[mgescuro]

Toyota Engineers After Tesla Model Y Teardown: "A Work Of Art"

Toyota is the world's largest automaker, and it builds pretty much every type of vehicle you can think of. But if there's one area it is lagging behind, it's electric cars.


The Japanese automaker sold only 24,466 BEVs worldwide last year, which is a drop in the ocean compared to the 2.6 million hybrids it sold during the same period – or the 1.3 million electric vehicles delivered by global EV leader Tesla in 2022.

Still, Toyota is determined to catch up. After the recently announced executive reshuffle effective April 1, which will see CEO Akio Toyoda replaced by former Lexus head Koji Sato, Toyota has pledged to revamp its EV strategy by accelerating the EV rollout and launching a dedicated BEV architecture by 2026.

In the meantime, Toyota is trying to understand what Tesla is doing right, and its engineers recently conducted a teardown study of the Tesla Model Y, according to a report from Automotive News.

What they found went beyond exposing key technological secrets of the world's best-selling electric vehicle model; engineers were reportedly stunned by the Model Y's simplistic yet efficient vehicle structure built with an advanced manufacturing prowess.

"Taking the skin off the Model Y, it was truly a work of art. It's unbelievable," said one Toyota executive who analyzed the Tesla part by part. They were particularly amazed by how different the latest versions of the Model Y were under the skin compared to earlier versions that looked the same on the outside.

Manufacturing breakthroughs like the use of giga casting to eliminate countless parts and brackets, and the structural battery pack that acts as the car's floor itself were singled out by Toyota engineers.

According to their estimates shared with Automotive News, Tesla's approach eliminated hundreds of parts and up to 220 pounds (100 kilograms), while increasing battery range and slashing overall costs.

One executive said, "It's a whole different manufacturing philosophy," while another added, “We need a new platform designed as a blank-sheet EV." Those are stunning admissions coming from executives of Toyota, a company renowned for its designed-for-manufacturing expertise.

More at Link

 

[mgescuro]

Looks like Toyota, with its management pivot, has finally seen the light.
And that should now be an official warning to all other competitors. The giant is no longer asleep.

They finally figured out what GM and eventually some of the Germans figured out about 3-4 years ago — a blank sheet EV-only platform is the only way to go.

The irony though... the Americans taught the Japanese how to engineer and manufacture something new and different. That's a new one.

 

[tripowergto Jan2003]

Didn't Toyota dissolve its early "partership" with Tesla and sell off all its shares years ago because "Tesla was nothing special underneath its skin"?

 

[mgescuro]

Didn't Toyota dissolve its early "partership" with Tesla and sell off all its shares years ago because "Tesla was nothing special underneath its skin"?

Yes. Same with Daimler.
But Tesla has made significant strides since then.
It's in the article. "They were particularly amazed by how different the latest versions of the Model Y were under the skin compared to earlier versions that looked the same on the outside."

That's Tesla's new giga-casting at work. Driving parts down. Streamlining manufacturing. Increasing efficiencies. That's everything Toyota has spent decades doing on their cars. So for them, it's a game changer.
That also means 5-7 years from now, Toyota may have better ways to do things. And hopefully, so will Tesla.

 

[BlackGTP]

Looks like Toyota, with its management pivot, has finally seen the light.
And that should now be an official warning to all other competitors. The giant is no longer asleep.

They finally figured out what GM and eventually some of the Germans figured out about 3-4 years ago — a blank sheet EV-only platform is the only way to go.

The irony though... the Americans taught the Japanese how to engineer and manufacture something new and different. That's a new one.

I do find this really refreshing after decades of the foreign makes eating Detroit's lunch. Even though Tesla is not "Detroit", it is still American. But to that I do add that GM is way ahead of Toyota on the BEV front as well as GM making quality inroads and can hold their head high in that regard as well.

Nice to see the home teams doing our country proud!

 

[rand49er]

GM had to know that Toyota would get its "ship" turned around and pointed in a different direction. The question is how long can GM maintain its EV lead?

