, Toyota Motor Corp. (Tokyo:7203.T - News) gained the title of world's second-largest automaker in the third quarter, as it outsold Ford Motor Co. (NYSE:F - News) by 166,000 vehicles.

While Ford still holds the year-to-date sales lead by a slim margin, its forecast of lower fourth-quarter production might make it possible for Toyota to claim the title for all of 2003.

According to data from Toyota's financial results, it sold 1,576,000 vehicles worldwide in the third quarter, while Ford sold 1,410,000. Toyota's sales included its Hino and Daihatsu units, while Ford's sales included its foreign luxury brands -- Volvo, Jaguar, Land Rover and Aston Martin.

For the first nine months of 2003, Ford still ranks as the world's second-largest automaker with a lead of about 26,000 vehicles, with 4,844,000 sold compared to Toyota's 4,818,000. Both are well behind General Motors Corp., (NYSE:GM - News) the world's largest automaker, which sold 6.4 million vehicles in the same period.

Full Story HERE
 

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its the begining of the end folks...
 

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it really hurts to read this and even lutz said that he predicts toyota to one day become the #1 seller.

Lets hope that in the next 2 years, the 500 and Futura (or whatever that car is) helps for boost sales greatly. I hope General Motors can retain the top spot for ever!

:(
 

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I'm saddened too.

Ford is to Chevy, FMC is to GM, what the Raiders are to the Chiefs, the Bears are to the Packers, what the Red Sox are to the Yankees, what the Maple Leafs are to the Canadiens, what Argentina is to Brazil. Those rivalries wouldn't be the same without the other, and the products would not be as good without those rivalries.

There's still plenty of units, plenty of volume, and plenty of ways that the foreign competition can be beaten back to its own shores. Ford, with its Focus and Mazda6 platforms, should have some competitive products. I only hope that they take aim at Toyota, Honda, and Volkswagen the same way, through quality and "perceived quality," that GM has, so that they can regain their market share, rather than cannibalizing the domestic quotient. If GM can make a superior product, Ford should be able to learn and follow suit.

Gorsh. I was never impressed, but with this gloomy music (Cradle of Filth, Cruelty and the Beast) and this news, I really hope the new Mustang can bring some of the Japanese and German sports car/sedan back to our shores.

I recently posted a thread on AOL's NFL thread that the Raiders/Chiefs rivalry would be nothing without the other, and, though I'm a Chiefs, and GM, fan, I'd rather lose sales to an SVT Cobra than a freakin' VTEC or *shudder* a 1.8T, to "the next" F-150 rather than a phrizekin so-called "Titan."

Glorious warrior hails to our blood enemies of Dearborn.

Ghrankenstein
 

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Back when there were American-based manufacturers, I could see these arguments. There was a time (40-50 years ago) when America had an automotive industry. In addition to GM, Ford, and Chrysler, there was Studebaker, Hudson (no relation), Nash, Packard, Frazer, Kaiser, etc. Today, there's GM and Ford. You can't expect these two companies to hold off all threats from some of the largest and best-run companies on the planet. There are currently about six major car companies in the world (GM, Ford, Toyota, VW, DCX, Renault/Nissan, in that order) with another five major "minors" (PSA, Honda, Hyundai/Kia, Fiat, and BMW). With all this competition, mostly from other countries, you can't expect GM and Ford to remain at the top of the pecking order forever.

Toyota is a fine company making good products. I have no problem with in the top three, two, or sitting at the top. This is a well-run company who has grown by producing what people want to buy and not by absorbing a bunch of other manufacturers (they have acquired Daihatsu and Hino, but that's been decades in the making).
 

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I think that it is a very sad day for America. The two greatest American companies should be the #1 and #2 automakers, not some forgein crap. I just hope that GM will stay on top forever, and Ford and #2. Truely a Sad day for America. :(
 

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It's even sadder when you realize that it's Americans doing this to themselves.
 

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Ford may be down for that two-quarter period, but I suspect that with the introduction of the new F150, and a slew of new models within the next 12-18 months, Ford will hold Toyota off. The margin by which Toyota took the #2 spot was only 43,000 units, which really isn't much at all in the automotive industry. Certainly a wake-up call, but not something that "signals the end" or anything like that. If by this time next year Toyota is still at #2, then maybe we should be concerned.
 

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If you want to see a microcosm of the whole Ford vs. Toyota problem, go look at Toyota's all-new Sienna, then go look at Ford's all-new FreeStar. The Sienna--fresh, innovative, solid; the FreeStar--looks like it came straight out of 1995.

