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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
From the recent J D Powers A.P.P.E.A.L survey - that none of the ricer fans want to talk about .......


The 2009 Camry.

In the Midsize Car segment the 2009 Camry ranks #9 out of 17 - exactly in the middle - 8 above and 8 below.

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/performance-and-design-ratings-by-category/midsize-car

Worth noting the 2008 Chevrolet Malibu at #2 overall, and the 2008 Honda Accord at #3.

The 2008 VW Passat is #1 so really the Malibu's second place here is more significant than it appears - given the Dollar-Euro and Dollar-Yen exchange rates and also other important VW Passat volume constrictors.


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It gets worse, much worse, for the all new 2009 Corolla AND Matrix.

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/performance-and-design-ratings-by-category/compact-car

In the 20 nameplate Compact car segment, the Corolla ranks at #15 and the Matrix is right along side at #16.

That showing by the Corolla and Matrix is more surprising than it appears.

Starting with the Corolla, it and the next 4 positions ie number 15 thru 20 earn 2 'dots' out of 5 possible on the overall score.

The bottom five (overall score grouping) are:

#15 Toyota Corolla

#16 Toyota Matrix

#17 Suzuki SX 4

#18 Chevrolet Cobalt

#19 Suzuki Forenza

#20 Pontiac Vibe

Now look at positions #14 thru #1.

Now look at everybodies future MCE schedules.

Now consider these are by far, on a volume basis, the three most important products that Toyota sells in the USA.
 

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Two more numbers to chew on.

Corolla/Matrix- 52,826
Camry- 51,291

Post all the tripe you want- people are buying these cars, and they're buying them without a ton of cash on the hood.
 

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Two more numbers to chew on.

Corolla/Matrix- 52,826
Camry- 51,291

Post all the tripe you want- people are buying these cars, and they're buying them without a ton of cash on the hood.
The same could be said about the Chevrolet Celebrity in the 80s, but GM did just as toyota does now; Assumes people will continue to buy junk as long as it has a certain name on it. This poor showing is a sign of what is to come. toyota is no longer on their game and it is starting to show.
 

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Two more numbers to chew on.

Corolla/Matrix- 52,826
Camry- 51,291

Post all the tripe you want- people are buying these cars, and they're buying them without a ton of cash on the hood.
Let's get a few things straight first,

From the American Heritage Dictionary...

tripe traɪp[trahyp]
–noun
1. the first and second divisions of the stomach of a ruminant, esp. oxen, sheep, or goats, used as food. Compare honeycomb tripe, plain tripe.
2. Each and Every post from Vladimir1978.

The fact that people continue to purchase a lesser product is not surprising, it's called brand inertia. But that only goes so far.

The Appeal ratings are significant because they forecast future demand.

And when the new Corolla ranks right up there at the bottom of the scale, that is not such a good thing.

And for you to loudly shout
without a ton of cash on the hood.
is laughable.
 

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The same could be said about the Chevrolet Celebrity in the 80s, but GM did just as toyota does now; Assumes people will continue to buy junk as long as it has a certain name on it. This poor showing is a sign of what is to come. toyota is no longer on their game and it is starting to show.
Exactly.
 

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... And it's going to keep happening for a while, as it was the case for GM.
That depends.
It's a different market now.
There are several other brands can slide in immediately as direct replacements.

If I can buy a Malibu with better styling, equivalent safety and 10% better fuel economy at a lower price, I just might do that.

Not to mention the Saturn Aura, Honda Accord, or similar offerings from other manufacturers.

That level of competition in the North American market did not exist in 1980.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
#18 Chevrolet Cobalt

#19 Suzuki Forenza

#20 Pontiac Vibe

Heh.
Well, #1 - #14 matter.

Just as important, the Pontiac Vibe is essentially a Toyota product so a fair statement is that three of the bottom five are owned by new Toyota designs.

The key here is the word 'new'

Virtually all Toyota, Lexus, and 3/4s of Scions' automobiles are at sizable risk of going stale between now and 2012 - look at their future product plans - and then look at everybody else.

Then consider their execution - including schedules - the Matrix and Corolla were both at least a year late overall - and one must ask - why - for this level of product ??????

The new Cobalt will be facing this product and is likely to as stellar an effort - or better than the new Malibu and CTS.
 

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That depends.
It's a different market now.
There are several other brands can slide in immediately as direct replacements.

If I can buy a Malibu with better styling, equivalent safety and 10% better fuel economy at a lower price, I just might do that.

Not to mention the Saturn Aura, Honda Accord, or similar offerings from other manufacturers.