 

[mgescuro]

GM had to know that Toyota would get its "ship" turned around and pointed in a different direction. The question is how long can GM maintain its EV lead?

Well, for a while there, it looked like Toyota had turned into the Old GM — slow, insular thinking.
For all intents and purposes, they are behind every other major manufacturer.

I mean, they actually learned something from Tesla.
They're still a few years off, but it's just a matter of time before Toyota comes back blazing.
They essentially have to come back with their version of GM Ultium, Mercedes MEA, VW MEB and PPE, Ford GE1 — dedicated EV platforms. eTNGA wasn't going to cut it for Toyota.

What this means for Toyota? I dunno. Their global factories are truly global factories. They're going to have to rework their operations and supply chains for this EV specific platform, as well as maintain their TNGA platform for their ICE/HSD/PHEV cars, which I assume they're going to maintain.
For now, their eTNGA cars will have to hold the line for 3-5 years.

 

[09W]

Hmmm.... the entire leading segment seems suspect to me; not sure I'd take it at face value at all.
Highly highly unusual for an OEM to praise a competitor's product like that, especially when lagging the entire rest of the industry by so much.
It could be that toyoter views Tesla as such a minor player volume-wise that they're 'not worried', but it's still suspect.

 

[MisterMe]

Hmmm.... the entire leading segment seems suspect to me; not sure I'd take it at face value at all.
Highly highly unusual for an OEM to praise a competitor's product like that, especially when lagging the entire rest of the industry by so much.
It could be that toyoter views Tesla as such a minor player volume-wise that they're 'not worried', but it's still suspect.

You raise a good question. My take is that Toyota is engaging is a new variation of digital-age advertising. Everyone knows that Toyota has dug a deep hole for itself. Toyota knows that everyone knows that its has dug a deep hole for itself. The only thing that it can do by lying is to dig that hole even deeper. By praising Tesla, Toyota leads many opinion makers to believe that seen the light and will follow Tesla's lead. That said, Toyota has given no indication how far back it intends to trot behind Tesla.

 

[Link2877]

Well, for a while there, it looked like Toyota had turned into the Old GM — slow, insular thinking.
For all intents and purposes, they are behind every other major manufacturer.

I mean, they actually learned something from Tesla.
They're still a few years off, but it's just a matter of time before Toyota comes back blazing.
They essentially have to come back with their version of GM Ultium, Mercedes MEA, VW MEB and PPE, Ford GE1 — dedicated EV platforms. eTNGA wasn't going to cut it for Toyota.

What this means for Toyota? I dunno. Their global factories are truly global factories. They're going to have to rework their operations and supply chains for this EV specific platform, as well as maintain their TNGA platform for their ICE/HSD/PHEV cars, which I assume they're going to maintain.
For now, their eTNGA cars will have to hold the line for 3-5 years.

The main problem they're not gonna be able to get away from though. Is the fact that by the time Toyota gets it's first gen platform out. Everyone else (GM included) will be moving on to it's second generations. So it's not just a problem of caughting up to everyone else, it's a problem of catching up and surpassing everyone else at the same time. Which I personally don't think they have it in them to do anymore. This isn't the 70s and 80s bubble economy anymore. I think they'll catch up alright, but I feel the days of Japan being a tech leader are increasingly behind them. We'll see though.

 

[wallus13]

This article just highlights how incredibly far behind Toyota is.

 

[Captain Chaos]

Poor Toyota. So far behind indeed, a two to three year waiting list for their incredibly behind the times RAV4 prime when I was PHEV shopping. Everything else they had was pretty much sold out and order only (wait list) What did they ever do before dissecting a Tesla? I’m sure they’d be bankrupt in no time if they hadn’t. Funny to think of reality for a moment of which vehicle is absolutely tanking in used values right now…..it isn’t Toyota.