It's almost sickening that Ford fielded such a pathetic response to the Sienna in a must-win vehicle category. I'm also really ticked off at how they're letting Lincoln flounder with no real direction or identity. Here they have a legendary marque right under their nose with a long and proud history and a hard-earned reputation--and what is their brilliant plan for reviving that great name? Why, buying Jaguar and Volvo of course. :blink:

Sure, GM is not completely free of its doldrums and missteps, but we all know that there are very clear signs of renaissance among GM brands. Most auto analysts agree that GM is on the right track and that the future looks bright.

Ford needs a Bob Lutz very, very badly, or there will be a Ford in no one's future. This sucks.

Let's hope Ford doesn't end up like Chrysler. Just think of it: "ToyotaFord". :pain:
 
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Well, you know folks, when I glance over at an '04 Camry and '04 Accord at the stop light, I can't help but yawn. I am not sure how those people stay awake while driving those things.

I read an aticle in 'Industry Week' by one of the qulity gurus, Dr. Joseph Juran, back in the late 80's or early 90's (you remember, that is when we were all panicking aboput the 'Japanese') and the big topic was 're-engineering'. His point was that when American companies improved quality, which it has today, then patriiotism would play a part. Would Americans be patriotic enough to purchase the American products? Today I don't see the patriotism. Nothing makes me more cynical than seeing someone driving a brand new Volvo, with the temporary plate, and the little American flag sticker on the back. They were so guilty about buying the Volvo they had to put a sticker on the back of their car. I'm sorry folks, but patriotism is much more than putting a sticker on your car and feeling good about yourself. Although, it's a start...

I do see style returning to Detroit. And the $64,000 question IS, WILL the American consumer respond to style, in addition to quality?

Toyota and Honda HAVE changed the auto industry, but I believe America has responded.

Passionate design and quality will bring back the American consumer.

This (the Amercican) market is the largest market on earth. Everyone is targeting our dollars, our power is what we do with those dollars.
 
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I'm sorry 'coolcaddy' but when I see any Toyota product I see, 'wimpy', 'no substance', 'tinny', 'plastic'. Need I go on ?

Toyota has built a reputation, and they can afford to cut corners now. Quality and fuel milage were how Toyota and Honda reeled us in. The quality gap is gone, and very few people speak about fuel mileage anymore.

I honestly don't see what people see in the new RAV 4, or Infiniti's. 10-15 years ago, I understood what people saw in 'em. Today, no.
 

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I wonder why I do not see more Mazda6s on the road?
That has to be the sexiest compact 4-door on the road.
And with 220-hp it is not necessarily a slouch. Weird.

That is what I want to replace the wife's Grand Am with
in another year or two. I need to see the new Malibu in
person because the pictures do not look too great. :(
 

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Originally posted by thehemi@Nov 11 2003, 09:26 PM
I wonder why I do not see more Mazda6s on the road?
That has to be the sexiest compact 4-door on the road.
And with 220-hp it is not necessarily a slouch. Weird.

That is what I want to replace the wife's Grand Am with
in another year or two. I need to see the new Malibu in
person because the pictures do not look too great. :(
I think the Mazda6 is only in limited shipments to the US right now. I really like the look and feel of that car, though I'm waiting for an AWD version (I loath FWD). It's a good platform for Ford to build from, and I'm certainly looking forward to what Ford can do with it.

As for the Malibu, I'm not a huge fan of the styling, but I haven't seen one in person either. Maybe it will grow on me, like the Focus did. But I dunno.
 
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'the hemi' - I've seen the new Malibu at a local dealership. It's solid. But decide for yourself. Interior and exterior materials are nice.
 

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To the New Mexico guy.... I know what you mean by seeing an American flag on a foreign car making you sick. A guy down the street owns a Kia with the American flag painted on the hood. Almost made me stop right there to bitch him out. After 8+ years at Ford I was just let go because of cuts... Hence seeing that flag really made me mad..

As for Ford rebounding soon, I think it will be at least a couple of years before you see a rebound. They still have some quality issues to solve and people will have to wait until 05MY for the new products to take place.... F150 is a sweet truck, I just hope they keep the recalls to a min.

Right now I think they spend to much time and money on how to save money then they do designing good quality products. Just my thoughts.
 

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Well, you know folks, when I glance over at an '04 Camry and '04 Accord at the stop light, I can't help but yawn. I am not sure how those people stay awake while driving those things.


I totally agree with this. I cant believe that people will buy cars that look that boring. They only buy them because there Toyota or Honda, not because of the engine or anything that is important to a real man. Did u guys see the new Grand Prix commerical. It has a Lancer on and it says "what would ever drive a man to drive that" I LOVE IT. Real men drive real cars, ones that are made in America and ones that are from GM.
 
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