That level of competition in the North American market did not exist in 1980.
Ah yes, because they'll want to go GM dealership after the horrible experience they've been having with their cars up until 2005 (and it has yet to be seen if those don't eventually come back - and considering that as a domestic customer you ALWAYS find yourself having to justify your choice in one way or another, that tells you about perception amongst the buying public).

You know that those reliability surveys used to put the Oldsmobile Silhouette
on top of its class? In reality, its reliability is just as piss-poor as its platform siblings (how the heck could it top the foreign minivans of the time, anyhow?), but apparently it didn't matter. I sincerely doubt that the surveys regarding Buick being equal to Lexus in reliability to be any more accurate.

Post 05 you had lemons, which made some owners rage to a point where they made defamation websites, augmenting bad press...

Toyota might have lost the puck for a while, but don't tell me they don't deserve the rep they got. -_-

Malibu is a proof that a superior car and millions in advertising won't bring all the consumers back into the showrooms nearly as quick as you think they will... Albeit it brings a lot, but not enough to be a sales-leading vehicle.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
Two more numbers to chew on.

Corolla/Matrix- 52,826
Camry- 51,291

Post all the tripe you want- people are buying these cars, and they're buying them without a ton of cash on the hood.
No thanks - that would be more than a bit like a defective, unsightly in it's appearance twinkie - past it's expiration date.

Wanna' bet that June's numbers for those four products are not as good as Mays ??

IE, Corolla + Matrix + Camry + Camry Solara ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Yay! At the rate Americans move it will only be another 30 years before GM is on top again!
Within 5 to 10 tops - of when they actually lose it - if at all.
 

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Two more numbers to chew on.

Corolla/Matrix- 52,826
Camry- 51,291

Post all the tripe you want- people are buying these cars, and they're buying them without a ton of cash on the hood.
Interesting. My father in law makes a trip to see our family 4 times a year. Every time at the airport he's rented a car. Usually shows up in a a Malibu or G6 never an import. This time he shows up in a Corolla rental. Makes you wonder all the daily rental space the domestics have been vacating, if the import brands having been filling the void.
 

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Man,
I'm not even going to try to directly quote and respond to half-coherent, judgmental ramblings
that go off the deep end about an Oldsmobile Silhouette.
I'm deeply regretful that you had such a crappy experience with your Oldsmobile.
I'm sure 3+ million oil sludge victims agree with you.

And for you to expect that the 2008 Malibu would instantly shoot to the top of the sales chart in the first year of sales is beyond credulity.

With a comment like that, I've got to ask.... Which Toyota location, marketing firm, dealership or affiliate do you work for?
 

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Got to award this round to plane as usual, with a strong showing by AMERICA 123.

A Prime and Vladimir head back to the locker room to revamp the game plan, and hoping to hit the field in the second half firing on all 2 cylinders. Toyota in the meantime coasts on its reputation, learning nothing from what its hated rival went through not so very long ago, because it didn't happen in Nagoya. Neither did Little Boy, but hey, don't heed history, see how that works for ya. G'ahead.
 

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Interesting. My father in law makes a trip to see our family 4 times a year. Every time at the airport he's rented a car. Usually shows up in a a Malibu or G6 never an import. This time he shows up in a Corolla rental. Makes you wonder all the daily rental space the domestics have been vacating, if the import brands having been filling the void.
I never understood why people complained that GM sold so many cars to rental agencies. It gave people who wouldn't think of owning a GM car the opportunity to drive one and possibly end up liking it. Now people who own GM cars may find that they prefer the foreign rental car over the domestic car they drive.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
Interesting. My father in law makes a trip to see our family 4 times a year. Every time at the airport he's rented a car. Usually shows up in a a Malibu or G6 never an import. This time he shows up in a Corolla rental. Makes you wonder all the daily rental space the domestics have been vacating, if the import brands having been filling the void.
The new 2009 Corolla started off like the current Avenger/Sebring.

You know same sort of thing thing with the Prius and all the other HSD concerning Calender Year 2006 and 2007.

I'd be willing to make a substantial wager that somewhere between 10-25% of Prius sales last year were fleet or commercial or Government sales - that's part of why they cut back the battery production schedule.

The other thing on that is that Toyota missed their internal goal of 1,000,000 Priuses within 10 years by 5 months plus some weeks and days.

Toyota is absolutely fierce about trying to make or exceed internal projections - especially if they are in view of the public - and they will adjust no matter what once they decide a time limit has been missed.
 

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Has anyone here ever bought a car based on "A.P.P.E.A.L." results/rankings? Thank you.

It's cool though.....I'm glad to see the Malibu ranked so high honestly. But I hardly see this as gloom for the Toyota cars.
 
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