 

[BlackGTP]

The main problem they're not gonna be able to get away from though. Is the fact that by the time Toyota gets it's first gen platform out. Everyone else (GM included) will be moving on to it's second generations. So it's not just a problem of caughting up to everyone else, it's a problem of catching up and surpassing everyone else at the same time. Which I personally don't think they have it in them to do anymore. This isn't the 70s and 80s bubble economy anymore. I think they'll catch up alright, but I feel the days of Japan being a tech leader are increasingly behind them. We'll see though.

I've mentioned this before, even though Toyota trashed their "green" image, it is still a secondary image, their primary image is quality. Toyota has achieved this quality reputation via "time" - they don't introduce new platforms very often; they refine what they have over decades. I've observed that most new tech is launched in Japan, refined & bugs worked out, and then goes on sale overseas years later. So now they are way behind the eight ball. What is that going to force them to do? I'll tell you - rush designs, engineering, building new plants or production lines. Then add to this possibly new production methods as learned from Tesla. This is a recipe for quality problems and why GM is taking their Ultium launch seriously and going painfully slow. Toyota has no luxury of time.

Toyota spent too much time trying to protect its investment in hybrid tech, damaged its green image and left itself exposed to the next gen tech (BEV). As the green leader, Toyota should've been launching their BEV's a decade ago and could've then followed their normal, "time-based" product cadence that fosters quality.

 

[62Lincoln]

Poor Toyota. So far behind indeed, a two to three year waiting list for their incredibly behind the times RAV4 prime when I was PHEV shopping. Everything else they had was pretty much sold out and order only (wait list) What did they ever do before dissecting a Tesla? I’m sure they’d be bankrupt in no time if they hadn’t. Funny to think of reality for a moment of which vehicle is absolutely tanking in used values right now…..it isn’t Toyota.

Shhhh! Don't disturb the echo chamber here at GMI with the reality in the marketplace.

 

[Mentat Bashar]

The single-piece casting is simply a work of engineering art. Well done.

 

[tripowergto Jan2003]

So... dissecting an underwhelming Model Y suddenly awakens the sleeping giant? Sounds like a marketing pivot to me.

 

[09W]

Toyoter’s quality rep is already heavily damaged, tho perception trails reality. Far, far too many recalls for substandard quality & engineering in the last 15 years. I imagine the pattern will continue with any (eventual) BE’s.

 

[BlackGTP]

Shhhh! Don't disturb the echo chamber here at GMI with the reality in the marketplace.

No one is saying Toyota is going out of business. But it certainly looks like they've made some huge missteps that might knock them off their pedestal a little. I see this as we might be seeing history unfold, but not a given. The echo chamber is looking at what tomorrow might bring, not what today is. Similar reasoning would be like making a comment about GM in the '70s and saying they'd always have 50% market share because they did in that era.

And you say to look at the marketplace - I see Tesla and where most of their customers come from - Japanese makes and Toyota. Each one of those sales (and Tesla's sell for a premium) cost a Japanese make not only a sale, but the loss of a customer willing to pay a lot of $$. Shedding customers with money isn't great business practice to me.

 

[CJH]

So... dissecting an underwhelming Model Y suddenly awakens the sleeping giant? Sounds like a marketing pivot to me.

Yeah, it sounds more like PR/Marketing smoke to me. What they are saying publicly, is not what is going on behind closed doors. In reality, we have no idea what they plan moving forward.

Toyoter’s quality rep is already heavily damaged, tho perception trails reality. Far, far too many recalls for substandard quality & engineering in the last 15 years. I imagine the pattern will continue with any (eventual) BE’s.

Nah, everybody has recalls now and then. The reality is, if you ask 95% of the buying public who makes the most dependable vehicles across their lineup, people are going to say Toyota. And EV's are supposed to be more reliable, yet Tesla's scores are mediocre to poor, so who knows....?

 

[tripowergto Jan2003]

And EV's are supposed to be more reliable, yet Tesla's scores are mediocre to poor, so who knows....?

And their EV wheels fall off.